Dispensationalism

[rockytopva]

Why don't you and Joel Osteen just go away on a princes cruse where you can talk about the floffy puffy feel good about being rich new

I came here to Virginia with a suitcase in hand, a 69' Buick, and $500. I have worked my way up to Lab Technician at the local factory and have sent myself to school earning two AAS degrees Magna Cum Laude. I am satisfied and thankful for the Lord helping me along the way. I have been out of debt for 5 years and these are my best years now!

 

[Rex]

and these are my best years now!

One of Joel Olsteens proverbs

You are right about your first post rocky

He stood on the bank and called for the rough and rugged (in your own words 'dumber then dirt people') fishermen to be his disciples.

I have $23 dollars to my name right now, and a 1993 Chevy apache and this is where the Lord has placed me, the fire on the mountain is burned down so you'll be hearing less from me tomorrow, the evacuation band has been lifted, I've been clearing land from around a retired couples home for the last two months. I absolutely love it, I'm turning there place into a park "so to speak" so they can enjoy the few last years they have, plus it provides safety from wild fires. I for got I $5 and some change on my wal-mart card. I wouldn't trade places with you for the world. Or any one else for that matter.

Luke 16:25 -->> have your best life now

.............

 

[rockytopva]

John Wesley said... "When a man dies they should have enough to bury him and a few pence for his friends."

 

[Rex]

Maybe some day you'll know the world for what it really is, you'll be able to put your cares to the side and walk with your hand in the hand of the Lord "walk by faith" your really missing out rocky. I could tell you some stories yes I could, but I'm certain you simply wouldn't understand.

Now that you have change the subject point to John Wesley rocky

Rex... The Lord Jesus, when time came to picking his disciples, did not court the Scribes, Pharisees, or the Sadducees. He stood on the bank and called for the rough and rugged (in your own words 'dumber then dirt people') fishermen to be his disciples.

Have a nice princes cruse rocky where you off to next?

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17838-carnival-dream/
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17938-leaving-st-thomas/

Or maybe you would like to talk about why your not living the life Jesus and the disciples did
And I tell you how I'm doing just that, buy Gods grace and my willingness to follow.

 

[Divinsoteriology]

D.S. .... I have written the following in my own words to clarify my position on the topic. Thanks.

According to some people here I fall under the label of dispensationalist
But it is not simply to distinguish between Israel and the church (which I do at times)
If I am a dispensationalist .... it is because I feel God Himself is a dispensationalist

But the definition of dispensationalism varies from person to person ... and that creates it's own set of problems and disagreements.

God dealt with people in the time of Noah in a unique way (dispensation) ..... and God dealt with people in a unique way during the times of Moses (another dispensation) .... God dealt with people in a unique and different way when Christ came (another dispensation).... and he also has more unique (dispensations) to come such as .... the completion of the church age .... then the great tribulation .... then the 1000 year reign .... and then everything made new for eternity .... etc etc etc .... we call them "dispensations" for lack of a better ""word"".

I find it puzzling why the furious-anti-dispensationalists never provide an alternative ""word"" to use .... so in the meantime we continue to use the ""word"" dispensation .

I cannot agree with that.. According to Hebrews 11, o.t. saints where saved in the same way we are, by faith. Yes, I understand that the Jews were given the law. However, the purpose of the law was not to save, it was to lead us to Christ. God deals with me differently then he does you, does that mean I belong to a different dispensation than you?

Now when it comes to the distinction between Israel and the church I systematically explain it below ....

Originally God categorized people into 2 groups ....
1. Israel (the chosen people) ....
2. Pagan Gentiles (Idol worshipers without God)

Christ came .... and there were now 3 groups ....
1. believing Israel ....
2. unbelieving Israel ...
3. pagan gentiles

Shortly afterwards God made salvation available to the Gentiles and there were now 4 groups .....
1. believing Israel .....
2. unbelieving Israel .....
3. believing gentiles ....
4. unbelieving gentiles.

Those 4 groups continue today and we know them as....
1. believing Israel ..... (Messianic Jews)
2. unbelieving Israel ..... (The worldwide Jewish population and most of the citizens of Israel )
3. believing gentiles .... (The worldwide Christian church)
4. unbelieving gentiles .... (Various pagan religions , the non-religious , atheists etc)

(note: ... no doubt many of the Jewish believers eventually assimilated into the western christian church and blended into "one" under Christ) .... (another interesting quirk is that circumcision was practiced by many in the Christian church right up to today .... which would have been a carryover from the Jews .... because originally circumcision was a purely a Jewish ritual)

Now I make a decisive point regarding the future ....

In the future God will still deal with people in those 4 distinct groups

1. God has unique future plans for the believing Christian Church
2. God has unique future plans for the unbelieving pagan gentile
3. God has unique future plans for the Messianic Jew
4. God has unique future plans for unbelieving Israel

Most of us could mostly agree on most of the above points ... until it comes to the unique future plans God has for unbelieving Israel .... that is when the sparks start to fly among us ..... because some of those future plans turn out to be favorable for unbelieving Israel and we can not reconcile it in our minds because they have reject Christ and salvation as we know it .

If a jew believes in Christ, then yes, as you said they are assimilated into the church. Therefore there is no distinction, as the passage in Galations reads. The messianic jew is a christian, and therefore heirs of the promises that were made to Christ. The millenial kingdom was not promised to the jews but to Christ, and all those who are His.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Unbelieving Israel was scattered in AD 70 ..... regathered in 1948 .... and now God will do favorable things For Israel .... whether we like it or not .... and as i have said many times .... He does it for his own reasons and His Holy name ......... here is a glimpse of the next dispensation for Israel


Ezekiel 36

16 Again the word of the Lord came to me: 17 “Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. 18 So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. 19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!
33 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35 They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” 36 Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the Lord have spoken, and I will do it.’
37 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Once again I will yield to Israel’s plea and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, 38 as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed festivals. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”

 

[[email protected]]

Dispensationalism seems to be a very popular perspective on the bible as a whole. One of its major distinctive is the separation between Israel and the church. One thing I do not understand is, why continue to make a distinction when Paul clearly taught us that the promises were not made to Israel, that they were made to Christ.

“Brothers and sisters, I offer an example from everyday life: When a covenant has been ratified, even though it is only a human contract, no one can set it aside or add anything to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his descendant. Scripture does not say, “and to the descendants,” referring to many, but “and to your descendant,” referring to one, who is Christ.” (Galatians 3:15–16, NET)

If we trust in Christ, then we are heirs to the promise via Christ. All blessings come through Christ alone.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:28–29, NET)

There is only one way of salvation, one way of blessing. It does not come via your ethnic line, but through faith in Christ.

The dispensationalist rubbish forced upon gullible American protestants by John Nelson Darby in the mid 19th century continues to this day despite the march of history, the persuasion of logic and the cautions of Holy Writ. Because of the so called popularity of this bogus fiction, millions have been persuaded of heresies such as the rapture and have been led into the anti-semitic doctrines of spiritual Israel.

Darby was a spiritist and as such was heavily influenced by demonic ideologies which he then published in America. Jesus warned against such things, but His warnings have fallen upon deaf ears - ears which are tickled by the fanciful convolutions in logic dispensationalism affords.

It is better to memorize comic book frames and stories than to believe for one instant that any of Darby's tripe follows Biblical principle - for even the devil loves to quote scripture to advance its interests.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...