Do Acts of Righteousness Make One Righteous?

[marks]

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Not what we do, but what Jesus did.

Much love!
mark

 

[CoreIssue]

This thread and the false salvation thread tie together.

 

[Episkopos]

Righteous is as righteous does. We will all be judged for what we have DONE in the body whether good or bad. Especially believers.

There is a religious error and fallacy that misunderstands what the righteousness of God is. This is not INSTEAD of doing what is right.

That's not the same thing we will be judged by.

 

[CoreIssue]

Righteous is as righteous does. We will all be judged for what we have DONE in the body whether good or bad. Especially believers.

There is a religious error and fallacy that misunderstands what the righteousness of God is. This is not INSTEAD of doing what is right.

That's not the same thing we will be judged by.

Not try to relate that to the white throne judgment were many plead their righteousness and are sent to the lake of fire.

 

[Episkopos]

Does acting with mercy make someone merciful?

Does killing people for money make them as assassin?

Does a person who works for a living make them a worker?

This will come as a huge shock but...

prov. 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

 

[marks]

Righteous is as righteous does. We will all be judged for what we have DONE in the body whether good or bad. Especially believers.

There is a religious error and fallacy that misunderstands what the righteousness of God is. This is not INSTEAD of doing what is right.

That's not the same thing we will be judged by.

Episkopos, why do you post if you do not wish to be responsive to my question?

?

?

Do acts of righteousness make you righteous?

I would answer "No."

Do you answer "yes"?

 

[marks]

Does acting with mercy make someone merciful?

Does killing people for money make them as assassin?

Does a person who works for a living make them a worker?

This will come as a huge shock but...

prov. 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

If a man flies, is he a bird?

Do acts or righteousness make you righteous? No.

 

[Episkopos]

If a man flies, is he a bird?

Do acts or righteousness make you righteous? No.

If a Christian is prone to lie...is he a liar? If a Christian robs a bank is he still a bank robber?

When will you see that God doesn't respect persons. We are all just vessels. No one is justified until God says so.

 

[marks]

If a Christian is prone to lie...is he a liar? If a Christian robs a bank is he still a bank robber?

When will you see that God doesn't respect persons. We are all just vessels. No one is justified until God says so.

Yes . . . God is not a respecter of persons. That is one of the great truths of the Bible! I love that fact about God! This is how I know that the same as He is to King David, the same as He is to Daniel, to Job, to Noah, to Nehemiah, and so on, that is how He is to me! Fantastic! We have a good God!!!

Yes . . . we are vessels. Purposefully weak, by virtue of who and what we are, that there be no confusion. All the wonder and glory and amazement of our life is not our own doing. We are filled with power and wonder and glory by the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ Who lives in us! Another wonderful and amazing reality. We are vessels, filled by the Creator of everything!

Another fantastic truth . . . it is no long I that sin, but sin that lives in me. There you go. Dead to sin. It's not even me. That's according to God. Let's talk about liberty in Christ! Not enslaving ourselves to dead works of the flesh.

Agreed! No one is justified unless God justifies them. (well, a slight rewording). I hope you will agree that we agree in essence.

So, what does God have to say about our justification?

Romans 8:28-31
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

While you are waiting for your justification, my Bible tells me God has already justified me.

Foreknown . . . predestined . . . called . . . justified . . . glorified . . . all in the same verb tense. Interesting, yes?

I know . . . most people I talk with don't believe this is true. They don't see the glory so they think it hasn't happened yet.

2 Corinthians 4 teaches us that our afflictions are working for as a greater eternal weight of glory. Are we thinking this is just in the concept phase only, to suddenly become a reality upon our death? Or are we thinking like the apostle Paul who wrote that we even now possess a body made by God, eternal in the heavens, so we don't need to be concerned about this body being taken down.

He explains that we don't want to be unclothed, that is, disembodied spirits, again, don't worry, God made to not want that. He's already given us a celestial body, we don't see it, because God has set us in this age, our eyes fixed here.

Our walk is in our believing, not in our seeing. So we don't see Him with our physical eyes.

But just because we don't see God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. Just the same, because we don't see the glory God is giving to us does not mean it does not exist.

Your God is a mystery, we can serve him in futility all our lives, or maybe not, never knowing, always wondering, is it real? Is God real? Am I really saved? Oh I hope so!!

1 John makes such good reading on this topic. It is filled with verses about how we can know we are saved, that we actually know Jesus, if we love, if we keep His commandments, to believe in Him, and to love each other. If we do these things . . . we can know.

There isn't a question about our justification if our lives show it. But packing works into our lives will never justify us. That will only and always be a pathetic rebellious attempt by someone who does not know God's grace to try to make themselves right in their own eyes.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm not the one who compared our own 'works of righteousness' to used menstrual cloths.

But in Christ . . .

Acts 13:38-41
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Doing works will never justify you. Believing in Jesus brings justification.

All that believe are justified from all things.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

Doing works will never justify you.

Not by boasting about our works. But works indeed justify people.

Read Mat 25 sheep/goats judgment. What justified them?

It was their works. They DID what was right to the brethren of Jesus. That saved them.

It is trickle down grace....if you understand that.

 

[marks]

Not by boasting about our works. But works indeed justify people.

Read Mat 25 sheep/goats judgment. What justified them?

It was their works. They DID what was right to the brethren of Jesus. That saved them.

It is trickle down grace....if you understand that.

Yes, and that is them. And again I have to ask is that how you expect to be judged towards whether or not you get to enter the Kingdom?

If yes, how do you think you will do? If no, then one what basis will you be allowed into the Kingdom?

And . . .

What is "trickle down grace"? Is there a passage of Scripture that gives more understanding of that?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, and that is them. And again I have to ask is that how you expect to be judged towards whether or not you get to enter the Kingdom?

