Divisions

[BreadOfLife]

TBH BoL, those scriptures you offered proclaim Jesus as being the Son of God, not God. It is your own inference that makes Jesus equal to God because He is His Son. Not saying you are wrong in your inference, but not even Jesus, not even once, claimed to be God. One with the Father, yes. His Son, yes. Did He accept worship? Yes. But He also clearly declared who the only one and true God is...His Father.

If Jesus is NOT God - then He would have rebuked Thomas for falling to his knees and proclaiming Him as "My Lord and my GOD!"
If He was NOT God and didn't rebuke Thomas - then He would have been in grave sin.

Anyway - I listed SOME of the verses that proclaim Jesus as God - not ALL of them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Making up LIES is an old and childish MO.
LOL

Let's make this easy for you.
Why don't YOU tell me who Mary have birth to?

Was He just a baby - or was He a BOTH man and God?
This shouldn't be too difficult for you . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Word is Logos in the Greek. There is only one Logos, the second person of the Trinity.
He became Jesus Christ, nowhere does it say he was Jesus Christ pre-incarnate.
Dual natures, fully God in the spirit and fully human in the flesh.
You want to say co-mingled to be one person in totality.

Again, you're claiming that Mary gave birth to a NATURE - and not to a PERSON.

Even YOUR mother didn't give birth to a mere "nature" - but to a PERSON. Your mother gave birth to a person who ALSO has a soul. She didn't create you - but she gave BIRTH to you.

The SAME is true for Mary - and THIS is what was declared at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

The PERSON of Christ is BOTH God and Man.
He was BOTH God and Man when she conceived Him by the Holy Spirit.
He was BOTH God and Man when she carried Him for 9 months.
He BOTH God and Man when she gave birth to Him.

She didn't "create" Him - but she gave BIRTH to Him.
NOT that difficult to process . . .

 

[brakelite]

If Jesus is NOT God - then He would have rebuked Thomas for falling to his knees and proclaiming Him as "My Lord and my GOD!"
If He was NOT God and didn't rebuke Thomas - then He would have been in grave sin.

Anyway - I listed SOME of the verses that proclaim Jesus as God - not ALL of them.

I didn't say Jesus was not God BoL. He is... But scripture does not "proclaim' it as clearly as you would like. .. And Jesus himself did not. I agree with you regarding Thomas... Thomas spoke truth. But we need to be clear as to WHY Jesus is worshipped... Why we may call Him God. It is NOT because scripture says so in so many words... Jesus is God... It is because scripture says... Jesus is the Son of God... There is a difference.
We worship Jesus as God because as the Son, He has inherited His Father's name, and had been given His Father's divine attributes. Thus He is God in the fullest sense because He is His Father's Son. Just as I am human because my (late)father was human.
So the Son is equal to His Father in every respect, except in age, and in rank. "My Father is greater than I".

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say Jesus was not God BoL. He is... But scripture does not "proclaim' it as clearly as you would like. .. And Jesus himself did not. I agree with you regarding Thomas... Thomas spoke truth. But we need to be clear as to WHY Jesus is worshipped... Why we may call Him God. It is NOT because scripture says so in so many words... Jesus is God... It is because scripture says... Jesus is the Son of God... There is a difference.
We worship Jesus as God because as the Son, He has inherited His Father's name, and had been given His Father's divine attributes. Thus He is God in the fullest sense because He is His Father's Son. Just as I am human because my (late)father was human.
So the Son is equal to His Father in every respect, except in age, and in rank. "My Father is greater than I".

I don't know what "Bible" you're reading - but Scripture is pretty explicit and extremely implicit about the fact that Christ is GOD - moreso than would be required by ANY court . . .

Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and Saviour Jesus Christ

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't know what "Bible" you're reading - but Scripture is pretty explicit and extremely implicit about the fact that Christ is GOD - moreso than would be required by ANY court . . .

Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 06005 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
lawnmm[ from (05973) and (0410) with a pronominal suffix inserted
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
`Immanuw'el TWOT - 1640d
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
im-maw-noo-ale' Proper Name Masculine
Definition
Immanuel = "God with us" or "with us is God"

God with us the of the incarnation. Meaning God entered the flesh of Jesus Christ was not all flesh Jesus Christ.

You keep saying God can die.

1. symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be 'God with us'

 

[Enoch111]

Meaning God entered the flesh of Jesus Christ was not all flesh Jesus Christ.

CoreIssue, you continue to be thoroughly confused about the most simple and basic of doctrines. Jesus of Nazareth was the God-Man at all times. He is God the Word or God the Son, not the Father(who is generally called "God" in the NT). And He took upon Himself a human body.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 06005 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
lawnmm[ from (05973) and (0410) with a pronominal suffix inserted
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
`Immanuw'el TWOT - 1640d
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
im-maw-noo-ale' Proper Name Masculine
Definition
Immanuel = "God with us" or "with us is God"

God with us the of the incarnation. Meaning God entered the flesh of Jesus Christ was not all flesh Jesus Christ.
You keep saying God can die.

1. symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be 'God with us'

No - I never said that God can die. I also never said that Jesus's flesh was divine.
Why don't you try being honest - just for once??

Finally - there was nothing "symbolic" about Isaiah's prophesy regarding "Immanuel".
"God with us" TRULY happened, as John wrote in his Gospel:
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

CoreIssue, you continue to be thoroughly confused about the most simple and basic of doctrines. Jesus of Nazareth was the God-Man at all times. He is God the Word or God the Son, not the Father(who is generally called "God" in the NT). And He took upon Himself a human body.

