DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PETER AND PAUL

[CNKW3]

Hello
Acts 2:47 was before Paul and the body of Christ.

The church is the body.

 

[Doug]

Read the text..
Colossians 2:11-13 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
What is circumcision? A removing of flesh. Circumcision by Christ is the removal of sins of the flesh. When are sins removed? In baptism. Acts 2:38, 3:19, 22:16, rom 6:17,18, 1 pet 3:21
God operates by removing sins when one is baptized.

Buried with him in baptism,
Same exact thought as Paul had in Rom 6. Immersion in water is a burial. Water baptism is how one obeys the death burial resurrection of Christ. You die to sin, buried in water, raised as a new creature.

wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Is your faith in the water or in God? Your faith is in God. The water does nothing. When naaman dipped 7 times was it the water or his faith that cleansed him? His faith.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
When is one forgiven of sins? After they are raised out of the water in obedience from the heart. Rom 6:17,18.
When were Paul’s sins removed. In baptism. Acts 22:16

You show me at what point your sins are removed? It’s the blood that cleanses so tell me at what point does a convert come in contact with the blood of Christ?

Hello
You say sins are removed in baptism and cited as one example Acts2:38....you can agree or disagree with me, and that's ok...... but you are right ....baptism cleanses sin...BUT....this was for Israel....while the Davidic kingdom was being offered to Israel...it cleansed them to be priests in the kingdom.

 

[Doug]

The church is the body.

Hello
The church as the body was not until it was revealed to Paul....the church existed before that as the "church of God" but not the body of Christ.
The body of Christ was Jew and Gentile reconciled as one new man....this was not revealed until Paul (Ephesians 2:15).

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
You say sins are removed in baptism and cited as one example Acts2:38....you can agree or disagree with me, and that's ok...... but you are right ....baptism cleanses sin...BUT....this was for Israel....while the Davidic kingdom was being offered to Israel...it cleansed them to be priests in the kingdom.

You been watching Les Feldick? At what point are our sins removed? At what point do we come in contact with the saving blood of Christ?

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
The church as the body was not until it was revealed to Paul....the church existed before that as the "church of God" but not the body of Christ.
The body of Christ was Jew and Gentile reconciled as one new man....this was not revealed until Paul (Ephesians 2:15).

Paul is the one that said the church is the body and at no time does Paul ever say you were in the church but now your in the body. Please show me in scripture the point where that change was made. Just because Paul used different terminology does not mean the means of entry had changed.

 

[Doug]

You been watching Les Feldick? At what point are our sins removed? At what point do we come in contact with the saving blood of Christ?

Hello
Les ....haha..I have listened to him, but not recently....why?

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself and not imputing trespasses unto us 2 Corinthians 5:19

We are sealed upon belief Ephesians 1:13

 

[Doug]

Paul is the one that said the church is the body and at no time does Paul ever say you were in the church but now your in the body. Please show me in scripture the point where that change was made. Just because Paul used different terminology does not mean the means of entry had changed.

Hello
If someone believes the gospel Paul preaches they are placed in the church, the body.
Before Paul, if they believed say...Peter...they were in Christ and members of the church, which Paul called the church of God.

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
Les ....haha..I have listened to him, but not recently....why?

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself and not imputing trespasses unto us 2 Corinthians 5:19

We are sealed upon belief Ephesians 1:13

Because what you are saying sounds like I’m listening word for word to a les Feldick program who by the way is a horrible Bible teacher. If you watch don’t use his program to learn NT doctrine. I could spend all day on his false doctrines. He has molded a narrative to fit his own beliefs.

Eph 1 says they were sealed after belief not at the time they believed. A good study now would be...how does the Bible use the word believe? Everybody seems to think it is just a moment in time when you mentally come to grips with what Jesus did at the cross. That is not true.

A seal is something visible. When you look at the Ephesians conversion they did not automatically receive the spirit. After he baptized them a second time he then laid his hands on them to impart to them spiritual gifts and they spoke in tongues as a visible confirmation that they had received the spirit. I believe that is the seal he was talking about but let’s say for arguments sake he is talking about salvation.

