Do Not Assume That I Have Come to Bring Peace

[Wrangler]

When Iran and their proxies attempt to do what they have sworn to do. That is: to wipe Israel off the map.
THEN; the Lord will arise and destroy them all. Isaiah 28:21, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, +

I am confident that what the Bible Prophets say will happen - WILL HAPPEN.

We agree on WHAT. But the question is about the specific WHEN.

 

[Adam]

Israel is the fellowship of believers. The modern state that calls itself Israel is really just another secular state no different from any other secular state. Don't let their name fool you, they are really just another Babylon.

 

[Space_Karen]

I think there are basic observations about the journey of Jesus that most do not want to think about.

Which makes it pointless to try to discuss these types of topics.

We need the basic and fundamental building blocks of Christ's story to build the basic narrative. And the basic building blocks are the critical missing element to most of these discussions that I have seen.

There is a message and theme to the Crucifixion that is very basic. When Jesus says he brings a sword, what does it mean? How can it be defined? There are good interpretations to this which people desperately need before they can begin to put it into perspective.

 

[Keraz]

Keraz's error in his understanding has come about by his acceptance/belief that the translation contains no errors in the contextual understanding of the source documents, and since he holds this point of view, he cannot be possibly wrong.

Trying to pick apart the Bible as it is given to us, is a fruitless exercise.
Prophecy is for Believers 1 Corinthians 14:22b. We must read the Bible Prophesies and as they DO make a coherent and logical sequence of events, leading up to the final Judgment and Eternity, that IS what will happen.
Or else we are no greater than the animals and Darwin was right.

The Bible has plenty of information on how the Lord’s plans have been fulfilled in the past and what we can expect in our future. Also, according to His Will, very few will truly understand the full scope and implications of future events. Daniel 12:10

 

[Jay Ross]

Trying to pick apart the Bible as it is given to us, is a fruitless exercise.
Prophecy is for Believers 1 Corinthians 14:22b. We must read the Bible Prophesies and as they DO make a coherent and logical sequence of events, leading up to the final Judgment and Eternity, that IS what will happen.
Or else we are no greater than the animals and Darwin was right.

The Bible has plenty of information on how the Lord’s plans have been fulfilled in the past and what we can expect in our future. Also, according to His Will, very few will truly understand the full scope and implications of future events. Daniel 12:10

Keraz, that is your understanding from your own ignorance.

You have been told many times with patience that there are contextual errors in our English translations that cannot be ignored as you are doing.

 

[Keraz]

We agree on WHAT. But the question is about the specific WHEN.

THAT is the event which no one knows the time of.
The great Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will strike unexpectedly, shocking and terrifying everyone.

However, we know it is close as Iran gets nukes and missiles with the range to hit Israel. Could happen tomorrow!

You have been told many times with patience that there are contextual errors in our English translations that cannot be ignored as you are doing.

There are some mistakes and mis translations in every Bible. The worst is of course; the KJV. That Bible causes the most confusion.
But modern, authorized Bibles can be trusted, they are good for us to obtain Salvation, know how to live and what God plans for our future.
It is a totally wasted effort to go over the ancient texts again.

I have a copy of an excellent Bible which was completely translated from the Hebrew and Greek by Ferrar Fenton, in 1903. It took him 50 years to do it.

 

[Wrangler]

Could happen tomorrow!

I wish it were so.

 

[Adam]

THAT is the event which no one knows the time of.
The great Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will strike unexpectedly, shocking and terrifying everyone.

That's exactly what the Pharisees believed would happen when the Messiah came, and when the Messiah did come, they didn't recognize him and thought he was just a small-time carpenter-turned-cult leader who arrogantly attacked their faith and institutions. Jesus went around saying that the priests are liars and the prostitutes and tax collectors were holier than them. He told them their sacrifices were pointless when they had evil in their hearts. He told them their temple would be destroyed.

