Do we do as they do?

[afaithfulone4u]

When we hear of evil acts done by someone on the news rather it is a terrorist attack or molestation/rape or a purse grabbed, do we judge them as guilty and worthy of punishment, even death and we cheer on and demand their payment for their sinful ways?

Do we understand that we are doing the work of the enemy? How is it that we demand their sins to be judged but beg for God to overlook ours to be forgiven?

How is that, that we are hypocrites?
Aren't we supposed to set those captive to Sin FREE so that they can live a godly life?
Aren't we supposed to be saving the sinner by understanding that WE ALL ARE BORN SINNERS and need Christ to indwell us so the Word can cleanse us from our sinful ways?

When we are led by the Spirit we shall understand the bondage they are in and want to help them out of it.
But when we are led of our flesh.... we want BLOOD!!

If we do as the ungodly do... we are the same as they are!

Phil 2:16
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV
2 Peter 3:14
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
KJV
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
KJV

 

[lforrest]

The guilty are worthy of punishment, this is justice. It isn't their ways that they should be judged for, it is their acts.

The sins against man must be repaid to man, and the sins against God repaid to him. It is the oppressed without a voice, those who's blood cries out from the ground whom have God as their advocate. It is good for justice to be done by man on the behalf of the oppressed before the case comes before God.

Christians are to forgive sins against them according to the parable in Matthew 18:21-35. But for sins against others whom are unable or unwilling to forgive, justice must be done. Justice is good, but forgiveness is best.

 

[KingJ]

Christians wanting blood are not Christians. Vengeance is God's = Christianity 101.

But, wanting justice / hating evil actions is fine.

You raise a valid issue in your OP. It certainly seems like many Christians today are hating the person.

 

[Dan57]

When we hear of evil acts done by someone on the news rather it is a terrorist attack or molestation/rape or a purse grabbed, do we judge them as guilty and worthy of punishment, even death and we cheer on and demand their payment for their sinful ways?

Do we understand that we are doing the work of the enemy? How is it that we demand their sins to be judged but beg for God to overlook ours to be forgiven?

How is that, that we are hypocrites?

Wanting justice is not doing the work of the enemy. We are instructed to uphold the law of the land, which determines the punishment for committing crimes (Romans 13:1-5). God may forgive the repentant, but that does not absolve us from reaping what we sow in the flesh. Imo, its not hypocritical to want a rapist, murderer, or terrorist, to be punished for what they've done. We must be held accountable for the evil we do, otherwise we have chaos and no justice.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

The guilty are worthy of punishment, this is justice. It isn't their ways that they should be judged for, it is their acts.

The sins against man must be repaid to man, and the sins against God repaid to him. It is the oppressed without a voice, those who's blood cries out from the ground whom have God as their advocate. It is good for justice to be done by man on the behalf of the oppressed before the case comes before God.

Christians are to forgive sins against them according to the parable in Matthew 18:21-35. But for sins against others whom are unable or unwilling to forgive, justice must be done. Justice is good, but forgiveness is best.

It is good for a Christian to go to the man who has sinned and shine the light of what he has done on his sin so that BEFORE he is found out and punished.. he would have a way to repent and turn from his wicked ways so that mercy can be given instead of sacrifice.
A follower of Christ does not fight in the physical realm as to punish sinners..we are to bring them the gospel of God's Word that TEACHES them HOW to do what is right to save the sinner from his sinful ways..... not cheer on their down fall and chant with the ungodly to give them their JUST DUES.
Evil only begets more evil and who are we to judge? All of us where guilty of the same things in some way shape or form in our past as those we are judging and calling for them to be JUDGED for their sin. Yes I agree that justice for EVIL must come... but isn't that why it is so important for us to be DOER'S of the Word and not just Hearer's only and teach others the same? So that evil will eventually be no more?
God has the right to judge for He is perfect, but we do not for our judgments can be self centered unless we have been perfected in love. But ungodly people whom are still carnal in their thinking will be those used to physically bring the punishment upon man, for the true spiritual man of God does not return evil with evil in maturity in Christ.
All government is ordained of God and they are ministers to bring the sword to those who need to be judged rather they believe upon God or not does not matter, they do serve God and also (God knowing the heart of a man)have a willing heart to carry out a punishment on someone. It is so interesting to see how we love to believe that there is no more law of God(being His 10 commandments) to be obeyed, yet we say that sin needs to be judged!! Yes sin needs to be dealt with, but it should never be by the hand of a man of God physically or calling for Justice to be done.

