Differences of Opinion vs. A House Divided

[ScottA]

I suppose this comes under ethics..

I just told someone off in another thread, and it occurred to me that there is a HUGE difference between having a difference of opinion and divisions amongst this Christian house.

Differences of opinion are like what flavor of ice cream--completely harmless. On the other hand, aiding the enemy by any means...should be a clear sign of division, and should not be so amongst those who share the love of Christ.

So...I am not happy that I felt the need to tell someone off, but it was warranted as I was confronted with one aiding the enemy.

Can we discuss what things should and should not be between us, here on Christianity Board, or among any who take up the name of Christ? My hope is that it would cause us to think our way through to a better behavior, a more loving form of interaction.

Be nice, or be stern, but do so in the love of Christ.

 

[marks]

do so in the love of Christ.

I we can hold to this standard, much will be different!

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Incidentally...

I do not see most denominational differences as division--some, but not most. I see it as biblical, as a body of many [different] members.

 

[Cassandra]

it was warranted and fell under the category of aiding the enemy.

if this is regarding a recent post on a controversial topic, i think it is very unfair of you to say that.
Everything is ok, unless it goes against your grain?

 

[ScottA]

if this is regarding a recent post on a controversial topic, i think it is very unfair of you to say that.
Everything is ok, unless it goes against your grain?

No--that is not what I am saying. At all.

I am saying there is an obvious difference, and both occur here and among the Christian community. I am also saying that righteous rebuke is completely biblical--which is not a license to disagree with biblical backing, but comes with the full authority of God, or with His rebuke if it is not from Him but from the person. Likewise, it is also biblical that we should be doing whatever it is we bring to the table with the love of Christ, or risk being told by Him "I never knew you."

This is a very serious matter.

The point is--if ones opinion is announced first, great, no problem. But if one plays their opinion as if it were gospel, and gets ugly besides--that kind of behavior should never be, here, or anywhere among confessing Christians.

And going "against my grain" is not why I brought it up.

 

[ScottA]

If we can hold to this standard, much will be different!

Much love!

Marks...the "Much love!" guy -- you deserve a STAR!

 

[Cassandra]

What you did here is to bring up something you did, and try to get kudos for doing it.
Did you have to start a thread to toot your own horn, and congratulate yourself on being a master of the universe?

Hope you feel justified.

Ignored. I don't need to read anymore self righteousness.

 

[marks]

What you did here is to bring up something you did, and try to get kudos for doing it.
Did you have to start a thread to toot your own horn, and congratulate yourself on being a master of the universe?

Hope you feel justified.

Ignored. I don't need to read anymore self righteousness.

I don't know what happened on another thread, but I agree that there is a way to disagree that brings unhealthy division, and there is a way to disagree in love that doesn't.

Regarding rebuke and correction, the one giving it, well, when I feel I need to, it's with fear of creating that division through a heavy hand, or presumption, or just being wrong about it. There can be bad with the good, and I need to not let bad get in the way of the good.

When I'm being given correction or rebuke, it's on me to weigh it honestly, and submit if appropriate, even if I'm being unfairly flamed. And the same consideration applies, if there is bad mixed with the good, I need to receive the good, and not respond poorly to the bad.

In either case, we need to both offer, and receive rebuke and correction within the context of love, that all things are worked for our good, even an unruly forum member. And that it is better to be wronged than to wrong another.

And maybe some things are best left to PM's.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Everything is ok, unless it goes against your grain?

That is not really what Scott is saying. He simply want to know how difference of opinion compare to divisions within Christendom.
1. Difference of opinion do exist.
2. Ideally they should be resolved with Scripture.
3. However some insist on promoting false doctrines in the face of Scripture.
4. Which means that the division was already there. Time to move on.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Teaching things that are contrary to the Bible is hardly the same as harmlessly favoring one flavor of ice cream over another. This is a ridiculous comparison that is fueled by equally ridiculous logic. If someone is teaching contrary to the Bible, it's because they're rejecting what the Source of all truth says. That is not harmless, as the Bible unequivocally teaches that someone is in danger of writing their own ticket into the lake of fire by doing such a thing.

Paul told the Romans to stay away from people who were teaching and practicing things that were contrary to what he told them to do and believe. Does that tell a rational personal that Paul viewed opposing theologies as being harmless as favoring one ice cream flavor over another? Of course not, and it's extremely silly to even argue that such a view is logical.