Paul in Rom 10 said...
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We have to realize that Paul NEVER teaches a contradiction. In 1 Cor 4:17 he said that he preached the same thing in every church. So, what he preached to the Ephesians he also preached to the Romans especially dealing with salvation. He might use different terminology but that doesn’t mean different doctrine. Also, if the Ephesians wanted salvation then they too would have to call on the name of the lord just like everybody else. Peter in acts 2 said that whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved. Peter and Paul are teaching the same thing. Even if Les doesn’t think so.
So, if the sealing in Eph 1 resulted in salvation than it has to be connected to calling on the name of the lord. And before someone can call they have to believe Rom 10:14. It doesn’t happen at the same time. They believe then they call so the Ephesians to would have to first believe then call, then salvation would follow.
My point is....they did not receive salvation at the very moment they “believed”. They still had to call. If not then Paul is lying in Rom 10:13-15

The big questions? What does it mean to call on the name of the Lord and how is that process described in the NT?

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
If someone believes the gospel Paul preaches they are placed in the church, the body.
Before Paul, if they believed say...Peter...they were in Christ and members of the church, which Paul called the church of God.

I don’t see the difference. It is the Lord that adds one to the church or the body. They are the same. Christ said he would build his church singular not churches. Since Pentecost the mode of entry has been the same.
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Taught by Peter and the 11

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Taught by Paul.
The mode of entry is the same. One must believe then call then the lord adds you to his church his body they are the same.

 

[Doug]

Because what you are saying sounds like I’m listening word for word to a les Feldick program who by the way is a horrible Bible teacher. If you watch don’t use his program to learn NT doctrine. I could spend all day on his false doctrines. He has molded a narrative to fit his own beliefs.

Eph 1 says they were sealed after belief not at the time they believed. A good study now would be...how does the Bible use the word believe? Everybody seems to think it is just a moment in time when you mentally come to grips with what Jesus did at the cross. That is not true.

A seal is something visible. When you look at the Ephesians conversion they did not automatically receive the spirit. After he baptized them a second time he then laid his hands on them to impart to them spiritual gifts and they spoke in tongues as a visible confirmation that they had received the spirit. I believe that is the seal he was talking about but let’s say for arguments sake he is talking about salvation.

Paul in Rom 10 said...
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We have to realize that Paul NEVER teaches a contradiction. In 1 Cor 4:17 he said that he preached the same thing in every church. So, what he preached to the Ephesians he also preached to the Romans especially dealing with salvation. He might use different terminology but that doesn’t mean different doctrine. Also, if the Ephesians wanted salvation then they too would have to call on the name of the lord just like everybody else. Peter in acts 2 said that whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved. Peter and Paul are teaching the same thing. Even if Les doesn’t think so.
So, if the sealing in Eph 1 resulted in salvation than it has to be connected to calling on the name of the lord. And before someone can call they have to believe Rom 10:14. It doesn’t happen at the same time. They believe then they call so the Ephesians to would have to first believe then call, then salvation would follow.
My point is....they did not receive salvation at the very moment they “believed”. They still had to call. If not then Paul is lying in Rom 10:13-15

The big questions? What does it mean to call on the name of the Lord and how is that process described in the NT?

Hello
The salvation you are speaking of....baptism, laying on of hands, tongues...in Acts 19:6 was done unto Jewish believers....this is the Jews program as put forth in Mark 16:17

Romans 10:12-13 were Jew and Gentiles responding to Peter and the apostles...another example of the Jews program

Salvation for the Jews was not immediate like ours today it comes upon the return of Christ Acts 3:19

 

[Doug]

I don’t see the difference. It is the Lord that adds one to the church or the body. They are the same. Christ said he would build his church singular not churches. Since Pentecost the mode of entry has been the same.
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Taught by Peter and the 11

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Taught by Paul.
The mode of entry is the same. One must believe then call then the lord adds you to his church his body they are the same.

Hello
Romans 10:13 Quoted by Paul not taught for the body

You can't find the body of Christ anywhere but Paul...Jew and Gentile one new man....only Paul

 

[Doug]

Because what you are saying sounds like I’m listening word for word to a les Feldick program who by the way is a horrible Bible teacher. If you watch don’t use his program to learn NT doctrine. I could spend all day on his false doctrines. He has molded a narrative to fit his own beliefs.

Eph 1 says they were sealed after belief not at the time they believed. A good study now would be...how does the Bible use the word believe? Everybody seems to think it is just a moment in time when you mentally come to grips with what Jesus did at the cross. That is not true.

A seal is something visible. When you look at the Ephesians conversion they did not automatically receive the spirit. After he baptized them a second time he then laid his hands on them to impart to them spiritual gifts and they spoke in tongues as a visible confirmation that they had received the spirit. I believe that is the seal he was talking about but let’s say for arguments sake he is talking about salvation.

