Dispensationalism
- Thread starter CoreIssue
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https://bellatorchristi.com/2017/12...-between-covenantalism-and-dispensationalism/
Covenant theology believes in replacement theology. A biblical nonstarter.
Speaking for myself, I believe God has operated in grace towards man from day one.
Yes, I believe in periods of time throughout history. But not as a change in salvation, but a constant new revelation building upon what was already revealed.
Here is what I see as the time periods.
Innocence
Conscience
Mosaic law for Israel while conscience for everyone else. Israel was supposed to be the nation of missionaries. It failed.
The church age. But for the beginning conscience still was active in the world. The church is failing as well.
At the rapture the new covenant to the houses of Israel and Judah. Israel will then succeed at being missionaries. But mankind will continue in rebellion.
Then eternity.
So I am not a classical dispensation. I simply realize God's plan for man evolved over time. But God and his saving grace have always been here.
Covenant theology believes in replacement theology. A biblical nonstarter.
Speaking for myself, I believe God has operated in grace towards man from day one.
Yes, I believe in periods of time throughout history. But not as a change in salvation, but a constant new revelation building upon what was already revealed.
Here is what I see as the time periods.
Innocence
Conscience
Mosaic law for Israel while conscience for everyone else. Israel was supposed to be the nation of missionaries. It failed.
The church age. But for the beginning conscience still was active in the world. The church is failing as well.
At the rapture the new covenant to the houses of Israel and Judah. Israel will then succeed at being missionaries. But mankind will continue in rebellion.
Then eternity.
So I am not a classical dispensation. I simply realize God's plan for man evolved over time. But God and his saving grace have always been here.
There is no such thing as "replacement Theology". It's a straw man attack that speaks of the cluelessness of the attacker.
You have not been paying attention. Both the Catholic Church and the Protestant churches believe in Replacement Theology -- that the Church has replaced Israel in God's plans and purposes. However, that is simply not true.
It's a false concept. Here's why. According to Paul, Jesus is Abraham's seed [who would come through Isaac], not the unbelieving Jews. Israel and Abraham's seed are one and the same in the OT. So Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him. God removed the unbelievers from Israel and grafted believing gentiles into their place.
Why do you muddy the waters with "unbelieving Jews"?
All unbelievers -- Jews and Gentiles -- are excluded from the Kingdom of God. That is a given. Redeemed and restored Israel, however, will consist strictly of believing Jews -- the believing remnant.
I have posted a thread on Abraham, Christ, the Church, and Israel. Read it and see for yourself that believing Israel will occupy the land between the Nile and the Euphrates for an everlasting possession.
Actually, God said Abraham was to be the "father of many nations", not just a single nation, Israel. Many nations = Israel + other nations (not Israel).
So then Abraham is the father of both Israel and other nations, those other nations as they come to faith, since Abraham is Not the father of the faithless.
So then this rules out the single nation concept.
Much love!
As to dispensations, I don't know why people have such a difficulty with the idea.
House Law - the way a household is managed = oikonomia = dispensation = the manner in which something is dispensed.
God told Abraham he would have many children. Abraham believed God and God counted it to him for righteousness.
Now, God isn't telling us about our families, His message has changed. Now He tells us to believe in Jesus. Same grace, same faith, same God, different message, so different way to dispense the same grace through the same faith.
Much love!
House Law - the way a household is managed = oikonomia = dispensation = the manner in which something is dispensed.
God told Abraham he would have many children. Abraham believed God and God counted it to him for righteousness.
Now, God isn't telling us about our families, His message has changed. Now He tells us to believe in Jesus. Same grace, same faith, same God, different message, so different way to dispense the same grace through the same faith.
Much love!
You dwelling on Abraham etc. is exactly what
Blows into covenant theology do.
I made it quite clear I am not into the version of dispensationalism you keep going on. Neither are a lot of others.
But replacement theology sure has no place in the Bible. Nor do your claims.
Watch the video. See if you can deal with what he says there since he is not into the form of dispensationalism you do on either.
Yes it does. Non-Christian Jews. Non-Christian gentiles and Christian Jews and Gentiles.
The body of Christ is the co-heirs Israel and church.
The church is all believers from the resurrection of Christ to the rapture.
But that is irrelevant to dispensations.
Here is my view dispensation.
Innocence
Conscience
Mosaic law for Israel while conscience for everyone else. Israel was supposed to be the nation of missionaries. It failed.
The church age. But for the beginning conscience still was active in the world. The church is failing as well.
At the rapture the new covenant to the houses of Israel and Judah. Israel will then succeed at being missionaries. But mankind will continue in rebellion.
Then eternity.
Here is more classical view.
Covenant theology does away with Israel, but the Bible does not.
After the rapture the groups are Israel, tribulation saints and everyone else.
In the MK it is Israel, Gentile Saints and everyone else.
What never changes is the grace of God and the blood of Christ, whether by promise or immediate fulfillment via the Holy Spirit.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Thank God for the Jewish people!! Jesus is a Jew, Mary is a Jew. The Holy Bible is a Jewish Book written almost entirely by Jews as inspired by God.
I believe it was written entirely by Jews. But that does not make it a Jewish book.
I believe Luke is held not to be a Jew. We know Nebuchadnezzar wasn't Jewish. Luke contributed a lot, and Nebuchadnezzar a little, even so, those are two.
Much love!
Nebuchadnezzar did not write anything in the Bible and he died of pagan.
The Bible does not tell us if he was a Jew or Gentile. But scholars I've read that I respect say he was a Jew.
This is the part from Nebuchadnezzar:
From Daniel 4:
1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.
2 I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me.
3 How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:
5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.
7 Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my God, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.
13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
<snip>
34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
Hi CoreIssue,
I imagine you are talking about Luke here. I don't think the Bible says for certain, but there is this:
Colossian 4:10-14
10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him
11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
13 For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis.
14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.
Aristarchus, Marcus, Barnabas, Jesus, called Justus, are all named "of the circumcision". Epaphras, Luke, and Demas are named separately.
Why the segregation in names? Why call these "of the curcumcision", and not the others? To me this indicates that Epaphras, Luke, and Demas are not. But I wouldn't be dogmatic about it.
And we don't know the authorship of Job either. Of do we? Do we know?
Much love!
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