Do Acts of Righteousness Make One Righteous?

[marks]

Why not both?

1. Sinners receive imputed righteousness from God when they believe the Gospel. That is justification through what Jesus did.

2. Sinners also receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit when they believe. That is positional sanctification.

3. Saints must practice righteousness, and are commanded to be holy, as God is holy, through the Holy Spirit. That is practical and progressive sanctification through what we do.

There is absolutely no question that God demands righteousness from His saints.

Hi Enoch111,

I'd like to build on your comments, let me know what you think . . .

1. Sinners receive imputed righteousness from God when they believe the Gospel. That is justification through what Jesus did.

In doing this, God forever separates us from our sins, all of them. And being now without sin, God gives us new birth - a new creature, who is righteous and holy, and will be forever.

2. Sinners also receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit when they believe. That is positional sanctification.

Our new creature has life because we've been joined to God, and share His life. His life actually is our life.

3. Saints must practice righteousness, and are commanded to be holy, as God is holy, through the Holy Spirit. That is practical and progressive sanctification through what we do.

Being a new creature who is righteous and holy, God's intent is that we live that life, both so we can have the abundance it brings, and so that others can benefit from God living in us.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

by seeking Him with our whole hearts

And how does this happen / what does this look like / what do you mean here? How is this done?

 

[Episkopos]

And how does this happen / what does this look like / what do you mean here? How is this done?

That is your brain trying to grasp what only a heart can do. There is no technique. You must move God from His throne.

 

[marks]

That is your brain trying to grasp what only a heart can do. There is no technique. You must move God from His throne.

No, this is episkopos reaching an end of what he's willing to answer.

Fact is, you keep pushing this back a step, and I keep following along, wondering if you will answer, or stop answering.

Stop answering turns out to be it.

You wrote that by seeking him with our whole hearts we become accepted in the Beloved, and receive Jesus' faith.

I say that by believing in Jesus we are justified. But we can go beyond that.

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God has made us accepted in the Beloved by His grace. He has given us all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies "In Christ". And what do we know about being in Christ?

If any be in Christ, he is a new creature. Sounds to me like being born again!

We have been co-crucified with Christ, yet we live, yet not us, but Christ lives in us. And the life we live is by the faith that comes from Jesus.

His faith in us gives us our life in Him. This is dying with Him, being raised with Him, living with Him. Being born again. Not your mythical second level of holiness-than-thou.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

No, this is episkopos reaching an end of what he's willing to answer.

Fact is, you keep pushing this back a step, and I keep following along, wondering if you will answer, or stop answering.

Stop answering turns out to be it.

You wrote that by seeking him with our whole hearts we become accepted in the Beloved, and receive Jesus' faith.

I say that by believing in Jesus we are justified. But we can go beyond that.

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God has made us accepted in the Beloved by His grace. He has given us all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies "In Christ". And what do we know about being in Christ?

If any be in Christ, he is a new creature. Sounds to me like being born again!

We have been co-crucified with Christ, yet we live, yet not us, but Christ lives in us. And the life we live is by the faith that comes from Jesus.

His faith in us gives us our life in Him. This is dying with Him, being raised with Him, living with Him. Being born again. Not your mythical second level of holiness-than-thou.

Much love!
Mark

Follow your imagination.

 

[marks]

Follow your imagination.

That OK. You can bow out. I understand.

Much love!
Mark

 

[friend of]

Not by boasting about our works. But works indeed justify people

I think works are just an indication that someone has been justified though. The alternative is that our works could ever come close to the finished work of the cross, which devalues Christ's shed blood. We cannot hope to pay our ransom ourselves, hence the need of Christ in the first place. He is our savior, not us or our works.

 

[friend of]

The truth is usually the exact opposite of popular teachings. people are taught they need to "accept" Jesus. This is false. Jesus is already accepted by God and is the Lamb of God. Not the Lamb of church goers.

But when we have been approved by God...by seeking Him with our whole hearts....we then are given a new faith...by experience of His kingdom. In that experience we have another level of faith...HIS faith.

It's like when Peter saw Jesus walking on the water. Peter was given a higher degree of faith to walk as Jesus walked...but then he doubted. He tasted the faith OF Jesus for a short time. No man has the faith of himself to walk on water. But by the faith OF Jesus all things are possible. From faith to FAITH! So as to remove mountains, walk on water, raise the dead....etc

I don't think getting so semantical helps anything. "Accept" can be used interchangeably with "believe" for example.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't think getting so semantical helps anything. "Accept" can be used interchangeably with "believe" for example.

Well people still believe in vain...like believing that Jesus died for you is good....but that isn't what saves you.