See there are two ways to look at the law of God. One brings death and that is to bring the law down upon their heads when they know no better having not been given a proper up bringing.
The other brings life and that is to start from a foundation which is Christ and begin to build them up in God's Word to teach them how to do what is right so that they NEVER need a law exalted over their heads for they know how to do good.
Laws are given because of lawless ones.
If I walk into someone's house, I have freedom no rules to follow... but if I begin to jump on the furniture and be UNRULY then the owner of the house sees that they must raise some laws up over me for they see that I do not have GOOD common sense and am in need of someone telling me how to behave. And now when I come over(if invited back) I must be reminded of the laws that they put on me and it brings condemnation to me if I do not keep them. I am now held captive to these laws due to my actions of lawlessness. It is not really the law that is holding me captive it is my BEHAVIOR that is the culprit. If I learn to do better then the law will be lifted because they will see the difference in me. That is the goal of God to get us to KNOW How to do the right thing so that He does not have to exalt Laws over us for us being lawless in actions.

 

[biggandyy]

THE LAW was given so we can see we can never live up to it and have need of a saviour. However, your odd view of christian liberty isn't liberty, what you have hold of there is license. You appear to view christianity as license to do whatever you please whenever you please.

We follow and obey God not because of the Law but because of His Son, Jesus.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Wanting justice is not doing the work of the enemy. We are instructed to uphold the law of the land, which determines the punishment for committing crimes (Romans 13:1-5). God may forgive the repentant, but that does not absolve us from reaping what we sow in the flesh. Imo, its not hypocritical to want a rapist, murderer, or terrorist, to be punished for what they've done. We must be held accountable for the evil we do, otherwise we have chaos and no justice.

We are instructed to forgive and to bring the gospel of how to find peace to the ears of sinners.. not punishment as the worlds does, seeking blood. We must recognize that these people who do such sinful things are held captive to sin falling for Satan's temptations and need to be set free, not thrown to the beasts to tear them apart. When we seek someone to be stoned for their sin we are doing the work of the enemy for he is the murderer and the father of lies. Our goal should be to SAVE the sinner by bringing God's Word to their ears so they can accept Christ and be reborn.
Would you seek for someone to be punished if they woke up from their sinful life and turned from it BEFORE they were found out, or someone who was found out first and then said they were sorry? Most times those who are found out first ARE sorry.. SORRY they were found out!! But they too are to be treated as a soul worth saving. Physical punishment should never be something that we are happy about or want to participate in. Hearts and minds is our mission for Christ's sake not our own selfish ambitions. We must use the sWord of the Spirit to cut and burn away the flesh man that holds us captive to sin and when we don't adhere to the Word to be a doer.. then tests and trials in life do come to bring us to repentance so that we turn away from evil. But it is the devil who is allowed to bring them, not our hands.
Paul showed us how you deal with a person in the church that is walking contrary to Christ to the saving of his soul out of LOVE for that person:
1 Cor 5:1-5
5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Christians wanting blood are not Christians. Vengeance is God's = Christianity 101.

But, wanting justice / hating evil actions is fine.

You raise a valid issue in your OP. It certainly seems like many Christians today are hating the person.

When you say to want justice is fine, do you agree with these people even believers who stand in a courtroom and say to the man who has killed their family member " I hope you rot in hell!! and that God will NEVER forgive you.... and express how much better they feel that this person is going to be put to death?

We definitely are to hate evil and we are to recognize evil when we see it and not get entangled with it... and you are correct that we do not fight flesh and blood hating the man that God created but we are to do this:
Eph 6:10-19
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
KJV

THE LAW was given so we can see we can never live up to it and have need of a saviour. However, your odd view of christian liberty isn't liberty, what you have hold of there is license. You appear to view christianity as license to do whatever you please whenever you please.

We follow and obey God not because of the Law but because of His Son, Jesus.

