Did God Warn Us About The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine?

[michaelvpardo]

I agree with you pretty much. But from what I've experienced here those on the Pre-Trib Rapture don't really want to address Bible Scripture in context that disproves their theories. Time and time again, and not just by me, a discussion with them turns into one big denial of Scripture fest on their part, and the main reason usually is they simply are not listening to God in His Word, but only regurgitate popular doctrines of men that they've had drilled in their heads. Then, when they see no way around the Scripture one points out to them that goes against their doctrine, they get angry and start insulting behaviour, forcing you to go on the defensive.

So should the Biblically learned just say nothing to them, and not try to steer them away from that doctrinal error, even though we only plant a seed which only God can make grow?


Now see folks, Michael V? That's the attitude from many Pre-Trib Rapture folks I'm talking about.

Do you see how Arnie quickly side-stepped the fact that many of us have tried, and tried, to get him (and others on that doctrine) to look plainly... at the Scripture and read it as it is actually written, and he instead immediately goes to excuses like, "... it's because all they ever do is tell the rapture folks how wrong they are"?

That attitude is absolutely skirtting the main issue which is about pointing out Scripture to them which goes against that Pre-trib Rapture doctrine. That doctrine is wrong NOT because 'we' say so; it is wrong because God's written Word as the Measure reveals that it is wrong.

I think Arnie is trying to understand our point of view and seeking to be genuine, but all of us have a certain tendency to get defensive when our beliefs are challenged. After all, if someone can prove that we've been wrong in our understanding about one thing, what else might we be mistaken about. Some folks see their faith as based upon their understanding, but faith is a gift of God's grace built upon hearing (or receiving) His word. It's unusual to find someone that gets that point or gets the idea that it is God who wills to do and to work within us. It certainly seems like I'm operating according to my understanding, until I realize that I'd have never done those "works" I 've been called to do, prior to putting my trust in God's righteoousness in the person of His Son.
Just this morning, I had a guy at work start yelling at me, get all defensive, and call me a liar, just because I tried to explain to him the American automotive industries' production philosophy ( that is that the cars are engineered to have an average useful life of 10 years and this was because they'd examined Japanese production methods and quality control.) You'd have thought that I insulted his mother or something like that. How much worse would it be if I really challenged his comfort with his sin and unbelief?
The point that I try to make is that while we desire to see the church move away from doctrinal error, bible study for born again believers should be a time of godly fellowship.
These forums are used for discussion by those seeking to understand the scripture and by those pushing an agenda. Topical study always has an agenda. In my early days I didn't consider that I had an agenda of my own, but in retrospect my agenda was spreading the gospel of salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ (for salvation) along with the message of impending judgment upon our nation (and by extension to that of the world.) I still believe that "my" agenda was and is God's agenda, but in my spiritual immaturity it was easy to misunderstand the difference. (I'm not claiming to have "arrived," but have confidence that I am moving toward the goal of Christ Jesus.)
Now, I sometimes have well meaning people try to correct my "misunderstanding" of some scriptural interpretation or doctrinal issue, using what amounts to church dogma, the theses of reformation theologians, or church fathers, etc., and how are they to view me when I'm unable to receive their "intervention," being convinced of truth during my fellowship with the Lord in bible study. Generally the more scholarly ones find a covenient label, Calvinist, Wesleyan, millenial, gnostic, heretic, etc., and with the label I can be shelved away in their minds as irrelevant and misguided. Arguement alone doesn't convince people of our sincerity or of the legitimacy of our understanding, but the witness of the Spirit and the fruit that we display will either give us room to be heard, or place to be discarded like a rotten apple. The anonymity of the keyboard is a serious problem in itself. I know that in "the heat of the moment" I've made comments or cuts that I'd never have made in a bible study in front of my Pastor, or those that I hold as my peers in a local congregation. It's a little like the difference between Air Force missile command officers in fire control, or bombadiers, and infantry men who have to be up close and personal in combat. Rebukes may be the way of life, but they're hard to receive and I'm glad that God has never rebuked me for misunderstanding Him, but instead has shown me longsuffering patience and grace. Shouldn't we be trying to learn and demonstrate these qualities while presenting sound doctrine? While I certainly don't believe that we can sacrifice sound doctrine for unity, it isn't doctrine which unites us but brotherly love rooted in the love which God has shown us in the sacrifice of His Son. I suspect that you already understand these things, but this is a public forum, so I've labored the point for anyone that can receive it.
I've been building a nasty sleep deficit this week, spending so much time writing, so I'll excuse myself here, but with a prayer. May the Lord bless you and all who have understanding by magnifying His grace and according to His good and perfect will for us, in Christ Jesus. Amen.

 

[veteran]

It's all about staying in God's Word as written. One problem is that many just don't do enough Bible study for theirselves. And many when they do, they will drop the parts of His Word that doesn't agree with their specific Church organizational system doctrines of men. Our Lord Jesus warned about doing that with the fragments and leaven parables He gave. So it's not like we haven't already been forewarned.

Another problem is lack of understanding what is meant as metaphor or parable in God's Word vs. a direct revelation within Scripture. Lack of education figures some into it also, because many simply don't understand the meaning of a lot of English words in The Bible, nor will they take the time to go search out the meaning using good Bible tools like a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. And if that isn't enough, Christ's enemies have been busy with 'revisionism' of some of those tools, even the old Strong's.

Our Lord Jesus summed up the problem for us in the last days, don't allow any man to deceive you. That covers all those areas above.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Veteran,
Amen to that.