If Jesus were to come in the flesh a second time, I am telling you, he will come as a humble witness to God, and everyone will call him a cult leader or the antichrist because he will denounce all your faith and institutions once again. He'll tear down your crucifixes and call you a hypocrite. He'll be surrounded by gays and atheists and tell you that they are better people than you with all your hearts full of condemnation. He'll tell you that your church's doctrines and traditions are nothing more than the traditions of men and stand against God's teachings.

Jesus is coming with a sword. That sword is truth. He comes with fire. That fire is penance. His robes are dipped in blood, that is his blood. All you people who seek wrath and damnation for nonbelievers will be the ones who will kill him.

Matthew 21
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

 

[Wrangler]

If Jesus were to come in the flesh a second time

If Jesus were to come a second time? What kind of Christian are you?

I am telling you .... He'll be surrounded by gays and atheists and tell you that they are better people than you

What verse in Scripture says that?

 

[Adam]

What verse in Scripture says that?

28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

 

[Wrangler]

28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Publicans and harlots mean gays and atheists to you?

 

[Adam]

Publicans and harlots mean gays and atheists to you?

Publicans and harlots represent exactly that, "people you find detestible and evil".

Luke 18
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Keraz]

If people believe anything of the Prophetic Word, then it should be obvious that the world will be a very different place before Jesus Returns.
What is extensively Prophesied, is the Lord will send fire to clear and cleanse all of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, Psalms 11:4-6. 2 Peter 3:7

THAT is what we should be aware of right now and prepared to stand firm in our faith, thru this great test. 1 Peter 4:12

 

[Wrangler]

Publicans and harlots represent exactly that, "people you find detestible and evil".

So, in your estimation detestible and evil people will enter heaven before God’s elect? Nice.

 

[Adam]

So, in your estimation detestible and evil people will enter heaven before God’s elect? Nice.

If anyone has the hubris to call themselves "God's elect" then they are certainly not one of them.

To give context to what Jesus said, the tax collectors were collaborators to the Roman occupation, persona non grata, unpersonned in the eyes of the Jews. Jews were God's Holy Nation, and the Romans were evil pagan scum who profaned the Holy City by entering it with Caesar's banners. The tax collectors were traitors to their own people, who were helping the Romans for their own personal wealth, and they were corrupt too, overcharging on taxes because they got a cut of everything they collected.

So for a more modern analogy, it would be like if you lived in a Nazi occupied country. Maybe your brother was killed in an uprising, and then Jesus came up to you and said "the gestapo are more pleasing to God than you". It is the most infuriating thing imaginable to hear, which defies all your beliefs and morals and is an insult to everything you stand for. Why do you think the crowd all wanted Jesus dead?

The message is a message against hating anybody, and thinking yourself better than them. He uses the example of the worst people imaginable to illustrate the point, that hating them makes you worse than them.

I will tell you something else, that the path to God is not found by following popular beliefs:

Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If you ever encounter a discussion where many men are shouting down one man, "go to hell you evildoer" while he patiently explains his position on deaf ears; you should listen to what that man has to say with open mind. But if there is a man which millions run to for his great wisdom and holiness, that is the man to be wary of.

 

[Wrangler]

If anyone has the hubris to call themselves "God's elect" then they are certainly not one of them.

Does this include Jesus and the Apostles? Asking for a friend.

 

[Adam]

Does this include Jesus and the Apostles? Asking for a friend.

Judas got posessed by the Devil.

Here is a riddle for you: Judas saw Jesus' miracles with his own eyes; and what is more, he was given authority by Jesus and healed the sick and cast out devils along with the other apostles. Now why, oh why, oh why, oh why, would he suddenly turn around and get Jesus killed?

Here is a hint: think about what you would believe if you could change reality and call upon miracles at will. Who might you begin to think you were? You wouldn't think you were the Devil. You would think you were ___.

 

[Jay Ross]

It is a totally wasted effort to go over the ancient texts again.

Really? Then why do you change the Biblical texts then with your own paraphrasing of what has been translated if the translations are good enough to use as they are?