That is not true. The law was given to the children to show that just coming out of Egypt, having learned their ungodly ways, that we are in need of a savior, to lead us to Christ/The Word to help raise up our standards as a people of God. The problem is that the Hebrew children could not do it in their own power for they had not the Spirit of God nor did they have The Word written in their hearts. Jesus died so that we could have the Spirit of God who is our helper to indwell us in our covenant to help us overcome our sinful ways. They did not mix the Word of God with faith to act on it and to apply it to their lives to be doers and not just hearers so that there would eventually be NO evil doers in the world.
We were all sinners, who are we to say someone else sin is more evil than ours and needs to be judged. I never say we have license to sin... I leave that to those who believe there is no law in our new covenant and teach that all our sins are forgiven so they can live as they please.
I say those who continue to sin in the body of Christ shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Those who do not know God, know not what they do, just as we didn't when we did not know God's Word either and we asked for mercy of our past sins to be forgiven.

Matt 9:10-13
10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous(SELF RIGHTEOUS), but sinners to repentance.
KJV

All men have become as filthy rags according to God, so the only persons who could claim righteousness are those who deceivingly thought they were good people and had no need for a savior.
When Cain who was the first man to kill even his own brother Abel, committed this sin we notice that neither Adam nor Eve sought to kill Cain and neither did God. For God uses men of willing hearts to kill for His judgment purposes and there were NONE of his peers to seek vengeance for evil.. In fact God told Cain:
Gen 4:13-15
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
KJV

And we also understand that Paul never killed in the name of God again once coming to Christ for you can not have peace when you are dishing out darkness to others for we all shall reap what we sow.
Matt 5:3-12
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
KJV

 

[veteran]

When we hear of evil acts done by someone on the news rather it is a terrorist attack or molestation/rape or a purse grabbed, do we judge them as guilty and worthy of punishment, even death and we cheer on and demand their payment for their sinful ways?

Do we understand that we are doing the work of the enemy? How is it that we demand their sins to be judged but beg for God to overlook ours to be forgiven?

How is that, that we are hypocrites?
Aren't we supposed to set those captive to Sin FREE so that they can live a godly life?
Aren't we supposed to be saving the sinner by understanding that WE ALL ARE BORN SINNERS and need Christ to indwell us so the Word can cleanse us from our sinful ways?

When we are led by the Spirit we shall understand the bondage they are in and want to help them out of it.
But when we are led of our flesh.... we want BLOOD!!

If we do as the ungodly do... we are the same as they are!

It depends on the TYPE of act of course. What you're preaching is not Biblical, because you are equating ALL sin as deserving the SAME punishment, and that's absolutism, not reality per God's Truth in His Word.

This is why even in Old Testament times we can find different sins that required different judgments and punishment.

If we're talking about terrorists, i.e., MURDERERS and RAPISTS, that's clearly a lot different than someone who steals from you and deserves a more serious judgment in order to put the evil away from us. God's people do not have to put up with murderers, thieves and rapists ruling our streets like was done in Sodom and Gomorrah. Those who think they should be loosed to roam the streets to keep doing evil don't understand what our Heavenly Father and His Son are about.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

It depends on the TYPE of act of course. What you're preaching is not Biblical, because you are equating ALL sin as deserving the SAME punishment, and that's absolutism, not reality per God's Truth in His Word.

This is why even in Old Testament times we can find different sins that required different judgments and punishment.

If we're talking about terrorists, i.e., MURDERERS and RAPISTS, that's clearly a lot different than someone who steals from you and deserves a more serious judgment in order to put the evil away from us. God's people do not have to put up with murderers, thieves and rapists ruling our streets like was done in Sodom and Gomorrah. Those who think they should be loosed to roam the streets to keep doing evil don't understand what our Heavenly Father and His Son are about.

I mentioned nothing about evil people running the streets doing as they please and never did I say all sins deserve the same punishment. I said those being made holy as the body of Christ should not be the ones to lay hands on nor should they be gloating over a sinner getting is JUST DUES. Leave that to the ungodly who enjoy blood baths.
But are you saying that we should demand that all sin is judged as in an eye for an eye?

