Did God approve or disapprove of the Jewish temple?

[Scott Downey]

I always thought that after Adam and Eve died, He let them back into the 'garden of Eden', this would be later called Abraham's Bosom, the place where the righteous saints of God of the OT went when they died. It was still a place of the dead, not heaven, but a place where they received good things, and were ministered to by angels, whereas the wicked who died went to fiery torments.

Even in the OT times, the just, would live by their faith, not of works.

Habakkuk 2:4
“Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.

After Christ came the door was opened for them to enter into heaven, as Christ is the only way to the Father who is in Heaven, no one comes to the Father but by Him, so they had to wait, and did not obtain the promise (eternal life) as they could not be made perfect without us of the New Covenant. But now they are in heaven with Christ. Christ when He ascended, in the heavenly cloud, led the captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.

Hebrews 1
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

 

[quietthinker]

I sort of agree - I don't find every letter of Scripture to be without errors. I am slightly taken aback that, where the prophets seemingly disagree with the history, you side with the history. The prophets seem more reliable to me.

The prophets had lots of failings yet it didn't mean that they were not valuable.
I think of Jonah who did a runner, or Moses who murdered, or Abraham who lied....the list goes on.

It's like the parable Jesus told of the husbands who planted a vineyard and let it out to tenants who mistreated his servants and eventually killed his son. The parable has multiple applications.

It is The Son. we are to use as the litmus test of accuracy and truth. He is the only eyewitness of the Father

 

[quietthinker]

No. The words God declared to His servants the prophets are the truth from God, and are only finished just before the end. It is the interpretation of those words and the teachings of men that has been in error. When Jesus said, "You have heard said...but I say unto you" it is that error of men that He referred to, and; He did so as clarification going forward into the kingdom of God that He would usher in, and the time of God's pouring out His spirit upon all flesh beginning at Pentecost.

Scott, you're a muddled mess when it comes to interpretation!

 

[ScottA]

Scott, you're a muddled mess when it comes to interpretation!

That is because I am not interpreting (which sounds strange and foreign to those who are).

 

[quietthinker]

That is because I am not interpreting (which sounds strange and foreign to those who are).

Kidding yourself re not interpreting keeps you in the self generated delusion.

 

[ScottA]

Kidding yourself re not interpreting keeps you in the self generated delusion.

Obviously you know nothing of how this works, or even comprehend what is written regarding those who are sent...or you would not stand with those who killed the prophets.

 

[Wick Stick]

The prophets had lots of failings yet it didn't mean that they were not valuable.
I think of Jonah who did a runner, or Moses who murdered, or Abraham who lied....the list goes on.

Obviously nobody's behavior is perfect except Jesus, but...

When a prophet is prophesying, they are delivering a message from God. Since it comes from God rather than the prophet, that ought to be infallible. I am fairly sure the early church saw it that way.

 

[quietthinker]

Obviously you know nothing of how this works, or even comprehend what is written regarding those who are sent...or you would not stand with those who killed the prophets.

Your deductions are incorrect as are your charges....a result of self deception!

 

[quietthinker]

Obviously nobody's behavior is perfect except Jesus, but...

When a prophet is prophesying, they are delivering a message from God. Since it comes from God rather than the prophet, that ought to be infallible. I am fairly sure the early church saw it that way.

Ignoring the frail human factor maintains misunderstanding and the inability to join the dots well.

Yes the prophets are delivering a message from God but it's not verbatim....it is filtered through the Prophets current understanding ....and God does not violate the free choice of expression he gives people, even Prophets.

As an example when you communicate with me, you do so through your filters as do I with mine. Nobody, not even God twists your/ my arm to communicate differently. Being aware of this opens the possibility to take another look at HOW we see/ understand. Dismissing it closes the door to any other revelation than what has already been concluded.

Throwing in the words, 'inerrant or infallible' (which by the way are not scriptural if one wants to go down that line) is an attempt to shore up preconceived/ premature conclusions and is designed to stifle any questioning.