Christians can speculate over things like which route the Israelites took to the Promised Land, where the Red Sea was, or what Cain used to murder Abel, but crystal clear doctrines that are taught as an absolute fact are not up for debate or speculation. The vast amount of confusion and sects in Orthodox Christianity reflects a widespread refusal among its adherents to believe that there is only 1 correct way to understand what was written.

 

[ScottA]

Teaching things that are contrary to the Bible is hardly the same as harmlessly favoring one flavor of ice cream over another. This is a ridiculous comparison that is fueled by equally ridiculous logic. If someone is teaching contrary to the Bible, it's because they're rejecting what the Source of all truth says. That is not harmless, as the Bible unequivocally teaches that someone is in danger of writing their own ticket into the lake of fire by doing such a thing.

Paul told the Romans to stay away from people who were teaching and practicing things that were contrary to what he told them to do and believe. Does that tell a rational personal that Paul viewed opposing theologies as being harmless as favoring one ice cream flavor over another? Of course not, and it's extremely silly to even argue that such a view is logical.

Christians can speculate over things like which route the Israelites took to the Promised Land, where the Red Sea was, or what Cain used to murder Abel, but crystal clear doctrines that are taught as an absolute fact are not up for debate or speculation. The vast amount of confusion and sects in Orthodox Christianity reflects a widespread refusal among its adherents to believe that there is only 1 correct way to understand what was written.

The point is that opinion based arguments happen all the time among Christians, here, and in all of Christendom--which have no bearing on the truth from God. Such a position should not be considered viable in taking a Christian brother or sister to task.

But someone will argue even that.

 

[farouk]

The point is that opinion based arguments happen all the time among Christians, here, and in all of Christendom--which have no bearing on the truth from God. Such a position should not be considered viable in taking a Christian brother or sister to task.

Romans 4.3 says: "What saith the Scripture?"

This is the test...

 

[ScottA]

Romans 4.3 says: "What saith the Scripture?"

This is the test...

2 Timothy 2:23

"But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife."​

 

[Ziggy]

Can we discuss what things should and should not be between us, here on Christianity Board, or among any who take up the name of Christ?

I'm trying to think of something that is not discussable in the body of Christ.
I mean everybody faces all kinds of things in the world everyday, just like they did in the 1st century.
Paul had to address them as they came along, so do we.
But we should really try to listen to what the other person is saying before jumping to conclusions.
And when not sure about what they mean, then simply ask.

Everybody has an interpretation.. so said Paul.
He also said all that we do should be for the edifying of the church, not that we should ignore discussion.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I believe there is a reason why people hear things differently and from different angles.
No one person has all the puzzle pieces to this life. And it will take a piece here and a piece there and a whole lot of patience with each other before it all becomes clear.
I believe that is the purpose. To bring us all to the table and edify each other.
Otherwise what need would we have to "work it out" , if we all already had all the answers?

Just my thoughts..
Hugs

 

[ScottA]

I'm trying to think of something that is not discussable in the body of Christ.
I mean everybody faces all kinds of things in the world everyday, just like they did in the 1st century.
Paul had to address them as they came along, so do we.
But we should really try to listen to what the other person is saying before jumping to conclusions.
And when not sure about what they mean, then simply ask.

Everybody has an interpretation.. so said Paul.
He also said all that we do should be for the edifying of the church, not that we should ignore discussion.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I believe there is a reason why people hear things differently and from different angles.
No one person has all the puzzle pieces to this life. And it will take a piece here and a piece there and a whole lot of patience with each other before it all becomes clear.
I believe that is the purpose. To bring us all to the table and edify each other.
Otherwise what need would we have to "work it out" , if we all already had all the answers?

Just my thoughts..
Hugs

Great post! You addressed somethings that I was not really getting at, but that is good.

I was mostly concerned with the out and out opinion vs. scripture squabbles and arguments.

You make a good point bringing up Paul. Peter also addressed the scriptures, saying "No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation." 2 Peter 1:20 Which is not to say that Jesus or the apostles, or even the Holy Spirit speaking through another person, cannot interpret, clarify, or bring revelation to something that was always true from scripture...Jesus did that with Divorce, and Paul did it with the mystery of marriage. It should be commonly understood among Christians that we live in such times--times that Jesus announced regarding the coming of the Helper, the Holy Spirit, as foretold by Joel the prophet, and confirmed by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

It's just the opinions that get in the way...and cause strife.