And true if a fellow brethren being one who has come to Christ is found doing such evil deeds even after they should now know better, they must be separated from the Sheep who follow Christ, for they clearly are not who they claim to be and a little leaven spoils the whole batch. If a hand offendeth then cut it off for it is better that one member (of Christ's body) is missing than for the whole body being contaminated and thrown into HELL FIRE and torment.
But we must remember that those outside the body of Christ do not know what they do for the god of them has blinded them in hopes of destroying them totally. Jesus seen the torment and hell fire of the sinners days and he had pity on them and cast out those demons that taught them to sin and live in a living hell.
Matt 18:32-19:1
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
KJV
John 8:3-12
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
KJV

 

[veteran]

I mentioned nothing about evil people running the streets doing as they please and never did I say all sins deserve the same punishment. I said those being made holy as the body of Christ should not be the ones to lay hands on nor should they be gloating over a sinner getting is JUST DUES. Leave that to the ungodly who enjoy blood baths.
But are you saying that we should demand that all sin is judged as in an eye for an eye?

And true if a fellow brethren being one who has come to Christ is found doing such evil deeds even after they should now know better, they must be separated from the Sheep who follow Christ, for they clearly are not who they claim to be and a little leaven spoils the whole batch. If a hand offendeth then cut it off for it is better that one member (of Christ's body) is missing than for the whole body being contaminated and thrown into HELL FIRE and torment.
But we must remember that those outside the body of Christ do not know what they do for the god of them has blinded them in hopes of destroying them totally. Jesus seen the torment and hell fire of the sinners days and he had pity on them and cast out those demons that taught them to sin and live in a living hell.

Matt 18:32-19:1
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
KJV
John 8:3-12
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
KJV

No true child of God enjoys seeing the wicked being punished.

But no true child of God enjoys seeing the wicked appear to get away with their evil acts either.

As for the adulteress that Jesus forgave, you ought to study your OT more, because not every situation of adultery in the law required the death penalty. There was one case where the priest was to use dirt for a process of determination, thus Jesus bending down to write in the dirt.

 

[Dan57]

We are instructed to forgive and to bring the gospel of how to find peace to the ears of sinners.. not punishment as the worlds does, seeking blood. We must recognize that these people who do such sinful things are held captive to sin falling for Satan's temptations and need to be set free, not thrown to the beasts to tear them apart. When we seek someone to be stoned for their sin we are doing the work of the enemy for he is the murderer and the father of lies. Our goal should be to SAVE the sinner by bringing God's Word to their ears so they can accept Christ and be reborn.

I agree with your philosophy in regards to a repentant sinner, we should forgive offenses and not take personal vengeance. But not everyone is a brother or sister in Christ, and for that reason, sometimes correction and punishment can do more to bring a sinner to salvation than forgiving and forgetting. Consider that when the malefactor crucified with Christ said; "we receive the due reward of our deeds"
Jesus didn't argue with him or deny what he said.

If a Christian refuses to stand against evil, criminal activity, or abusive behavior, aren't they empowering the enemy? When we are content to stand idle and let evil prevail, aren't we indirectly promoting evil? If we don't oppose evil, aren't we guilty of perpetuating it? And if we overlook crime, don't we do an injustice to the victims of crime by allowing them to needlessly suffer?

Remember that Cain murdered Able before the law, but God eventually spelled-out the punishment for premeditated murder in Deuteronomy 19:11-13. That's why you'll never find me standing outside a prison lighting candles in protest of the state for executing a mass murderer.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I agree with your philosophy in regards to a repentant sinner, we should forgive offenses and not take personal vengeance. But not everyone is a brother or sister in Christ, and for that reason, sometimes correction and punishment can do more to bring a sinner to salvation than forgiving and forgetting. Consider that when the malefactor crucified with Christ said; "we receive the due reward of our deeds"
Jesus didn't argue with him or deny what he said.

If a Christian refuses to stand against evil, criminal activity, or abusive behavior, aren't they empowering the enemy? When we are content to stand idle and let evil prevail, aren't we indirectly promoting evil? If we don't oppose evil, aren't we guilty of perpetuating it? And if we overlook crime, don't we do an injustice to the victims of crime by allowing them to needlessly suffer?

Remember that Cain murdered Able before the law, but God eventually spelled-out the punishment for premeditated murder in Deuteronomy 19:11-13. That's why you'll never find me standing outside a prison lighting candles in protest of the state for executing a mass murderer.

This I agree with. I believe that there is a better way to deal with crimes than the use of capital punishment, but I would never hold a candle at a vigil protesting the carrying out of a death sentence as if it were an injustice to be decried. I wish that we would err toward life when dealing with certain crimes, in hopes that a person has a long life and opportunity to understand the wrong they did. But to protest the death penalty as if some grave injustice were occurring is outrageous because it's impossible to indict the death penalty without simultaneously indicting the God who instituted it after the Flood.