I have a copy of an excellent Bible which was completely translated from the Hebrew and Greek by Ferrar Fenton, in 1903.

Yes, and I looked at how he translated Genesis 13:14-18 and it contains the same contextual errors that are also found in our other English translations.



And Genesis 15:16 in Fenton's translations completely changes the context of the Hebrew texts and also ignores parts of that text: -

Here is the NKJV translations: -

16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.​

and this is how Fenton translated the same verse: -

​

which presents a very different context.

Your recommendation of the Fenton translation confirms that you have no credibility in what you post.

Do I have to further demonstrate your shortcomings in this small matter?

 

[FactsPlease]

It is natural and quite right that Christians should engage in debate over what the Bible says about the last days and the Return of Jesus. After all, the Bible has a lot to tell us about these issues. Regardless of one’s worldview or faith, the Bible is an ancient and vitally important book that has shaped the course of history and will continue to in the future.

But how can it be that there are so many differing opinions as to what will take place? We do, [mostly] all agree on the most essential point – that is, Jesus will physically Return to earth. It is in the timing of His Return and who exactly is the nation, the people that He Returns to, that there is disagreement.

Jesus said; Do not assume that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34-36
Luke 12:49 I have come to set fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled.

Jesus makes statements that contradict today’s picture of Him as a gentle pacifist and seems to differ from what the angels announced at His birth, but it isn’t; they told of the beginning of this age of enmity between God and humanity and the eventual final reconciliation. Matthew 3:12, Psalms 110:5-6

Until that happens, we are still in that age of enmity and God must impose consequences on both our good and evil choices. We have free will: mostly so that we can freely love Him, because only freely chosen love is true love. Thus, if God only rewarded the good but left the evil unpunished, He would act arbitrarily, against His just nature and our free choices would be meaningless.



From Isaiah 63:1-6...I resolved on a Day of vengeance.... we have a graphic description of the Lord carrying out His just retribution against His enemies. The reason for their destruction is foretold in Romans 9:22-23, Hebrews 10:26-27
Many other passages describe this soon to happen, terrible Day of the Lords wrath. This cannot be at the same time as the Return of Jesus, as the Day of the Lord is a worldwide event, whereas at His Return, Jesus only disposes of the beast, the False Prophet and the armies attacking Jerusalem, by the Sword of His Word and NOT by fire.

The fact that the Lord’s garments become blood stained during His Day of vengeance, then - at His Return, it states that He “is robed in a garment dyed in blood”, this proves that the Day of the Lord is some time before His Return.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See; the Lord is coming in fire, His chariots like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. The Lord will judge with fire – by His sword He will test all mankind. Many will be slain by Him. Plus the over 70 other Prophesies which vividly describe this forthcoming worldwide disaster.

Many people today, combine prophecies like Isaiah 63 & 66, the wrath of the Lord, with the Return of Jesus. To do this requires that you allegorize either these verses or the accurate descriptions of His Return in Revelation 19, Zechariah 14:3-5 and Matthew 24:30

Psalm 50:1-6 The Lord God has spoken and summoned the world. He shines from Zion, in His glory. He will not remain silent, a consuming fire goes before Him and storms rage around Him. The heavens and the earth look on at the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those, who by sacrifice have made a covenant with Me. The heavens will proclaim His justice, for God Himself is judge. Ezekiel 34:11-16

The Lord’s loyal servants are gathered into Zion, all the Promised Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38 Then, it isn’t until later, when the Great Tribulation is over, that Jesus Returns, destroys His attackers, gathers all His people and reigns for 1000 years.

Therefore, the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath by fire.

A Jew, to most unimportant, yet his words span thru the ages- warning of his Father's Day of Vengeance, as his words continue to divide!

 

[Wrangler]

Does this include Jesus and the Apostles? Asking for a friend.

Judas got posessed by the Devil.

Not really an answer to my question but I can understand why you'd dodge your scrutiny of the series of your unsupportable statements.