Dispensational Description

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Netchaplain

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There was never a time that God did not bring Israel back to Himself for fellowship after chastising them, due to His promises to Abraham (Deu 7:8). They often fell out of fellowship with Him, and are presently “fallen” out of fellowship with Him (Ro 11:11), but have never been out of union with Him! Therefore, there is yet a time and place when Israel in general will return to permanent fellowship with Him (as a people of God but not as children of God); and senseless would it be to conceive that God would abandon His people Israel, a union which has been established now for nearly 3300 millennia (1300bc; giving of the Law to Israel – 2000ad present time).
NC




Dispensational Description


The term “dispensation” used in the Word of God (1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; 3:2; Col 1:25) signifies a certain ordered administration for a certain period of time (e.g. the dispensing of the Law of Moses and of the Gospel of Christ are not the same method of operations, yet have the same goal, just performed in different manners, i.e. Law brought forgiveness but not renewal—NC). It may be called an economy, or the management of an organized system. In a larger and more general sense it is used to describe any period of time wherein God operated toward man in a particular manner. In a broader sense we might consider the following.

a) He first place man in an earthly paradise, but he was no sooner there that he sinned, and thereby died unto God. b) After the sin in Eden came expulsion from that Garden, and man (in a general sense—NC) was left to his own way (i.e. until the giving of the Law, which began with the Decalogue—NC). This in a strict sense could not be called a dispensation, for man was left to himself; but for our purpose we shall consider it as a special period. Here man showed himself to be utterly lawless—so much so that God destroyed all except Noah and his family with the Flood.

c) After the flood, God put government into the hands of man, and decreed, “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” (Gen 9:6); but then man turned to idolatry. See Romans 1 for the manner in which they turned to the worship of that which their hands made—images made like to men, to birds, to quadrupeds, to creeping things (or back to the serpent). d) Out of this prevalent condition of idolatry which came in when man gave up the traditional knowledge of God acquired through Noah’s posterity, God called the man Abraham and made a covenant with him; but he soon denied his wife and had to be reproved by a heathen (Gen 12:18; Gen 12:19).

e) After God’s allowing Abraham’s descendants to be enslaved in Egypt, He sent the man Moses to bring them forth; but ere long the children of Israel said, “Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.” f) At this time the Israelites had covenanted to obey which God would speak, and put themselves under the conditional agreement of keeping God’s Law (Exo 19:8). While Moses was away receiving the Words of God for them, they made the golden calf. g) God raised up the priesthood for Israel, but, as soon as it was instituted, it failed; and two of Aaron’s sons died the first day for offering “strange fire” (Lev 10:1, 2). It was more or less set aside in the days of aged Eli, for his sons had corrupted the people.

h) Afterward, God raised up a king David, “a man after His own heart.” But for a long time he was hunted and his life endangered, and his son Solomon brought idolatry into his own family circle (1Kings 11). After that, the kingdom was divided; and God had compassion on His people and sent messenger after messenger unto them, until the sins of Manasseh made judgement on them imperative. God brought a remnant back in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah, but the prophet Malachi describes the sad condition into which that remnant sank. j) Finally, God sent His only Son, saying (in typology—NC), “They will reverence My Son,” but Him they cast out and slew. This is a very brief outline of man’s pathway of failure from the first Adam to the Last Adam.

In this period which we live, God has been dealing in great grace and beseeching men to be reconciled to Him (2Cor 5:20). The Gospel first went forth from an ascended and glorified Christ to the Jews, or, as John Bunyan called them, “Jerusalem sinners.” The message was to begin in the very place where the Lord was crucified. Then the book of Acts outlines the carrying of the message from Jerusalem and Judea to Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth. Acts 1:8 is in substance a table of contents of Acts.

After Stephen’s death, the scenes began to change, for Israel has now rejected the Gospel sent down from heaven in the power of the Holy Spirit. From place to place through Acts, the Jews were given the Gospel first (“to the Jew first” - Rom 1:16; 2:10); but when they rejected it, it was then given to the Gentiles until, at length, in the last chapter, the sentence of judicial blindness (Acts 28:26), foretold by the prophet Isaiah (6:9), was place upon them; and Paul said to them, “Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and they will hear it” (v 28).