But where I disagree with you is that Jesus's silence when a thief said he was receiving what was due to him is acquiescence. Certainly there's no justification for drawing that conclusion unless we are to surmise that Jesus believed that people should die for stealing. It's the very fact that thieves were being executed that should serve as a warning to us about totalitarian government power that writes in statute multiple justifications for execution. When government has the power to kill, it can't be trusted with restraint in the use of that power. It's the reason I'd like to see capital punishment abolished in every state in this country.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I agree with your philosophy in regards to a repentant sinner, we should forgive offenses and not take personal vengeance. But not everyone is a brother or sister in Christ, and for that reason, sometimes correction and punishment can do more to bring a sinner to salvation than forgiving and forgetting. Consider that when the malefactor crucified with Christ said; "we receive the due reward of our deeds"
Jesus didn't argue with him or deny what he said.

If a Christian refuses to stand against evil, criminal activity, or abusive behavior, aren't they empowering the enemy? When we are content to stand idle and let evil prevail, aren't we indirectly promoting evil? If we don't oppose evil, aren't we guilty of perpetuating it? And if we overlook crime, don't we do an injustice to the victims of crime by allowing them to needlessly suffer?

Remember that Cain murdered Able before the law, but God eventually spelled-out the punishment for premeditated murder in Deuteronomy 19:11-13. That's why you'll never find me standing outside a prison lighting candles in protest of the state for executing a mass murderer.

May I remind you that Paul was a MASS murder whom God used to preach the gospel to the children of Israel, kings and Gentiles.
God used a mass murderer to be a tent maker.. Paul's writings inspired by God raise the dead unto life, by changing their earthly frail tents into tabernacles worthy for God.

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
KJV

 

[Dodo_David]

When we hear of evil acts done by someone on the news rather it is a terrorist attack or molestation/rape or a purse grabbed, do we judge them as guilty and worthy of punishment, even death and we cheer on and demand their payment for their sinful ways?

Do we understand that we are doing the work of the enemy? How is it that we demand their sins to be judged but beg for God to overlook ours to be forgiven?

How is that, that we are hypocrites?
Aren't we supposed to set those captive to Sin FREE so that they can live a godly life?
Aren't we supposed to be saving the sinner by understanding that WE ALL ARE BORN SINNERS and need Christ to indwell us so the Word can cleanse us from our sinful ways?

When we are led by the Spirit we shall understand the bondage they are in and want to help them out of it.
But when we are led of our flesh.... we want BLOOD!!

If we do as the ungodly do... we are the same as they are!

Phil 2:16
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV
2 Peter 3:14
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
KJV
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
KJV

It appears to me that the above-quoted OP is a bit of a straw-man argument.

We are not being hypocrites by wanting justice on Earth when a crime has been committed. We are not doing the work of the enemy.

Also, there is a difference between asking God to forgive our sins and asking God to remove all unwanted earthly consequences of our sins.
God may do the former for us without doing the latter for us.

Capital punishment for murderers and incarceration for other criminals are earthly consequences of sins that are also earthly crimes.

By the way, in Exodus 21:14, who tells Moses that murderers are to be put to death?
Answer: God

 

[afaithfulone4u]

This I agree with. I believe that there is a better way to deal with crimes than the use of capital punishment, but I would never hold a candle at a vigil protesting the carrying out of a death sentence as if it were an injustice to be decried. I wish that we would err toward life when dealing with certain crimes, in hopes that a person has a long life and opportunity to understand the wrong they did. But to protest the death penalty as if some grave injustice were occurring is outrageous because it's impossible to indict the death penalty without simultaneously indicting the God who instituted it after the Flood.

But where I disagree with you is that Jesus's silence when a thief said he was receiving what was due to him is acquiescence. Certainly there's no justification for drawing that conclusion unless we are to surmise that Jesus believed that people should die for stealing. It's the very fact that thieves were being executed that should serve as a warning to us about totalitarian government power that writes in statute multiple justifications for execution. When government has the power to kill, it can't be trusted with restraint in the use of that power. It's the reason I'd like to see capital punishment abolished in every state in this country.

