Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

[Lambano]

And they're still hard. That hasn't changed in 2000 years.

And until that does change, until God changes our hearts, that make divorce necessary and permissible. We're not home yet.

​

Señor, Señor, you know their hearts they're as hard as leather​

Well, give me a minute, let me get it together​

Just gotta pick myself up off the floor​

I'm ready when you are, Señor​

- Bob Dylan, Señor

 

[Lambano]

Who's responsible for changing human hearts? What does God do, what do we do?

Well, you did say that the questions are sometimes more important than the answers.

 

[St. SteVen]

And until that does change, until God changes our hearts, that make divorce necessary and permissible.

I would say "necessary", but not "permissible".

What God has put together, let no man put asunder.

The "permissible" aspect has created victims and tragic pain and suffering.

[

 

[Lambano]

I would say "necessary", but not "permissible".

Hmm. What else is "necessary, but impermissible?"

 

[Lambano]

The "permissible" aspect has created victims and tragic pain and suffering.

I suppose I should recuse myself from this conversation, since I am legally an accessory to adultery by Jesus's own words. (My wife knows how to accessorize.) And I'm getting closer to the day when Jesus will hold me accountable for the decisions I made in this life.

For the married woman is bound by Torah to her husband as long as he is alive; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. - Romans 7:2

"I don't believe in divorce - but I do believe in murder." - Ruth Graham

Technically, my wife merely had her ex declared legally dead a few years before he physically went on to whatever accountability there is for men who throw their wives into walls and abuse their own children with disabilities. But it wasn't murder; self-defense is legally-recognized grounds for justifiable homicide.

Think the Judge will buy that? We have a good Advocate.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hmm. What else is "necessary, but impermissible?"

Interesting question. Thanks.

Borders, boundaries and divisions.

When we draw lines we create division.
If you cross a line, there may be consequences.

One one side of the line is "us", and on the other side is "them".

Is this what God had in mind? Did we have His permission?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Think the Judge will buy that? We have a good Advocate.

I'm of the opinion that when God looks at a situation like this,
He doesn't open the laws books. Rather, He opens His heart.
There are victims.

[

 

[Lambano]

I'm of the opinion that when God looks at a situation like this,
He doesn't open the laws books. Rather, He opens His heart.
There are victims.

[

I don't know, man. The folks on this site aren't too big on that "grace" stuff.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know, man. The folks on this site aren't too big on that "grace" stuff.

Sad, but true. Sad, but true. (sigh)

[

 

[Wick Stick]

From the OP.

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

[

All the marriages recorded in Genesis are political alliances. That's why they got recorded. Not so easy to cancel without starting a war.

Other than that, Deuteronomy allows a man to divorce his wife for any reason, not just fornication. Most of the rules in the Law are actually preventing a divorced woman from re-marrying freely. Moses wasn't very progressive when it came to gender equality.

 

[Wick Stick]

There is no requirement in the scriptures for a wedding ceremony to be married. For one the ceremony was a pagan custom that the converted Gentiles brought into Christianity, which was not mandatory until the 16th century when Protestants made a church wedding a requirement to be married. Up to that point even the Catholic Church did not require a wedding.

Bronze Age marriages were often alliances, where a covenant was cut between the man and his prospective father-in-law. There typically is a ceremony for cutting a covenant. That ceremony was more about the 'cutting' and not so much about the bride. I'm not sure you'd exactly call it a wedding.

 

[PS95]

So you are claiming that Jesus approved of divorce?

Matthew 19:8 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard.
But it was not this way from the beginning.

[

Continue reading the next sentence.. A man is not expected to remain married to someone who continues to cheat on him. Matt 19:9
As the disciples stated in the next verse.. if a marriage is like that he would have been better off never marrying her.
I wouldn't read more into that than there is. The Lord does not burden people with remaining in a faithless marriage of adultery. Are you trying to say that he does?! Beware. ---
That's all I have for you. take care.

 

[St. SteVen]

Moses wasn't very progressive when it came to gender equality.

Yes. As I understand it, women were considered to be property. Like slaves.

Paul's teaching to "love your wives" was revolutionary.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Continue reading the next sentence.. A man is not expected to remain married to someone who continues to cheat on him. Matt 19:9

Not what it says. (fact check)

Matt 19:9 NIV
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and marries another woman commits adultery.”

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting question. Thanks.

Borders, boundaries and divisions.

When we draw lines we create division.
If you cross a line, there may be consequences.

One one side of the line is "us", and on the other side is "them".

Is this what God had in mind? Did we have His permission?

The reason this is "necessary, but impermissible" is because of human nature.

[ cc: @Lambano

 

[Fred J]

Continue reading the next sentence.. A man is not expected to remain married to someone who continues to cheat on him. Matt 19:9
As the disciples stated in the next verse.. if a marriage is like that he would have been better off never marrying her.
I wouldn't read more into that than there is. The Lord does not burden people with remaining in a faithless marriage of adultery. Are you trying to say that he does?! Beware. ---
That's all I have for you. take care.

Jesus is very clear, except for sexual immorality one is allowed to divorce.

Besides that by no means divorce is allowed, because according to the scripture context Jewish men divorce their wives without a cause.

Plainly put away their wives just to marry another, as Jesus called them heartless men, who apparently their fathers forced Moses to write such a Law.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus is very clear, except for sexual immorality one is allowed to divorce.

Besides that by no means divorce is allowed, because according to the scripture context Jewish men divorce their wives without a cause.

Plainly put away their wives just to marry another, as Jesus called them heartless men, who apparently their fathers forced Moses to write such a Law.

Do you not see the contradiction?

[

 

[Wick Stick]

Yes. As I understand it, women were considered to be property. Like slaves.

This can be true, but it isn't always. It depends on social status more than gender.

For an upper-class man taking a lower-class wife, she would essentially be property as you say. But in the case where the wife's family is of an equal or higher class than the husband, she could have significant rights. It depends on what terms were negotiated between the groom and the bride's father.

For instance, Esau married Aholibamah, a princess of the Hivites. SHE later became DUKE over Edom AND the Hivites, taking a position of tribal leadership normally inherited from father-to-son.

On the other hand, Jacob took both Leah AND Rebekah as wives, and they do not appear to have retained ANY sort of rights. Their father instead negotiated 14 years of labor from Jacob as the bride-price.

 

[quietthinker]

Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.​

At least we know grounds for divorce don't come out of the coffee pot!

 

[St. SteVen]

At least we know grounds for divorce don't come out of the coffee pot!

Unless the grounds end up in the coffee cup.

[