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"Did God create evil?"

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Christina, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. ROS777

    ROS777 New Member

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    Thanks, Kriss.Pops is just upset because his quoting chapter and verse hasn't proved his point of view except to prove he's taken the verses out of context on his rapture theory.
     
  2. ROS777

    ROS777 New Member

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    Ezekiel 28:12-19"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God:Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbincle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anonted cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,till iniquity was found in thee.By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned;therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness;I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."Point being made here is that Satan was created perfect and good.Genesis creation story: it was all good, repeated for emphasisTree of good and evil; Satan: after his fall when evil was found him inAdam and Eve partook of the tree of good and evil ( Satan )Prove me wrong that evil is a creation as opposed to a spoiling of what's already created; anybody?
     
  3. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    (ROS777;6327)
    Ezekiel 28:12-19"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God:Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbincle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anonted cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,till iniquity was found in thee.By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned;therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God; and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness;I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."Point being made here is that Satan was created perfect and good.Genesis creation story: it was all good, repeated for emphasisTree of good and evil; Satan: after his fall when evil was found him inAdam and Eve partook of the tree of good and evil ( Satan )Prove me wrong that evil is a creation as opposed to a spoiling of what's already created; anybody?
    ROS, I agree with you and once again, Pops, you are all wet!
     
  4. snaggs

    snaggs New Member

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    (ROS777;6327)
    Tree of good and evil; Satan: after his fall when evil was found him inAdam and Eve partook of the tree of good and evil ( Satan )Prove me wrong that evil is a creation as opposed to a spoiling of what's already created; anybody?
    I think evil could be described as a state of mind, a mental or spiritual decision of personel choice, and satan produced the thought patterns that produce and propagate the self will, the Me syndrome.Pops stating that "satan creating evil is ridiculess", Don.t you understand that we are the proving of Satans own developed state of thought and will, God did not slay Abel, Satan did, cain was just a babe of creation with no knowledge to draw on of his own, and a mind confused with the voices of his own reasoning that were directing him, all of us are pawns in a spiritual world that we have little or no knowledge of. Thats what the fruit of the Knowledge of good and evil is !! God created the tree with the fruit, for the purpose of what was fulfilled in the garden. Or maybe you don't believe that God knows the end from the beginning?
     
  5. Pop James

    Pop James New Member

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    Oh yeah............Pop is upset because a point is not accepted.........and he is all wet......you folks crack me up..........If pop is in the least upset about anything it would be that you without a doubt DO NOT understand the sovereignty of GOD enough to understand that GOD created ALL things....perhaps I should give you all yet another example, not that it will get through your thick skulls......but perhaps the LORD will reveal HIS power in creation to ya.....the definition of creation is this..."causing to exist"....the definition of Creator is "one who creates, the supreme being".....the point is GOD is the supreme being and HE and only HE creates whatever is created....show me a verse where it is said that GOD did not create all things but just the things man would desire that HE created.........all wet indeed....lol......Pop
     
  6. snaggs

    snaggs New Member

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    (Pop James;6331)
    Oh yeah............Pop is upset because a point is not accepted.........and he is all wet......you folks crack me up..........If pop is in the least upset about anything it would be that you without a doubt DO NOT understand the sovereignty of GOD enough to understand that GOD created ALL things....perhaps I should give you all yet another example, not that it will get through your thick skulls......but perhaps the LORD will reveal HIS power in creation to ya.....the definition of creation is this..."causing to exist"....the definition of Creator is "one who creates, the supreme being".....the point is GOD is the supreme being and HE and only HE creates whatever is created....show me a verse where it is said that GOD did not create all things but just the things man would desire that HE created.........all wet indeed....lol......Pop
    than what are the works of the devil that God had to come in the flesh to destroy?? than god created lies, of whom God can not lie!! God created the power of imagination, you are asuming that evil is a created entity of it's own, governed by God! God created Man, but he did not create Zyclon B, he created the poppy, but he did not create Heroin! It is writen that all that God created was GOOD, how do you equate evil being good??
     