 

[ScottA]

Yes the prophets are delivering a message from God but it's not verbatim....it is filtered through the Prophets current understanding

That is not at all true.

In fact you yourself have "filtered" your own "current understanding" to say such a thing--which cannot be substantiated. On the contrary, the word of Christ regarding those who are sent by God, is: "it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you" (Matthew10:20).

You speak against Christ.

 

[quietthinker]

That is not at all true.

In fact you yourself have "filtered" your own "current understanding" to say such a thing--which cannot be substantiated. On the contrary, the word of Christ regarding those who are sent by God, is: "it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you" (Matthew10:20).

You speak against Christ.

Then why are the same events described by different Prophets contradictory?

 

[ScottA]

Then why are the same events described by different Prophets contradictory?

There is no such contradiction. But the language is purposely confuse, in parables and spirit, from the right and from the left.

If you want to give an example, I will explain the specifics.

 

[quietthinker]

There is no such contradiction. But the language is purposely confuse, in parables and spirit, from the right and from the left.

If you want to give an example, I will explain the specifics.

Compare the accounts of 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1

 

[ScottA]

Compare the accounts of 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1

1 Chronicles 21:1
Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 24:1
Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

What is your big claim of contradiction--"and Judah"--or is it the mention of Satan?

Do you not know that Judah is also Israel?

 

[quietthinker]

1 Chronicles 21:1
Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 24:1
Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

What is your big claim of contradiction--"and Judah"--or is it the mention of Satan?

Do you not know that Judah is also Israel?

Do I really need to rub your nose in it Scott? .....you who claim special insight? Your inability to see is astounding!
Look at the highlighted sections of the two verses above and then tell me there is no contradiction.

 

[ScottA]

Do I really need to rub your nose in it Scott? .....you who claim special insight? Your inability to see is astounding!
Look at the highlighted sections of the two verses above and then tell me there is no contradiction.

Oh, I see...you do not believe God's own explanation, saying, "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).

So you blame the scribes and prophets because the raw truth does not agree with your image of God--and then contradict Christ who clarified the matter, saying that it was NOT them who were speaking, but God Himself?

Wow!

 

[quietthinker]

Oh, I see...you do not believe God's own explanation, saying, "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).

So you blame the scribes and prophets because the raw truth does not agree with your image of God--and then contradict Christ who clarified the matter, saying that it was them who were speaking, but God Himself?

Wow!

Your reply is pathetic Scott. You resort to blaming me because I drew your attention to a blatant contradiction.
Your self styled scholarship is not worth a tinkers toss.

 

[David Lamb]

I think the word 'inerrant' is over rated. It is a word men have superimposed on the scriptures.
The fact that Jesus said, 'you have heard said but I say unto you.....' is an indication that what they had heard said was not inerrant as the word is generally perceived and I would ask, where had they hear it said?.....in the scriptures they were familiar with.

But when Jesus said, "You have heard it said," He wasn't referring to the written word of God. For example:

“"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Certainly loving your neighbour is in the Old Testament, but we look in vain for the Old Testament saying, "Hate your enemy."

 

[quietthinker]

But when Jesus said, "You have heard it said," He wasn't referring to the written word of God. For example:

“"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Certainly loving your neighbour is in the Old Testament, but we look in vain for the Old Testament saying, "Hate your enemy."

What's your point David?

 

[David Lamb]

What's your point David?

Sorry for not being clear. You had written: "I think the word 'inerrant' is over rated. It is a word men have superimposed on the scriptures." You then said that Jesus said, "You have heard it said.....", and you went on to say that they had heard it from the Scriptures, and that seemed to be your reason for saying that the word 'inerrant' is overrated. That is why I pointed out that what they heard said was Scripture with additions, and I gave the example:

“"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Hating enemies was not something they had heard from Scripture.

I hope that makes my point a bit clearer, and sorry again for being unclear in the first place.