Paul in Rom 10 said...
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
We have to realize that Paul NEVER teaches a contradiction. In 1 Cor 4:17 he said that he preached the same thing in every church. So, what he preached to the Ephesians he also preached to the Romans especially dealing with salvation. He might use different terminology but that doesn’t mean different doctrine. Also, if the Ephesians wanted salvation then they too would have to call on the name of the lord just like everybody else. Peter in acts 2 said that whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved. Peter and Paul are teaching the same thing. Even if Les doesn’t think so.
So, if the sealing in Eph 1 resulted in salvation than it has to be connected to calling on the name of the lord. And before someone can call they have to believe Rom 10:14. It doesn’t happen at the same time. They believe then they call so the Ephesians to would have to first believe then call, then salvation would follow.
My point is....they did not receive salvation at the very moment they “believed”. They still had to call. If not then Paul is lying in Rom 10:13-15

The big questions? What does it mean to call on the name of the Lord and how is that process described in the NT?

Hello
To believe is being fully persuaded that what he said he would do is able and will do it Romans 4:21....save us freely by the redemption in Christ to be specific

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
The salvation you are speaking of....baptism, laying on of hands, tongues...in Acts 19:6 was done unto Jewish believers....this is the Jews program as put forth in Mark 16:17

Romans 10:12-13 were Jew and Gentiles responding to Peter and the apostles...another example of the Jews program

Salvation for the Jews was not immediate like ours today it comes upon the return of Christ Acts 3:19

How do you know they were Jews? The text does not say. Paul wrote Ephesians directing it toward gentiles.
There is no “jews program”. That phrase is NEVER USED so why do you refer to it? It is only the gospel of Jesus Christ. You either believe and obey or you don’t. In Mk 16 Jesus told the apostles to go and preach THE GOSPEL! Not a gospel. Not a temporary gospel. Not the Jews gospel.
Why didn’t Paul straighten them out in the book of Romans? He never told them the program had changed and that they weren’t doing it right?
To the contrary...
Romans 1:6-9,12 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: how can they be the called of Jesus Christ following the wrong program?
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Paul does not seem to think they need to change and get off the jews program. He wants the whole world to hear.
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Vs 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
The mutual faith? That is a very telling statement that confirms that Paul and the Romans were on the same page. I know this doesn’t mean anything to you. Les has you too mixed up.

Paul is describing the process of salvation in Rom 10. Why would he describe the Jews program if he was instructed to go and preach his gospel? This argument you are making does not hold up under investigation. Too many contradictions.

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
Romans 10:13 Quoted by Paul not taught for the body

So we don’t have to call on the name of the Lord today? I think I can say I have never heard that one. We are starting to get to the point of absurdity.
In Rom 16:16 Paul says...
The CHURCHES of CHRIST salute you! According to your teaching he should have said... the bodies of Christ salute you.
See Doug, too many contradictions.

 

[Nancy]

Did Paul preach baptism? Yes or no? An honest Bible student will have to answer yes.
Why did Paul preach baptism? Was it just some superfluous act that you may or may not have to do, only if you have time?
Paul describes why in Rom 6.
It is because we are baptized “into” Christ. Ro 6:3. One cannot be saved unless they are “in Christ”. One cannot be “in Christ” and still be in their sins. We are buried with him in baptism. We know this is not spiritual baptism just through the description. A burial? Being planted? Raising to walk in newness of life? All of these describe what takes place when one is lowered into and brought out of the water. Not only that but he concludes this context with this....
Romans 6:17-18 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
What form of doctrine has he been talking about? Baptism. These people had obeyed the command to be baptized. (There is no command to be spirit baptized) These individuals in Rome had never come in contact with Paul so somebody else taught them this. Who was it? Had to be Peter on Pentecost because we are told that there were people from Rome in the audience.
After one obeys this form what happens? Being THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN. When one comes out of the waters of baptism their sins are washed away, remitted, made free from. They have a new life and are a new creature. Acts 22:16; 2:38; rom 6:17,18; 2 Cor 5:17

Paul preached baptism to everybody. It wasn’t just some church ordinance because he never preached the Lords supper as a part of a persons conversion. He preached it because it is at that point ones sins are removed. I could say more but this should be enough to an honest Bible student.

Not everything is pretty much "spelled out" in scripture, but I cannot see where Paul did not preach baptism and all doctrine he himself learned.
You have chosen some good verses CNKW3.
I don't understand this attitude going around lately with some trying to separate Paul's gospel from the others.
The scripture you noted is quite clear.