We are now living in the end of the period of God’s special grace to the Gentiles; it is spoken of as “the fullness of the Gentiles” in Romans 11:25.Their fullness will come in when the Lord calls His Church home to be with Himself. For this blessed moment we wait. God has been visiting the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name (Acts 15:14), but they are a people destined for heaven. We should, however, keep in mind that in the Church of God there has always been a saved remnant of the Jews. At the first (Acts 2:47) only Jews or Jewish proselytes were brought into the Church. Already a man had been saved (Acts 9) who was to be the Lord’s special messenger to the Gentiles.

Strictly speaking, the Church period is not a dispensation in the sense of an administration of God’s way on earth, but a gathering out of a people for heaven; however, we shall consider it as a special period of God’s way while He makes known His purpose and plans not only for them, but also for the earth. He has treated us in this age as His “friends” (Jn 15: 14, 15). Perhaps we should consider the Church period as merely a long parenthesis in God’s ways “for” the earth (i.e. but not “on” the earth, for it is my belief that Christ and his will rule the new earth from the new heaven, but not dwell on it—NC).

When the Church has been translated to heaven, then God’s ways (of which Israel will be the center on earth) will begin to unfold, and a time is to follow, called “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer 30:7). He (remnant of Israel) will be saved “out of it,” like Noah was saved out of the Flood, while the Church has been promised by the Lord that it will be kept out of the hour of it—altogether kept from the time of it (Rev 3:10), as Enoch was taken away before the Flood came. For the “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (the nation Israel—NC) will also be “the great tribulation” which “shall come upon the whole world.”

After the Rapture of the Church, apostasy of both Christendom and Judaism will mount up to their peaks to receive the judgements already decreed. The spirit of apostasy has been at work as a mystery since the days of Paul, for he speaks of “the mystery of iniquity” (2Thes 2:7); and John wrote that there were already many “antichrists” (1Jo 2:18). But the thing, although far advanced, will not be full blown until we are taken from the scene. Then there will be the attempted complete overthrow of all reverence for God, and even the mention of His name. It will be man in daring infidelity who will blaspheme God. Man will be deified, but overthrown in the end. Apostate Christendom and apostate Judaism will perish, while a remnant will be saved for the Kingdom.


—Paul Wilson (1899-1966)






MJS devotional for June 30


NO CROSS, NO CHRIST!

“WHOSOEVER DOTH NOT BEAR HIS CROSS, AND COME AFTER ME, CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE” (LUKE 14:27).

One hears much today about “body life,” with its emphasis upon New Testament gathering, rather than Christ-centered growth. The Body is meant to manifest the Head, and that necessitates spiritual members. -MJS

“Where there is no Cross there is no life, and no ministry of life. The object of suffering is that there may be a full and abundant ministry. . . . We are not to invite trouble, nor by austerity to ill-treat our bodies. The Holy Spirit Himself takes responsibility for our experience, leading us in paths where we encounter, in body, heart, or spirit, that measure of ‘the dying of Jesus’ that will mean enrichment of our ministry.”

“There are many today who seem to think that it is all or largely a matter of the order, technique, and form, and if we are to return to the ‘New Testament’ form or order of churches all would be well. The fact is that, while certain things characterize the N.T. churches, the Word does not give us a complete pattern according to which churches are to be formed!

“There is no blueprint for churches in the N.T., and to try to form such churches is only to create another system which may be as legal, sectarian and dead as others. Churches, like the Church, are organisms which spring out of life, which life itself springs out of the Cross of Christ wrought into the very being of believers. Unless believers are crucified people, there can be no true expression of the Church.” -T. A-S.

“GOD FORBID THAT I SHOULD GLORY, EXCEPT IN THE CROSS” (GAL. 6:14).
None But The Hungry Heart
 

Davy

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The below is the start of John Darby's Theory of Dispensationalism based on a False Pre-trib Rapture theory that he taught in 1830's Britain, one of the first preachers to teach the theory...

We are now living in the end of the period of God’s special grace to the Gentiles; it is spoken of as “the fullness of the Gentiles” in Romans 11:25.Their fullness will come in when the Lord calls His Church home to be with Himself. For this blessed moment we wait. God has been visiting the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name (Acts 15:14), but they are a people destined for heaven. We should, however, keep in mind that in the Church of God there has always been a saved remnant of the Jews. At the first (Acts 2:47) only Jews or Jewish proselytes were brought into the Church. Already a man had been saved (Acts 9) who was to be the Lord’s special messenger to the Gentiles.

