Did God approve or disapprove of the Jewish temple?

[David in NJ]

But when Jesus said, "You have heard it said," He wasn't referring to the written word of God. For example:

“"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Certainly loving your neighbour is in the Old Testament, but we look in vain for the Old Testament saying, "Hate your enemy."

Good Morning David,

"Hating your enemy" is in OT scirpture - the commandments given to not partake of the evil practices of the surrounding nations.

When God sent Joshua in to take the land being given, God said they are to kill off men women and children from the land.

But do you know why?

 

[David Lamb]

Good Morning David,

"Hating your enemy" is in OT scirpture - the commandments given to not partake of the evil practices of the surrounding nations.

When God sent Joshua in to take the land being given, God said they are to kill off men women and children from the land.

But do you know why?

All I can say is that I did a search for hating your enemy in the OT, and got no hits.

 

[David in NJ]

All I can say is that I did a search for hating your enemy in the OT, and got no hits.

OK, i will take a look also - thank you

 

[Scott Downey]

All I can say is that I did a search for hating your enemy in the OT, and got no hits.

About the strongest possible comparison is this

Psalm 139
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with [a]perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 97

10 You who love the Lord, hate evil!
He preserves the souls of His saints;
He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

The above, I could see OT people comparing hating evil to refer to the people who are evil, as including the wicked worshipers of demonic gods of other nations.

 

[David in NJ]

About the strongest possible comparison is this

Psalm 139
21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with [a]perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.

i took a coffee break and how pleasant to come back and see you posted the truth - ty

 

[David in NJ]

Psalm 97

10 You who love the Lord, hate evil!
He preserves the souls of His saints;
He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

The above, I could see OT people comparing hating evil to refer to the people who are evil, as including the wicked worshipers of demonic gods of other nations.

Thus the reason why God told Joshua to "wipe out the inhabitants of the land for they have defiled themselves and the land"

Remember what God said of the blood of Abel = "his blood cries out to me from the land it was spilt on"

 

[ScottA]

What's your point David?

The point is--you were wrong.

 

[quietthinker]

Sorry for not being clear. You had written: "I think the word 'inerrant' is over rated. It is a word men have superimposed on the scriptures." You then said that Jesus said, "You have heard it said.....", and you went on to say that they had heard it from the Scriptures, and that seemed to be your reason for saying that the word 'inerrant' is overrated. That is why I pointed out that what they heard said was Scripture with additions, and I gave the example:

“"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Hating enemies was not something they had heard from Scripture.

I hope that makes my point a bit clearer, and sorry again for being unclear in the first place.

You were clear enough the first time David. I was curious to see if you had something else in mind. Yes, Jesus was referencing what they had heard, no doubt from their religious teachers who propounded the scriptures.
Jesus address other things they had also heard from their religious teachers. Matthew 5:21-48 gives the perspective.

 

[quietthinker]

The point is--you were wrong.

Shortsighted with your deduction Scott, shortsighted!

 

[Wick Stick]

Yes the prophets are delivering a message from God but it's not verbatim....it is filtered through the Prophets current understanding ....and God does not violate the free choice of expression he gives people, even Prophets.

That's only true sometimes. There are many places where the Bible puts words directly in God's mouth - 'thus saith the Lord.' In other places it seems to indicate special revelation with the phrase 'the Word of the Lord came to the prophet.' That one doesn't indicate a verbatim quote, but it does claim a direct message at a level greater than 'I was feeling a bit inspired this morning.'

I like to look at how the New Testament authors used the Old Testament. They seem to have viewed ALL the words of the prophets as being things that can/should be "fulfilled." They clearly place special importance on them over the other books.

Throwing in the words, 'inerrant or infallible' (which by the way are not scriptural if one wants to go down that line) is an attempt to shore up preconceived/ premature conclusions and is designed to stifle any questioning.