 

[CNKW3]

Not everything is pretty much "spelled out" in scripture, but I cannot see where Paul did not preach baptism and all doctrine he himself learned.
You have chosen some good verses CNKW3.
I don't understand this attitude going around lately with some trying to separate Paul's gospel from the others.
The scripture you noted is quite clear.

Thank you for this refreshing post. It’s good to see there are voices of reason.

 

[Doug]

How do you know they were Jews? The text does not say. Paul wrote Ephesians directing it toward gentiles.
There is no “jews program”. That phrase is NEVER USED so why do you refer to it? It is only the gospel of Jesus Christ. You either believe and obey or you don’t. In Mk 16 Jesus told the apostles to go and preach THE GOSPEL! Not a gospel. Not a temporary gospel. Not the Jews gospel.
Why didn’t Paul straighten them out in the book of Romans? He never told them the program had changed and that they weren’t doing it right?
To the contrary...
Romans 1:6-9,12 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: how can they be the called of Jesus Christ following the wrong program?
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Paul does not seem to think they need to change and get off the jews program. He wants the whole world to hear.
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Vs 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
The mutual faith? That is a very telling statement that confirms that Paul and the Romans were on the same page. I know this doesn’t mean anything to you. Les has you too mixed up.

Paul is describing the process of salvation in Rom 10. Why would he describe the Jews program if he was instructed to go and preach his gospel? This argument you are making does not hold up under investigation. Too many contradictions.

Hello
In Romans 9 and 10 Paul is speaking of the election of grace (11:5) the believing remnant of Jews and Greeks who believed the gospel of the kingdom and on the name of Jesus as their Messiah, the Son of God who would call on his name (10:12-13). Paul was not preaching his gospel at that time and was persecuting them.

 

[Doug]

So we don’t have to call on the name of the Lord today? I think I can say I have never heard that one. We are starting to get to the point of absurdity.
In Rom 16:16 Paul says...
The CHURCHES of CHRIST salute you! According to your teaching he should have said... the bodies of Christ salute you.
See Doug, too many contradictions.

Hello
Israel was to call upon the name of the Lord. Israel had to receive Jesus as their Messiah, as the Son of God to be saved, they had to believe on his name (John 20:31).

In Acts 2 Peter, speaking to Israel (men of Judea) was relating Pentecost to the fulfillment of Joel and the last days before the coming Davidic kingdom on earth. In Acts 2:21 it was then that Israel was to call upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

 

[CNKW3]

Hello
In Romans 9 and 10 Paul is speaking of the election of grace (11:5) the believing remnant of Jews and Greeks who believed the gospel of the kingdom and on the name of Jesus as their Messiah, the Son of God who would call on his name (10:12-13). Paul was not preaching his gospel at that time and was persecuting them.

Romans 10:8-13 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Paul just said he is talking about the word of faith, not a word. It is also the one WE preach (Paul and other apostles) he then goes on to explain the word they including Paul preached.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Believing and confessing “unto” is moving toward salvation. Notice the word “for” in the next few sentences. This is the word gar which means because. So, we can see this is one continuous thought. This is all a part of the word of faith that all the apostles preached.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
Doesn’t this above verse contradict your teaching? Paul is saying that this message is for all because there is no difference between Jew and Greek.
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Unto all. Not just a remnant number of Jews.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
So one must believe, confess and call in order to be saved. This is the word of faith which all(we...Paul and the apostles) preached. There is no difference between Jew and Greek.

 

[Doug]

Romans 10:8-13 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Paul just said he is talking about the word of faith, not a word. It is also the one WE preach (Paul and other apostles) he then goes on to explain the word they including Paul preached.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Believing and confessing “unto” is moving toward salvation. Notice the word “for” in the next few sentences. This is the word gar which means because. So, we can see this is one continuous thought. This is all a part of the word of faith that all the apostles preached.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
Doesn’t this above verse contradict your teaching? Paul is saying that this message is for all because there is no difference between Jew and Greek.
for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Unto all. Not just a remnant number of Jews.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
So one must believe, confess and call in order to be saved. This is the word of faith which all(we...Paul and the apostles) preached. There is no difference between Jew and Greek.

Hello
I don't know if you missed this post:
Israel was to call upon the name of the Lord. Israel had to receive Jesus as their Messiah, as the Son of God to be saved, they had to believe on his name (John 20:31).

In Acts 2 Peter, speaking to Israel (men of Judea) was relating Pentecost to the fulfillment of Joel and the last days before the coming Davidic kingdom on earth. In Acts 2:21 it was then that Israel was to call upon the name of the Lord for salvation.