How about a prison where they did not just throw you in with a pack of other wild beasts to fend for yourself... but played soothing classical or worship music to sooth the savage beasts and taught men to be good fathers and mothers to be good mothers and made them listen to God's Word day and night to change their moods from anger to love. That may cast out a few demons instead of them learning more tricks of their evil trade seething in their anger at the world for their own misguided actions. God says He desires to give mercy to REPENTANT hearts and minds not just sacrifice them to pay a sentence and then be released back out into the wild even more lawless and reckless then before. Obedience to authority is the key! God is Authority~
And please do not say that any of you believe in freedom of religion for if you know that there is only ONE true God, then why would you patronize the thought of others rights to worship others as god?
God says He is done with winking at idolatry.
Acts 17:29-31
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
KJV

 

[Dodo_David]

How about a prison where they did not just throw you in with a pack of other wild beasts to fend for yourself... but played soothing classical or worship music to sooth the savage beasts and taught men to be good fathers and mothers to be good mothers and made them listen to God's Word day and night to change their moods from anger to love. That may cast out a few demons instead of them learning more tricks of their evil trade seething in their anger at the world for their own misguided actions. God says He desires to give mercy to REPENTANT hearts and minds not just sacrifice them to pay a sentence and then be released back out into the wild even more lawless and reckless then before. Obedience to authority is the key! God is Authority~
And please do not say that any of you believe in freedom of religion for if you know that there is only ONE true God, then why would you patronize the thought of others rights to worship others as god?
God says He is done with winking at idolatry.
Acts 17:29-31
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
KJV

I do not know how it is in other nations, but in the USA, felons in prisons have access to Christian chaplains and have opportunity to attend Christian chapel services. So, felons can still hear the Gospel message if they are receptive to it.

However, no mortal on Earth can make a person receptive to the Gospel.

In John 6:44, Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them ..."
In John 6:65, Jesus says, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

In 1 Corinthians 1:22-24, the Apostle Paul writes, "Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In 1 Corinthians 2:14, Paul writes, "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Anyway, there is no conflict between incarcerating criminals and sharing the Gospel with criminals.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

It appears to me that the above-quoted OP is a bit of a straw-man argument.

We are not being hypocrites by wanting justice on Earth when a crime has been committed. We are not doing the work of the enemy.

Also, there is a difference between asking God to forgive our sins and asking God to remove all unwanted earthly consequences of our sins.
God may do the former for us without doing the latter for us.

Capital punishment for murderers and incarceration for other criminals are earthly consequences of sins that are also earthly crimes.

By the way, in Exodus 21:14, who tells Moses that murderers are to be put to death?
Answer: God

You mean that God demanded that Moses be put to death for killing the Egyptian? Of course you didn't say that, but why wasn't he?

I thought you all believed that we are not under the Law of Moses? Aren't we under the law of Grace? Do unto others as you would have DONE TO YOU?? Do you want your sins to be flaunted in the media, or destroying your family due to what quickly turns to slander, judgment and false accusations and death of the tongue by gossip once someone catches wind of it.

Shouldn't we be like Noah's sons who covered their father's nakedness by covering it up before it was found out for we all fall short and need just a little help back up to our higher position. God's people are supposed to raise up men's standards where as carnal man just wants to condemn to watch them squirm and keep them in fear wallowing in their own blood.

Yes we will always suffer the consequences of our actions that is a given because God tells us the end from the beginning warning us of the consequences of our actions... but it should not be of our own hands if you call yourself the temple of God. Leave that to those who continue to be the dead, offspring of Satan, because they reject Christ, the Seed of God, to be willing to be anything better. But our commission is in saving souls not standing & cheering with the ungodly to watch them be destroyed.

