I was an unbeliever at one point in time. Don't you understand? I never said anything about Christian going through the second death, either. I do believe that Jesus Christ has had victory over the second death.
Did Jesus die the Second Death?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
THEN CORRECT your nieghbor . You dont even know what love your nieghbor as yourself even means .
You think it means be accepting and tolerant and BY all means dont correct those in sin .
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart mathew , YOU SHALL in any way correct him and not ALLOW sin upon him .
Paul knew the LOVE OF GOD and PUAL CORRECTED SIN BIG TIME IN THE CHURCH .
THOUGH the more abundantely HE DID LOVE , THE LESS HE WAS LOVED . TIME to make biblical correction great again
and stop supporting SIN .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I was an unbeliever too . I DO understand . THE lake of fire is NOT appointed unto those WHO DID COME TO CHRIST .
cause now i am no longer a UNBELIEVER . YOUR whole minds been messed up .
YOU believe and teach this other universal all inclusivism . ITS wrecked major damage unto you .
YOU are seeing things through universalisms concepts . NOT THROUGH the rightly divided word of Truth .
This preterism universalism stuff has wiped you out my friend . Just start over fresh in the bible for yourself .
Wow you are calling some wild shots out here, I am going to ahead and just leave your messages back on ignore. See you, I knew better than to have engaged.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Rather than debate through scriptures , on ignore i am placed . I am used to that mathew .
Well i did what i could .
Well i did what i could .
Okay. The lake of fire is for unbelievers. Yes. I agree. Though didn't we have to go to the all consuming fire, Yahava? Doesn't he still burn out even darkness and things that are inside of a believer? By the spirit, desiring more of the spirit than the fleshly? Didn't even John speak of a baptism of holy spirit and fire?
Talking down to me about my beliefs is quite errors' of you to do. I don't go and speak about the things you believe.
I don't think anyone can truly answer that question. But we know that the second death is death of the spirit, the first death is death of the body. Logic tells us that Jesus was holy, and his spirit is holy, so I would think he did not die the second death. He can resurrect us physically and for that he overcame the first death. Can he resurrect us spiritually? If we die spiritually?
You are correct in that it is separation from God, it is one that the wicked will suffer and never be brought back again. But Christ had no sin, and so did not deserve this, and yet we see his anguish when it came.
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
And we see God knew it would have to occur from the words in Psalms...
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Only the wicked full of sin and iniquity will perish for their sins...
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Yes I believe so, Jesus said that he would there would be a rising of condemnation, and a rising of life. Today, people who are of faith, build up their spiritual treasures seeking God in faith, loving him first and loving others. Those who reject in the need of God, or his son, they will be risen again, because Jesus had faith in his father, there would be a rising again for all people. That is the way that I tend to look at it.
It's interesting they only have a part in that fire and brimestone. The lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels.
Just curious, where do you get this idea that the second death is the "death of the spirit", that is nowhere in the Bible.
It is clearly spelled out in the bible:
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The question in the title of this thread should NEVER come from a believing Christian. It is blasphemous.
The "second death" of Rev.20 is about the wicked and unbelieving being cast into the future "lake of fire" after God's Great White Throne Judgment.
To even INFER Jesus, Immanuel God with us, could go into that "lake of fire", when He is in control of those who go into it, is a blasphemous idea, and should never be entertained by any Christian.
The "second death" of Rev.20 is about the wicked and unbelieving being cast into the future "lake of fire" after God's Great White Throne Judgment.
To even INFER Jesus, Immanuel God with us, could go into that "lake of fire", when He is in control of those who go into it, is a blasphemous idea, and should never be entertained by any Christian.
Short answer- no.
Long answer- given that sin is defined as disobedience toward God, I just can't see God disobeying Himself.
That means what makes you a person, your mind, the thinking part giving you a personality, and the body where it resides.
Christ had to die for our sins, which deserved the 'second death', thus He cried 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'
as was foretold...
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
He was separated from the Father in the 'second death' for us and yet He had no sin..
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
No Jesus did not die "the second death". We all die, then, because of Jesus' redeeming sacrifice, we will all be resurrected and afterwards be judged whether or not we are worthy of eternal life (Hebrews 9:27, as you quoted). Those that are judged unworthy will not have eternal life, they will die the second death and never again be resurrected - their soul will be killed ("Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna", Matthew 10:28 - WEB).
However, Jesus did not sin, and was therefore judged by God to be worthy of eternal life, demonstrated by God resurrecting him to life, exalting him and making him Lord over all living beings (except God, of course), Philippians 2:8-11 (WEB):
(8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.
(9) Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;
(10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth,
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Therefore there is no reason for Jesus to ever suffer the second death, and Jesus confirmed this in Revelation 1:18 (WEB):
(18) ... I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. ...
Our second death sins were laid on Himon the ross --they had to be. It wasn't the first death sins because we all die the first death.
It's because we all die (first death) as a penalty for our sins that Jesus sacrificed his life for us - to pay for us the penalty for those sins. We are therefore redeemed (our right/privilege to life bought back) and so we will be resurrected to life again. During the Millennial reign of Christ everyone will be restored back to human perfection and then tested and judged for worthiness of eternal life. It is only those that fail that judgement that will suffer a second death (permanent death).
Romans 6:23 (WEB):
(23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Christians, on the other hand, do not have to go through the Millennial age and it's final test, because they will be resurrected in the first resurrection as spirit beings and will reign with Jesus, helping to bless mankind in their restoration to human perfection.
Revelation 20:6 (WEB):
(6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
Acts 3:19-21 (WEB):
(19) “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,
(20) and that he may send Christ Jesus, who was ordained for you before,
(21) whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.
Yes, because He became sin for us 2 Cor 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
We do not die the second death, but we still die the first.
1Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
This life is the only life we have. We are mortals, and since God hates sin, the punishment for sin is death. It is not the first death because we all die. But God , if we believe in Jesus, sees that our sins are covered by Him, and we have the privilege of living with Him and not suffer the second death. So He had to have died the second death for us, in the sense that second death is (and it IS) separation from God. (MyGod, MyGod) Jesus overcame, so we can overcome through Him,
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