The actual Bible Scripture declares Lord Jesus coming HERE, back to this earth, and to here is where He gathers His Church. The Zechariah 14 Scripture specifically reveals His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, bringing all... His saints with Him. So ideas like living up in the clouds is not written. What is written about the clouds is HOW He is seen coming with clouds, doesn't mean He will hang-out in those clouds, as Zechariah 14 does testify.


Also, that event of Jesus' future return and gathering of His Church, happens on the LAST DAY of this present world, ending this present world (Matthew 24; Mark 13; 1 Thessalonians 5; 2 Peter 3:10).


Strictly speaking, the Church period is not a dispensation in the sense of an administration of God’s way on earth, but a gathering out of a people for heaven; however, we shall consider it as a special period of God’s way while He makes known His purpose and plans not only for them, but also for the earth. He has treated us in this age as His “friends” (Jn 15: 14, 15). Perhaps we should consider the Church period as merely a long parenthesis in God’s ways “for” the earth (i.e. but not “on” the earth, for it is my belief that Christ and his will rule the new earth from the new heaven, but not dwell on it—NC).

When the Church has been translated to heaven, then God’s ways (of which Israel will be the center on earth) will begin to unfold, and a time is to follow, called “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer 30:7). He (remnant of Israel) will be saved “out of it,” like Noah was saved out of the Flood, while the Church has been promised by the Lord that it will be kept out of the hour of it—altogether kept from the time of it (Rev 3:10), as Enoch was taken away before the Flood came. For the “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (the nation Israel—NC) will also be “the great tribulation” which “shall come upon the whole world.”

After the Rapture of the Church, apostasy of both Christendom and Judaism will mount up to their peaks to receive the judgements already decreed. The spirit of apostasy has been at work as a mystery since the days of Paul, for he speaks of “the mystery of iniquity” (2Thes 2:7); and John wrote that there were already many “antichrists” (1Jo 2:18). But the thing, although far advanced, will not be full blown until we are taken from the scene. Then there will be the attempted complete overthrow of all reverence for God, and even the mention of His name. It will be man in daring infidelity who will blaspheme God. Man will be deified, but overthrown in the end. Apostate Christendom and apostate Judaism will perish, while a remnant will be saved for the Kingdom.


—Paul Wilson (1899-1966)

As I said before, God's Holy Writ does not teach any such Pre-tribulational Rapture idea of the Church.

That fellow who wrote that got the idea from John Darby and his followers. In the U.S., one of Darby's followers, Cyrus Scofield (1843-1921), was one of the preachers that helped push the pre-trib rapture theory in America, and even put together his own study Bible pushing the idea.

Lord Jesus taught that the day of His future return and gathering of His Church is AFTER the tribulation He warned of (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

Why is this so important to get right per God's Word?

It's because a false-Messiah is coming first to proclaim himself as The Christ, with the power to do great signs and wonders and miracles. Jesus doesn't come until after that false one comes first to deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect who listen to Him, and wait for Him. This is why Apostle Paul said he wanted to present the believer on Jesus as "a chaste virgin", meaning a chaste spiritual virgin waiting on His coming.
 

Netchaplain

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The actual Bible Scripture declares Lord Jesus coming HERE, back to this earth, and to here is where He gathers His Church. The Zechariah 14 Scripture specifically reveals His feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1, bringing all... His saints with Him. So ideas like living up in the clouds is not written. What is written about the clouds is HOW He is seen coming with clouds, doesn't mean He will hang-out in those clouds, as Zechariah 14 does testify.
Hi, and appreciate your reply and comments, though we have different understandings about much of this article. It's my understanding that we will be with the Lord Jesus on this present earth ruling with Him for a millennia, then after the creation of the new heaven and earth we will "dwell" (Rev 21:3) with Him in the new heaven, which will involve the New Jerusalem coming down from God but it doesn't clearly show this new City going to the new earth, just that the heavenly dwellers and the earthly dwellers meeting their.

What I believe concerning Rev 20-22 is so different from many believers that I cannot share it with them without much confusion between us, because it is what most Bible commentators agree on concerning them, and most believers still do not use commentators enough for a helpful understanding of these issues.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Hi, and appreciate your reply and comments, though we have different understandings about much of this article. It's my understanding that we will be with the Lord Jesus on this present earth ruling with Him for a millennia, then after the creation of the new heaven and earth we will "dwell" (Rev 21:3) with Him in the new heaven, which will involve the New Jerusalem coming down from God but it doesn't clearly show this new City going to the new earth, just that the heavenly dwellers and the earthly dwellers meeting their.