You are the one was mistaken.

You have repeatedly claimed Jesus Christ is eternal, which is false.

You have said God died on the cross, which is false.

Jesus Christ the man is not God. He is the flesh God inhabited. The spirit in Jesus Christ is God.

All the old writings declare his dual nature. Fully God and fully man. God in man, not man in God.

The real you is your spirit in your body, which the Bible calls a vessel of your spirit.

Same with the second person, the Word. He took on the vessel Jesus Christ.

A soul is the totality of the spirit and flesh working together. That does not make the flesh spirit or the spirit flesh.

 

[CoreIssue]

No - I never said that God can die. I also never said that Jesus's flesh was divine.
Why don't you try being honest - just for once??

Finally - there was nothing "symbolic" about Isaiah's prophesy regarding "Immanuel".
"God with us" TRULY happened, as John wrote in his Gospel:
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth.

But Catholicism says God was born of Mary.

And it teaches God died on the cross because Jesus died on the cross and he is God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But Catholicism says God was born of Mary.
And it teaches God died on the cross because Jesus died on the cross and he is God.

Jesus WAS born of Mary. The BIBLE teaches this:

- He was God when He was conceived in Mary's womb (Luke 1:30-38).
- He was God when He was carried in Mary's womb (Luke 1:42-44).
- He was God when Mary gave birth to Him (Luke 2:6-7).

As for teaching that He died - Christianity teaches that you never kill the soul - no matter WHAT you do to the flesh.

 

[Taken]

You have repeatedly claimed Jesus Christ is eternal, which is false.

Heb 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Mike Dwight]

I rewrote another response to the OP. In regard to the OP, how DO we define denominations? I'm finding a denomination definition to mean an autonomous Christian branch. There's also a definition for slightly different Church beliefs. These become most different I'd think with the Reformed Churches. The Reformed Church in America, the Dutch Reformed Church in America, the Korean Presbyterian Church Abroad, the Presbyterian Church in the USA, and the Magyar Reformed Church in America would probably be considered denominations then by one definition without the other necessarily. The Korean Presbyterian Church was of course first Established as the denomination in only one sense. Not to my knowledge did any specific changes in beliefs get taught from the most original Presbyterians, including the Scottish Psalter, or Bibles, or structure. Developments must have happened later such as the "kwansa" woman's charitable role. Of course everyone was already developing hymnals in the Presbyterians.

 

[Enoch111]

But Catholicism says God was born of Mary.

Not just Catholicism. All conservative Christians believe that. Of course, He was God the Word, or God the Son, not God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit.

So how did you adopt a heretical view of Christ? Something to think about. You must have been exposed to some cult, somewhere along the way. Or the Gnostics.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not just Catholicism. All conservative Christians believe that. Of course, He was God the Word, or God the Son, not God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit.

So how did you adopt a heretical view of Christ? Something to think about. You must have been exposed to some cult, somewhere along the way. Or the Gnostics.

Nope. The human body of Jesus Christ was born of Mary. God has no mother or father.

 

[Enoch111]

Nope. The human body of Jesus Christ was born of Mary. God has no mother or father.

God has no mother or father, but the God-Man Christ Jesus had a human mother -- the virgin Mary. Now you can buck that truth all you want, but you are simply resisting the truth.

It was God's plan from eternity to bring the Lamb of God into the world as a Man who would pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world. Therefore it was imperative that Jesus have a human mother. "Made of a woman" and "the seed of the woman" is clearly stated in the Bible.

Furthermore, God has a plan to bring Messiah-King Jesus to Israel through the line of David, and give Him the throne of David for eternity. Therefore it was imperative that both Joseph and Mary could trace their lineage back to David, and then beyond to Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.

 

[CoreIssue]

God has no mother or father, but the God-Man Christ Jesus had a human mother -- the virgin Mary. Now you can buck that truth all you want, but you are simply resisting the truth.

It was God's plan from eternity to bring the Lamb of God into the world as a Man who would pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world. Therefore it was imperative that Jesus have a human mother. "Made of a woman" and "the seed of the woman" is clearly stated in the Bible.

Furthermore, God has a plan to bring Messiah-King Jesus to Israel through the line of David, and give Him the throne of David for eternity. Therefore it was imperative that both Joseph and Mary could trace their lineage back to David, and then beyond to Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.

Mary is the mother of his humanity only.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mary is the mother of his humanity only.

Ignorant and unbiblical answer.

YOUR mother is not the mother of your "humanity" only because YOU are a PERSON who has a body and a soul. Your mother have birth to a PERSON - not a body.

Mary gave birth to the PERSON of Jesus - not just His body.
With ALL of your unbelief - you will NEVER be able to "undo" this . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

Ignorant and unbiblical answer.

YOUR mother is not the mother of your "humanity" only because YOU are a PERSON who has a body and a soul. Your mother have birth to a PERSON - not a body.

Mary gave birth to the PERSON of Jesus - not just His body.
With ALL of your unbelief - you will NEVER be able to "undo" this . . .

So you're saying she conceived my spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you're saying she conceived my spirit.

Nope - she conceived, carried and gave birth to a PERSON - not a "nature" and not just a "body".
Your mother gave birth to a being who is BOTH body and soul.

Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is a PERSON.
He just happens to ALSO be GOD. Ergo, she gave birth to GOD.

Nobody is saying that she gave birth to the Trinity.
It's really NOT that difficult to understand . . .