If yes, how do you think you will do? If no, then one what basis will you be allowed into the Kingdom?

And . . .

What is "trickle down grace"? Is there a passage of Scripture that gives more understanding of that?

Much love!
Mark

Here is the answer....Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these my brethren you did it to Me. This works both ways.....just like grace. It gives us enough rope to either hang ourselves....or save us. That's the real way of grace....it is freedom to act according to our decision.

Concerning the kingdom....we enter now by the Spirit...or not.

 

[Enoch111]

Not what we do, but what Jesus did.

Why not both?

1. Sinners receive imputed righteousness from God when they believe the Gospel. That is justification through what Jesus did.

2. Sinners also receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit when they believe. That is positional sanctification.

3. Saints must practice righteousness, and are commanded to be holy, as God is holy, through the Holy Spirit. That is practical and progressive sanctification through what we do.

There is absolutely no question that God demands righteousness from His saints.

 

[marks]

Acts 13 Catagorically settles this matter.

OK, we can debate over whether the words mean this or not, but this is the King James translation:

Acts 13:39 "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

Do we think the translation is wrong? Do we think the translation is correct? Do we think that the translation is right, but we still don't know what it means, means something other than what it says?

Or do with think it is correctly translated, and should be understood as meaning what it says?

By him (Jesus) all who believe are justified from all things. Oh, and, you could not be justified from them the the Law of Moses.

(Notice also that we are given 2 alternatives only. Now, when a human gives me only two alternatives, and I'm aware of another, that's a Logical Fallacy, False Alternatives, offering a choice that does not include other possibilities. But when God gives only two alternatives, I would not say He has bad logic, I'd say there are two alternatives. In this case, the alternatives are "believing" and "Law of Moses". Two options by which to be justified, and one works)

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Here is the answer....Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these my brethren you did it to Me. This works both ways.....just like grace. It gives us enough rope to either hang ourselves....or save us. That's the real way of grace....it is freedom to act according to our decision.

Concerning the kingdom....we enter now by the Spirit...or not.

Ok, well and good, but not an answer to my question.

Which was, do you expect to be judged in the same way towards whether you enter the Kingdom of God or not.

You said, we enter now by the Spirit . . . or not.

By what criteria? On what basis?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Acts 13 Catagorically settles this matter.

OK, we can debate over whether the words mean this or not, but this is the King James translation:

Acts 13:39 "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

Do we think the translation is wrong? Do we think the translation is correct? Do we think that the translation is right, but we still don't know what it means, means something other than what it says?

Or do with think it is correctly translated, and should be understood as meaning what it says?

By him (Jesus) all who believe are justified from all things. Oh, and, you could not be justified from them the the Law of Moses.

(Notice also that we are given 2 alternatives only. Now, when a human gives me only two alternatives, and I'm aware of another, that's a Logical Fallacy, False Alternatives, offering a choice that does not include other possibilities. But when God gives only two alternatives, I would not say He has bad logic, I'd say there are two alternatives. In this case, the alternatives are "believing" and "Law of Moses". Two options by which to be justified, and one works.

Much love!
Mark

You are getting too excited and missing....BY HIM (Jesus Christ). That would be God. Only God can justify a person. Nice try though....

 

[Episkopos]

Ok, well and good, but not an answer to my question.

Which was, do you expect to be judged in the same way towards whether you enter the Kingdom of God or not.

You said, we enter now by the Spirit . . . or not.

By what criteria? On what basis?

Much love!

Faith. His grace by faith....that becomes the faith OF Jesus Christ once we are accepted into the beloved. We enter into the kingdom of God by faith so we can walk as Jesus walked....where He is...in Zion in the Spirit. We are to walk in the light as He is in the light. As He is so are we in this world. So then our faith and His grace bridges the gap between where God is and where we are. We bring down the presence of God into the world in this way. In this way we become the light of the world.

They who enter into the kingdom now will be judged separately from the world. At the Bema seat. Grace to us now brings a greater standard of judgment later.

 

[marks]

You are getting too excited and missing....BY HIM (Jesus Christ). That would be God. Only God can justify a person. Nice try though....

Oh, am I getting excited? Are you excited? This is an exciting topic, is it not!



By him.

Oh. Wait, let's go back to my post . . .

By him (Jesus) all who believe are justified from all things. Oh, and, you could not be justified from them the the Law of Moses.

By Jesus - Yes . . . It is by Jesus, and Him alone, that all who believe are justified from all things.

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Whom God foreknew, predestined, whom God called, whom God justified, glorified, God does all these.

And it by believing, not by the Law of Moses that all who believe are justified from all things.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Faith. His grace by faith....that becomes the faith OF Jesus Christ once we are accepted into the beloved.

Would you mind elaborating on this part?

Especially what you mean here:

that becomes the faith OF Jesus Christ once we are accepted into the beloved.

On what basis are we "accepted into the beloved"?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Would you mind elaborating on this part?

Especially what you mean here:

that becomes the faith OF Jesus Christ once we are accepted into the beloved.

On what basis are we "accepted into the beloved"?

Much love!

The truth is usually the exact opposite of popular teachings. people are taught they need to "accept" Jesus. This is false. Jesus is already accepted by God and is the Lamb of God. Not the Lamb of church goers.

But when we have been approved by God...by seeking Him with our whole hearts....we then are given a new faith...by experience of His kingdom. In that experience we have another level of faith...HIS faith.

It's like when Peter saw Jesus walking on the water. Peter was given a higher degree of faith to walk as Jesus walked...but then he doubted. He tasted the faith OF Jesus for a short time. No man has the faith of himself to walk on water. But by the faith OF Jesus all things are possible. From faith to FAITH! So as to remove mountains, walk on water, raise the dead....etc