What I believe concerning Rev 20-22 is so different from many believers that I cannot share it with them without much confusion between us, because it is what most Bible commentators agree on concerning them, and most believers still do not use commentators enough for a helpful understanding of these issues.

Well if we take the Word as written (which dispensationalism does) we won't reign with Jesus on earth.

Teh church will be in heaven, and those who did not accept the mark and were beheaded, these are the ones who regin with Jesus on the earth!

Revelation 20:4
King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

Davy

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Hi, and appreciate your reply and comments, though we have different understandings about much of this article. It's my understanding that we will be with the Lord Jesus on this present earth ruling with Him for a millennia, then after the creation of the new heaven and earth we will "dwell" (Rev 21:3) with Him in the new heaven, which will involve the New Jerusalem coming down from God but it doesn't clearly show this new City going to the new earth, just that the heavenly dwellers and the earthly dwellers meeting their.

What I believe concerning Rev 20-22 is so different from many believers that I cannot share it with them without much confusion between us, because it is what most Bible commentators agree on concerning them, and most believers still do not use commentators enough for a helpful understanding of these issues.

By your quoting that article by Paul Wilson, you reveal your support of John Nelson Darby's 1830's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory and Darby's brand of Dispensationalism, which he based on that false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

We should both have the SAME understanding from God's Word as written, and we would IF you had stayed with IT instead of heeding men's leaven doctrines like those who followed Darby.

Lord Jesus revealed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, emphatically, that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the "great tribulation" He warned of. That Scripture is NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Either one believes what He said, or they do not. And anyone... who believes on a Pre-trib Rapture theory has made their choice to DENY what my Lord Jesus taught there in those Scriptures.

We have different understandings then?? Yeah, you bet! I choose to stick with what Lord Jesus taught about the timing of His future return to gather His saints. But you do not, IF you keep to the false pre-trib rapture theory, and I'm not afraid to call you out for it.


I remember a brother I'd never met before at a store, out of the blue, started asking me Bible questions. I asked if he knew me, heard of me, or whatever, and he said he had not, but that God had sent me, because he said he'd been praying for understanding in some of the Bible questions he had. So he invited me over with him and his wife for a Bible study. But the address he gave me was his mother and father's house! His brother and his wife was there too. I came to understand that because his parents belonged to a Church that taught Preterism, and did not believe in a Pre-trib Rapture theory, but his brother and wife instead went to pre-trib rapture Church, that there was conflict the brother was having. I was led by The Holy Spirit to cover the Zechariah 14 Chapter, which reveals the events of Lord Jesus's future return, on the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this present world, and also bringing all His saints to the Mount of Olives, ON EARTH, with Him, and His reign then begins right then, on earth with His elect saints.

Did they understand all that? No, not even a little... bit! Maybe later God brought them back to re-study that Zechariah 14 Chapter, and God only allowed me to plant a seed with them. But that Chapter counters the falseness taught by the Pre-trib Rapture theory, and Darby's Dispensationalist ideas about the Church reigning with Jesus from Heaven, which such ideas are NOT written.
 

Netchaplain

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Well if we take the Word as written (which dispensationalism does) we won't reign with Jesus on earth.

Teh church will be in heaven, and those who did not accept the mark and were beheaded, these are the ones who regin with Jesus on the earth!

Revelation 20:4
King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Hi and thanks for your input! Rev 20 shows Christ and the saved on the old earth (vs 8, 9) during the Millennium, for the new earth and heaven aren't until the proceeding chapter (and I don't see this happening in the old heaven, but on the old earth as it states).

God bless!
 

Netchaplain

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By your quoting that article by Paul Wilson, you reveal your support of John Nelson Darby's 1830's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory and Darby's brand of Dispensationalism, which he based on that false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

We should both have the SAME understanding from God's Word as written, and we would IF you had stayed with IT instead of heeding men's leaven doctrines like those who followed Darby.
Appreciate your reply and comments, even though we disagree on Eschatology. Thankfully how one understands the end time has no effect on being saved. Only what we understand concerning the Gospel of Christ will determine being saved or not.

God bless!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Hi and thanks for your input! Rev 20 shows Christ and the saved on the old earth (vs 8, 9) during the Millennium, for the new earth and heaven aren't until the proceeding chapter (and I don't see this happening in the old heaven, but on the old earth as it states).

God bless!

Yes Chapter 20 takes place on the old earth that has been restored! remember the plagues destroyed nearly all the earth. So Jesus restores it to near Edenic perfection so the survivors of the trib who enter His kingdom can live and repopulate the earth.
 