  7. Pop James

    Pop James New Member

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    I certainly cannot equate evil being good.......what I can do is believe the scriptures.......I dont understand how this fact can be.....it is beyond any logic that I can imagine...all I know is the scripture says what it says.....and when I point out what the scripture says which cannot be denied I am "all wet".......according to some.......My attitude about the matter is the same as what an old preacher once said about "election"....."well there it is..I dont like it ..but there it is in the inspired scripture"..........friend the scripture that explains this matter MORE than any is deut. 29:29..............Pop
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Show me a verse, Pop, where it says God created sin. Not evil, not calamity, but specifically sin.Of course God created calamity; I don't need the verse DoubtingThomas cited to verify that; it was verified in Genesis and Exodus when God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and brought the plagues upon Egypt amongst other things.My point is that a great evil can befall a person without a great sin being part of it.Exodus 32:14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.According to your interpretation of literally following the word without context, God would have sinned here. You and I both know that not to be the case, though. God doesn't sin, He is righteous and perfect in all ways.God created us, but he did not create the sin that we do. That is our own shortcoming; just as it was Satan's in the first earth age.
     
  9. Pop James

    Pop James New Member

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    Thank GOD Fox I indeed cannot give you the verse you ask for.....Im glad to see that you agree concerning evil, calamity etc......Though you and I differ on some things, I must admit that you are a deep thinker when it comes to Spiritual matters...I respect that......You are correct in saying that GOD could not sin....this is the reason I offered the deut 29:29 verse...and you are also correct that I follow the Word literally. I would argue, of course, that there is NO lack of context. I also will bring it to your attention that GOD does indeed allow sin, though I do agree that HE could not have been the cause of it......Sin is to rebel against GOD in any way.......Fox...I believe that we agree that Is 45:7 is NOT speaking of moral evil...for GOD cannot be tempted with evil and HE HIMSELF temps no man according to james 1:13..........regards.Pop
     
  10. ROS777

    ROS777 New Member

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    So, had I said "sin" instead of "evil" which means sin, I would have been a deep thinker, Pop?The question was: did God create evil (?) Doubting Thomas cited a verse and you were grateful someone had the intelligence to put down a verse.However, the verse didn't prove that God created "evil" and evil in the verse's context was regarding punishment of sin by God.So it proved nothing.SwampFox clarified the definition of evil to mean sin and so it's resolved.Is that about the way this thread went for you?
     
  11. ROS777

    ROS777 New Member

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    (snaggs;6332)
    than what are the works of the devil that God had to come in the flesh to destroy?? than god created lies, of whom God can not lie!! God created the power of imagination, you are asuming that evil is a created entity of it's own, governed by God! God created Man, but he did not create Zyclon B, he created the poppy, but he did not create Heroin! It is writen that all that God created was GOOD, how do you equate evil being good??
    Snaggs, you bring up some interesting ideals. All that Satan can "create" is sin; ( if we call sin a creation ) evil is as you said; a state of being; until it is put into action.And are you saying that God knew Satan would sin?
     
  12. Pop James

    Pop James New Member

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    NO Ross.............you would still be a shallow thinker thinks I...........Pop
     
  13. ROS777

    ROS777 New Member

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    There's no need to trade insults.I'm not in the least insulted anyway; I consider the source.If you were a deep thinker, yourself; you'd be more careful of what you believe in; as the rapture theory has absolutely nothing to back it up in the Bible.
     
  14. Pop James

    Pop James New Member

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    Im sorry Ros............you misunderstood my point......it was not meant as an insult but more of an observation.........Thanks for bringing up the rapture for you prove my point exactly...................Pop
     
  15. Wayne Murray

    Wayne Murray New Member

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    God’s enemies will use scripture as Satan did to tempt Christ. They will misquote, twist or askew the truth for their agenda.For example, Isaiah 45:7 to say God created evil.Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. A deeper study will always manifest truth. (create) “bara” in the Hebrew. The Hebrew Poel Participle of the verb “bara” which, with “evil”, requires the rendering “bring about”.(evil) “ra, raah” in the Hebrew, is never rendered “sin”.God brings calamity about as the inevitable consequence of sin.It is rendered “calamity”.God brings about calamity because of sin. Whenever there are so-called contradictions of God’s Word, a deeper study is always required. This requires time and effort of the individual to delve into the truth of God’s Word.Also, use your brain and think about it. God cannot create true love. True love will only manifest in a being of freewill. In like manner God cannot create evil or righteousness, but will only manifest in beings of freewill.
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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