You're right. Those weren't a thing in the 1st century, and I'm not sure they ought to be today. But there is something to the idea of 'inspired' in the New Testament and early church. For instance, this quote from the Didache:

7 Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven." 8 But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known. The Didache, chapter 11

 

[Wick Stick]

Compare the accounts of 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1

Hold up... not every Biblical book is written by a prophet. 1 Chronicles is NOT a book of prophecy; it's a book of history. It shouldn't be treated as the words of a prophet.

1&2 Samuel are squishy on this point. Samuel was a prophet, but the Biblical book seems to be written ABOUT Samuel, rather than BY Samuel. It's generally regarded as a history, too. I think it would be correct to attribute inspiration to direct quotations of God within the book, and perhaps Samuel depending on context.

 

[David in NJ]

Hold up... not every Biblical book is written by a prophet. 1 Chronicles is NOT a book of prophecy; it's a book of history. It shouldn't be treated as the words of a prophet.

1&2 Samuel are squishy on this point. Samuel was a prophet, but the Biblical book seems to be written ABOUT Samuel, rather than BY Samuel. It's generally regarded as a history, too. I think it would be correct to attribute inspiration to direct quotations of God within the book, and perhaps Samuel depending on context.

The Books contain the prophecies, such as the Psalms and 1 Chronicles and 1 & 2 Samuel = not that the every word for word is a prophecy

 

[Wick Stick]

The Books contain the prophecies, such as the Psalms and 1 Chronicles and 1 & 2 Samuel = not that the every word for word is a prophecy

My point was that you can't say "the prophets contradict each other" and then point to two passages that aren't prophets.

 

[David in NJ]

My point was that you can't say "the prophets contradict each other" and then point to two passages that aren't prophets.

Just make sure that the two passages are not "prophecy"

OT saint can speak a prophecy by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit without themself being a prophet/prophetess.

Example = Hannah

And Hannah prayed and said:

“My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.
2“No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.
3“Talk no more so very proudly;
Let no arrogance come from your mouth,
For the Lord is the God of knowledge;
And by Him actions are weighed.
4“The bows of the mighty men are broken,
And those who stumbled are girded with strength.
5Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread,
And the hungry have ceased to hunger.
Even the barren has borne seven,
And she who has many children has become feeble.
6“The Lord kills and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and brings up.
7The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
He brings low and lifts up.
8He raises the poor from the dust
And lifts the beggar from the ash heap,
To set them among princes
And make them inherit the throne of glory.
“For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s,
And He has set the world upon them.
9He will guard the feet of His saints,
But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.
“For by strength no man shall prevail.
10The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken in pieces;
From heaven He will thunder against them.
The Lord will judge the ends of the earth.
“He will give strength to His king,
And exalt the horn of His anointed.”

 

[ScottA]

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’” (Mt 5:43 NKJV)

Hating enemies was not something they had heard from Scripture.

This is what is true.

 

[ScottA]

Just make sure that the two passages are not "prophecy"

OT saint can speak a prophecy by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit without themself being a prophet/prophetess.

Example = Hannah

And Hannah prayed and said:

“My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.
2“No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.
3“Talk no more so very proudly;
Let no arrogance come from your mouth,
For the Lord is the God of knowledge;
And by Him actions are weighed.
4“The bows of the mighty men are broken,
And those who stumbled are girded with strength.
5Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread,
And the hungry have ceased to hunger.
Even the barren has borne seven,
And she who has many children has become feeble.
6“The Lord kills and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and brings up.
7The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
He brings low and lifts up.
8He raises the poor from the dust
And lifts the beggar from the ash heap,
To set them among princes
And make them inherit the throne of glory.
“For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s,
And He has set the world upon them.
9He will guard the feet of His saints,
But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.
“For by strength no man shall prevail.
10The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken in pieces;
From heaven He will thunder against them.
The Lord will judge the ends of the earth.
“He will give strength to His king,
And exalt the horn of His anointed.”

True. Every word from God (all scripture included) is not limited to the context of only one form of literature as designated by, or what seems best, according to men.