Netchaplain

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Yes Chapter 20 takes place on the old earth that has been restored! remember the plagues destroyed nearly all the earth. So Jesus restores it to near Edenic perfection so the survivors of the trib who enter His kingdom can live and repopulate the earth.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "restored" because the restoration I have in mind is a completely different new earth after the old earth "passes away" (Rev 21:1).
 

Ronald Nolette

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I suppose it depends on what you mean by "restored" because the restoration I have in mind is a completely different new earth after the old earth "passes away" (Rev 21:1).

Well Rev. 21 gives us a NEW heaven and NEW earth. Not a restored one. Remember the seals, trumpets and bowls nearly wipe out planet earth. Not a good place to live and repopulate if Jesus dd dnot do something to make it habitable and pleasant again.

After the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, and after the Great White throne judgment God destroys the present universe and brings a new one to place- not a restored one.
 

Dropship

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There was never a time that God did not bring Israel back to Himself for fellowship after chastising them, due to His promises to Abraham (Deu 7:8). They often fell out of fellowship with Him, and are presently “fallen” out of fellowship with Him (Ro 11:11), but have never been out of union with Him!...

God certainly had the Jews backs in Old T times because he wanted them to found a nation where he could send his son.
But when he arrived they blotted their copybook by killing him, so if they think God will cut them some slack on judgement day they've got another think coming UNLESS they repent before they die and become Christians..:)

rel god-point2 (1).jpg
 

Netchaplain

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God certainly had the Jews backs in Old T times because he wanted them to found a nation where he could send his son.
But when he arrived they blotted their copybook by killing him, so if they think God will cut them some slack on judgement day they've got another think coming UNLESS they repent before they die and become Christians..:)

View attachment 24265
Hi and thanks for your reply! Only those of Israel who believed in God (Jn 14:1) were always drawn back to Himself, which I believe the Millennium is when He draws them permanently. They will see Christ and finally believe in Him, but they will miss inheriting the new heaven and will remain on the new earth.
 

Dropship

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Hi and thanks for your reply! Only those of Israel who believed in God (Jn 14:1) were always drawn back to Himself, which I believe the Millennium is when He draws them permanently. They will see Christ and finally believe in Him, but they will miss inheriting the new heaven and will remain on the new earth.

The bottom line is that if there are going to be nonchristians in heaven, I don't wanna go..:)
 

Netchaplain

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The bottom line is that if there are going to be nonchristians in heaven, I don't wanna go..:)
I wouldn't either, but there will be two peoples (God's people Israel who believe in Him - Jn 14:1) and two places (New Heaven and New Earth); but Israel's eschatology will mostly be unrealized by most Christians until His appearance.
 

Ronald Nolette

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God certainly had the Jews backs in Old T times because he wanted them to found a nation where he could send his son.
But when he arrived they blotted their copybook by killing him, so if they think God will cut them some slack on judgement day they've got another think coming UNLESS they repent before they die and become Christians..:)

View attachment 24265

In the church age yes they must become Christians. but the church age ends at teh rapture and tribulation saints are separate from the church.

But God has explicitly declared that in the last days
1. He would bring Israel back to their land.
2. Bring them back in His fury.
3. Judge them
4.Purge the rebels from them.
6. 2/3 of all Jews alive at the start of the trib will die.
7. the remaining 1/3 will be saved
8. the millennial kingdom will be when God fulfills all His promises to Israel as a nation. The saved that is from the OT and the trib period.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Will the 1/3 no longer be jews but will be Christians?

If by christians you mean part of the church or the body of Christ? The answer is no. the church was born at Pentecost and ends at the rapture.

Just like the OT believing Jews are saved but not part of the body of Christ, so to are the saints who get saved after the rapture. They are saved but they also are not part of the body of Christ! these are distinctions for placement in the millenial kingdom on earth, but how eternity plays out, we will have to wait and see.
 

farouk

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If by christians you mean part of the church or the body of Christ? The answer is no. the church was born at Pentecost and ends at the rapture.

Just like the OT believing Jews are saved but not part of the body of Christ, so to are the saints who get saved after the rapture. They are saved but they also are not part of the body of Christ! these are distinctions for placement in the millenial kingdom on earth, but how eternity plays out, we will have to wait and see.
@Ronald Nolette I would have thought the Pentecost - Rapture definition was foundational, indeed.