 

[Episkopos]

I think works are just an indication that someone has been justified though. The alternative is that our works could ever come close to the finished work of the cross, which devalues Christ's shed blood. We cannot hope to pay our ransom ourselves, hence the need of Christ in the first place. He is our savior, not us or our works.

What faith is to holiness works are to righteousness.

 

[marks]

Are we Ok with the terminology, "receiving Jesus"?

Like, as many as received him, believing in his name . . .

?

What faith is to holiness works are to righteousness.

Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[friend of]

Well people still believe in vain...like believing that Jesus died for you is good....but that isn't what saves you

Yes it is. We certainly dont save ourselves.

But we're supposed to confidently believe that Christ paid for our sins. That's what he wants us to do; come boldly to the throne of grace. To ask of Him whatever we wish. To have faith to move mountains. Jesus wants us to have great faith, like a child with their parent. To know His love and to be fully assured that He will take care of us in this life and the next.

I find nothing doctrinally erroneous about holding to such a faith as this, in spite of our many imperfections.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes it is. We certainly dont save ourselves.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that your belief justifies you. So you are justifying yourself because you are holding a belief about Jesus. God is not involved in this. You are shutting Him out of the equation. God is looking for relationship...real contact...not religious presumptions.

 

[friend of]

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that your belief justifies you. So you are justifying yourself because you are holding a belief about Jesus. God is not involved in this. You are shutting Him out of the equation. God is looking for relationship...real contact...not religious presumptions.

Belief is arguably not a work, it's the correct desired state of one's soul toward God. Regardless, faith in the Son of God IS the biblical prescription for salvation. It's not something I am making up here, like you're suggesting.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

God is not involved in this. You are shutting Him out of the equation. God is looking for relationship...real contact...not religious presumptions

Well, I'm not denying that God was involved in drawing me to Himself, so no, I don't believe that represents where my heart's at. It does sound like your response here is calvinistic.

 

[marks]

It's like when Peter saw Jesus walking on the water. Peter was given a higher degree of faith to walk as Jesus walked...but then he doubted. He tasted the faith OF Jesus for a short time. No man has the faith of himself to walk on water. But by the faith OF Jesus all things are possible. From faith to FAITH! So as to remove mountains, walk on water, raise the dead....etc

There wasn't a "higher degree of faith". Peter walked on water, and then he didn't. First he trusted, then he didn't. Walking in faith, then not walking in faith.

Not "two kinds of faith".

But a good point to be made here, What Peter showed was obedience. Peter told Jesus, tell me to come and I will. Peter knew if Jesus told him to he could. I would we all have that faith! I think that's all that keeps us from doing every last little thing Jesus wants of us.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that your belief justifies you. So you are justifying yourself because you are holding a belief about Jesus. God is not involved in this. You are shutting Him out of the equation. God is looking for relationship...real contact...not religious presumptions.

I don't see that in Friendof's posts. Faith in Jesus' death. That doesn't shut God out, or make them self-justified. From whence comes relationship except first through sonship?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

I'd like to build on your comments, let me know what you think .

You got it.

 

[quietthinker]

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Not what we do, but what Jesus did.

Much love!
mark

It appears you are trying to negate the need for being righteous mark.
When the scripture exhorts us to put away sin it is saying, be righteous. It does not tell us to resist the devil and from the other side of its mouth say, ha ha, all your efforts are worthless.

Your opposition to having righteous behaviour and quoting Isa 64.6 to imply it is futile to be righteous because God views it as filthy rags is a misunderstanding and a serious misrepresentation of its intent.

I don't think you have any idea of the heinous nature of sin therefore you can dismiss personal righteousness with a wave of your hand.

The promise is to those who overcome. It is talking about overcoming that which is offensive to God, it is talking about walking a narrow trail that sits in opposition to the carnal nature, it is not turning the scripture into a tool to dishonour God by misrepresentation.

Your position is more dangerous than you realise.

 

[Dave L]

Motive is everything. Righteous acts for the wrong reason are sinful. Ask any Pharisee. I use this analogy every so often; If a cub scout helps an old lady cross the street for an achievement reward he is sinning. Because Paul says whatever is not of faith is sin. Or if not done to glorify God, it is sin. Yet the cub scout is sinning even more if he doesn't help the old lady.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Not what we do, but what Jesus did.

Much love!
mark

This is a good Scripture - I had read it a long time ago but haven't read it lately. I strive to be holy as God tells us: "Be ye therefore holy as I am holy." So I think that God expects certain behavior from us. Of course we miss the mark but keep trying.

I love the way you end your posts with "Much Love!" It's very encouraging!