Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.
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The translation is clear, to any kind of sexual sin and not specifically fornication.
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
AngelicArcher
Active Member
Deuteronomy 24.
A dysfunctional marriage, one with spousal abuse, is grounds for divorce if the abused spouse wants to live free of terror and assault. Even death.
Adultery is certainly grounds for divorce. If the two are to become one in marriage and one breaks off and sexes another, the covenant of
Oneness has been abrogated.
God forgives.
We get one life. Saying, I do till death us do part, and thinking there is no way out when living in a horrific marriage assures one thing. There are a great many ways to die.
A dysfunctional marriage, one with spousal abuse, is grounds for divorce if the abused spouse wants to live free of terror and assault. Even death.
Adultery is certainly grounds for divorce. If the two are to become one in marriage and one breaks off and sexes another, the covenant of
Oneness has been abrogated.
God forgives.
We get one life. Saying, I do till death us do part, and thinking there is no way out when living in a horrific marriage assures one thing. There are a great many ways to die.
1 Corinthians 6:
15. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? GOD forbid.
16. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith HE, shall be one flesh.
Shalom in the name of Adonai Yeshua
15. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? GOD forbid.
16. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith HE, shall be one flesh.
Shalom in the name of Adonai Yeshua
AngelicArcher
Active Member
1 Corinthians 6 should be read in full for context.
If one wants to excise a portion to make a point regarding sexual immorality, it is advised to read verses 12 to 20 .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
That is based on the discussion in summary, but those refer to the scripture can read and decide for themselves the context.
If you were to say the context starts from verse 12, what have meat to do with fornication and harlot?
Does meat defile your body, or does fornication and harlot?
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
AngelicArcher
Active Member
First of all do you know the content of this discussion?
Have you read all of my post?
AngelicArcher
Active Member
AngelicArcher
Active Member
Which part i don't?
i have many replied posts on this discussion, point out from them the part i don't understand.
No need to go back and forth in vain and fruitless.
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AngelicArcher
Active Member
New topic:
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The position of the church and society at large is mistaken
as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.
Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?
The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.
The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.
The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.
This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???
For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18
Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.
Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
--- COMPARE ---
Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
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as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.
Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?
The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.
The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.
The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.
This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???
For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18
Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.
Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
--- COMPARE ---
Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Within Christianity, which started after Jesus died on the Cross, and He had not died on it, when He was talking to JEWS about marriage and divorce........we find that God's Grace has now taken the place of Moses's Law, (that Jesus was under) during His ministry that sometimes informed His teaching to the JEWS....., when He was talking to those Jews about marriage and divorce.
So, under the New Covenant, a believer may stay with an unbeliever should one of them become a Christian.....or they may divorce.
If 2 Christians find that there is no way forward for them.........because of many Legit reasons, then God's Grace doesn't change into law forbidding them to divorce.
In fact....... and for an example..........a good hearted Christian woman might find herself married to a dead-beat.... A useless male.........who wont work, wont take care of His family, and only wants to stay home and get High, and play video games, and wastes whatever money she is making because she is the only one is the family who is working to try to keep their home and feed their kids.
So, should this woman and her kids be tortured by such a dog of a human being....for years and years for over 5 yrs.
God's Grace says......>"find a better one".......you are allowed to make mistakes, and correct them.
So correct that one.
One of the issues in the body of Christ, is that you have self righteous people, who know nothing about salvaiton, or the NT, who want to condemn anyone that has been prevviously married, or needs to get a divorce for Legit reasons.
So, what you do with these carnal people is you dont listen to them.
Turn them off.....and Instead you sovle the problem that is destroying your life, and you move on with your life and find a new horizon.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Here again is the danger of quoting a verse out of context....what does the whole passage say?....and what is the word Jesus used here as grounds for divorce and remarriage?
Matt 19:3-12...NIV...
“Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, (porneia) and marries another woman commits adultery.” (moichaō) The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Jesus was answering a question asked by the Pharisees to test him out. Were there grounds for divorce other than for “porneia” (which is the word in question)....could a man seek a divorce from his wife on any sort of grounds? In Israel, it was tolerated for a time that a man could divorce his wife on grounds other than “porneia”...but note Jesus’ full response.....”Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
He had just told them.....”“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Marriage was a union of two, who become “one flesh” in God’s eyes. And what God has joined together in marriage, let no man be responsible for tearing those two apart. What then is “porneia”?
Strongs definition is....
- illicit sexual intercourse
- adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
- sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
- sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11-12
In Israel, women did not have much of a say, but that attitude was not from God, who created Adam’s mate to be a “complement” for him. A compliment, in that context was a joining of roles given to offset one another so that one made the other complete. The marriage of two became one in God’s eyes. No one was to treat his mate in such a way as to break that bond. Each knew what was expected of the other and as long as they stayed within the parameters of that Holy arrangement, their children would be raised by the two loving parents who created them.
A woman was not created to be a man’s chattel......but in sentencing Eve for her disobedience, God said that her husband would dominate her. That domination took over the marriage arrangement in ancient Israel....but Jesus said it was not that way from the beginning.
Why then did Jesus then mention “eunuchs”? He spoke of eunuchs as those “who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
This is why they said it is better not to marry than to be saddled with a wife they could not divorce unless adultery or any kind of sexual deviation occurred.
The lesson here is....choose carefully, because was there was no provision for either party to divorce an abusive or dead beat mate. Did that mean that a wife or husband was physically trapped in such a marriage? I think we need to read the story of Abigail and her dead beat husband....and see now that story ended. What a woman! (1 Sam 25:2–39)
Paul answers that question....
1 Cor 7:8-15....NIV...
“Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”
Note here, this is to the “unmarried and widows”.....not divorcees.
He goes on to say....
“To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.”
A clear directive....that if the relationship become untenable for whatever reason, a woman could separate from her husband but with what result in view? She is not free to remarry, but she she is free to reconcile with him if he is amenable. The husband could not divorce his wife...unless sexual immortality had occurred.
Since there were no other choices, reconciliation was beneficial for both.
To those who were married to unbelievers, Paul said....
“To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.”
We see there that again the circumstances are clearly outlined.....there is to be no divorce with freedom to remarry unless one of the mates commits “porneia”.
Having all that in mind....our choice of marriage mate better be a good one.....based on good character and sound Christian moral standards. There is no exit clause for remarriage unless the scriptural grounds are met. A husband or wife is free to forgive a repentant mate, but they forego the right to divorce once the mate is taken back....unless they repeat the offense.
There is grounds for separation, but not divorce. One had to become a “eunuch”.....like it or not.
God sets the standards, not man.
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