 

[Ziggy]

I was mostly concerned with the out and out opinion vs. scripture squabbles and arguments.

Opinion
An opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive, rather than facts, which are true statements.

Opinion or Fact?

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Opinion or Fact?

1Co 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Jesus said something about weighing things...
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I think opinions fall into this catagory of weighing the heavier matters.
I mean, a tithe is a tithe, that's a fact.
But when it comes to reasoning and determining you really should hear a well rounded measure of opinions to come to a fair and just conclusion.
One that everyone can find agreement with.

Kind of like the stoning of the woman.
Jesus "weighed" the situation.
Now the law says that if a man and woman are caught in the act of adultery then only the woman gets stoned...
no..
they both do.
But no one wanted to take resposibility of being the other guilty party. They had all been guilty at some point.

Or Solomon and the dividing of the child...

Some things aren't necessarily written in stone. And we're all trying to make the best judgment with what we have learned.
That's why listening to different ideas and opinions help us to understand each others views.

And I'm stepping into a discussion in which I have no idea of it's origens...
so ..
I'm just giving my view concerning Facts and Opinions..
in my opinion
Hugs

 

[Enoch111]

in my opinion

That should be IMHO.

 

[Ziggy]

That should be IMHO.

That's your opinion
:cool:

 

[Ziggy]

I was considering "divisions" and what came to mind was when Paul was saying:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Ce, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I think this is around the time when you had those who had been following John the Baptist, those that were following Jesus, those that were following Peter and those who were following Paul.

They were all trying to come together with the same understanding of everything that had just happened within a few years time.
At the same time you have those who are still following the law of Moses to the letter and those who are learning to follow the spirit of the letter.
At the same time you have multiple different religions from the different regions.
I'm sure it was probably a mess trying to cypher all the pieces together.

Not so different today with the many different denominations and religions trying desperately to sever that apart.
This didn't just begin a few years ago. A couple thousand years have gone by and many different opposing views and ideas have all come together like a big hodgepodge of ideas, and we are back at ground zero trying to work it out.

Maybe we never left ground zero.
Maybe that's the point...
There's a reason why God came down and took one look at that Babel tower and said.. hmm this isn't good, and confused all the languages.
Maybe it's so one "version" wouldn't have the preeminance over everyone.
Too much power in the hands of one "leader" .
Kind of like Nimrod.

It can't be "easy" . It has to be something we strive to learn and understand and work at coming together for.
Otherwise you end up with another Pharaoh or Beast, that controls all the narrative.

Just because someone says a thing is so, doesn't mean someone else shouldn't meditate and think on it and come to their own conclusion.
Conclusions change though..
there's always another door that opens once you think you have a thing figured out.

I like listening to other people's perspective even if I don't agree. Usually there is something you can come away with from a conversation that makes you go hmm. I never thought of it like that before.
Always seeking, always learning.. always getting that much closer.
But no one version ever having the entire picture.
We'll find that out when the work is done.
Until then we just keep ploughing and planting and watering and sowing and reaping..
God put man here to till the ground and keep it...
When he comes back we will know all and then we can rest.

Until then
Got yer shovel?
Let's go dig some treasure

HUGS

 

[ScottA]

Opinion
An opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclu
sive, rather than facts, which are true statements.

Opinion or Fact?

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Opinion or Fact?

1Co 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Jesus said something about weighing things...
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I think opinions fall into this catagory of weighing the heavier matters.
I mean, a tithe is a tithe, that's a fact.
But when it comes to reasoning and determining you really should hear a well rounded measure of opinions to come to a fair and just conclusion.
One that everyone can find agreement with.

Kind of like the stoning of the woman.
Jesus "weighed" the situation.
Now the law says that if a man and woman are caught in the act of adultery then only the woman gets stoned...
no..
they both do.
But no one wanted to take resposibility of being the other guilty party. They had all been guilty at some point.

Or Solomon and the dividing of the child...

Some things aren't necessarily written in stone. And we're all trying to make the best judgment with what we have learned.
That's why listening to different ideas and opinions help us to understand each others views.

And I'm stepping into a discussion in which I have no idea of it's origens...
so ..
I'm just giving my view concerning Facts and Opinions..
in my opinion
Hugs

Reasoning is good, but better to receive what is known by God, than to debate what men only speculate about. We were not left alone. Opinions and and judgments were never to take the place of God. They only light the path for those who walk according to His will. There are also many paths leading to destruction.