And the angels rejoice when a sinner is saved, not when they come under judgment. Jesus knows that we suffer due to our captivity to sin.. That is why the Word became flesh to set us free from sin so that we don't need laws to tell us what to do, for they will be written on our hearts by God. These poor(DISEASED,SICK, POVERTY STICKEN DUE TO LOW LIFE) souls do not know the ways of God, the god they follow is a slave driver and it is due to them not having a good up bringing in God's Word due to deterioration of godly morals handed down weakened through generations, nor able to follow Christ due to an unclean spirit.
1 Cor 5:9-13
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
KJV

Yes we are to HATE SIN, but not hate the man whom God created to be in HIS IMAGE(ATTRIBUTES)

Gen 9:4-6
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
KJV
God uses willing hearts to carry out His will rather it is for good or bad... as a child of God being the temple we should only have a willing heart to be used for good! God will NEVER make one of a pure heart to do good, to do evil in His sight.. that He saves for the willing heart since Christ.
1 Chron 28:2-3
2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.
KJV

2 Tim 2:19-22
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
KJV

Again I say, if you think of yourself as the temple of God then you will not be a vessel of dishonor. Even though the fallen angels can not obeying Christ in faithfulness being holy.. they do obey God when He sends them to do His bidding as in judgment. Know that all of the angels in Rev that pour out the vials and bowls that we gasp at their destruction, work for God.

I do not know how it is in other nations, but in the USA, felons in prisons have access to Christian chaplains and have opportunity to attend Christian chapel services. So, felons can still hear the Gospel message if they are receptive to it.

However, no mortal on Earth can make a person receptive to the Gospel.

In John 6:44, Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them ..."
In John 6:65, Jesus says, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

In 1 Corinthians 1:22-24, the Apostle Paul writes, "Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

In 1 Corinthians 2:14, Paul writes, "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Anyway, there is no conflict between incarcerating criminals and sharing the Gospel with criminals.

That is absolutely true that we can not make a man's heart for God. That is totally in the souls free will to choose that. That is why I say we are not to try and buy men for God with trinkets or physical needs for they will only return to us as their god to get more.

But faith cometh by hearing and hearing the Word of God. We are what we eat and if we feed those whom we have in our midst in such as a prison, then why not take the opportunity to pour the gospel into them for the LOVE of them. God's Word is His Love it is what keeps us safe, prosperous, healthy, and walking in the blessings of God. The Word of God is a reward, not a curse as many perceive it to be. For by the Word are kings reigning and disease is taken away and prosperity comes.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

How about a prison where they did not just throw you in with a pack of other wild beasts to fend for yourself... but played soothing classical or worship music to sooth the savage beasts and taught men to be good fathers and mothers to be good mothers and made them listen to God's Word day and night to change their moods from anger to love. That may cast out a few demons instead of them learning more tricks of their evil trade seething in their anger at the world for their own misguided actions. God says He desires to give mercy to REPENTANT hearts and minds not just sacrifice them to pay a sentence and then be released back out into the wild even more lawless and reckless then before. Obedience to authority is the key! God is Authority~
And please do not say that any of you believe in freedom of religion for if you know that there is only ONE true God, then why would you patronize the thought of others rights to worship others as god?
God says He is done with winking at idolatry.
Acts 17:29-31
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
KJV

How does believing in only one true God prevent me from believing in freedom of religion? This is a lapse in logic.

 

[Dan57]

May I remind you that Paul was a MASS murder whom God used to preach the gospel to the children of Israel, kings and Gentiles.
God used a mass murderer to be a tent maker.. Paul's writings inspired by God raise the dead unto life, by changing their earthly frail tents into tabernacles worthy for God.

While its true that Paul oversaw executions, he was a legal representative appointed by the Sanhedrin and authorized to persecute Christians. So Saul was not operating outside of legal/religious law. God called Paul and redirected his misguided heart.

But while Paul repented, not everyone does. So imo, its not prudent for a Christian to automatically forgive a criminal who has no desire to turn from their ways and live a Godly life. Your assuming that the person raping your daughter wants your help, and your assuming that the terrorist slitting your throat has a conscience, but what if they only want to kill you? Letting violent people do as they please with the hope that they'll come around to Christianity by force feeding them inspirational music presents a reality that is very dangerous for society. Some people are just dangerous, commit evil, will never believe, and need to be separated from law abiding citizens.

"The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" (Psalm 58:10).

 

[afaithfulone4u]

How does believing in only one true God prevent me from believing in freedom of religion? This is a lapse in logic.

It can not PREVENT you from deception, but if you are a true believer in ONE True God then are you double minded to think there is more than one?
Do you believe there are other gods? If you say no, then why should we pretend and what does that say to God about our faith? I hear of prayer meetings where all religions come together and they pray to their god and (SOME)Christians pray to their god(I say god because they can't possibly believe that there is one True God or they would not participate with idolatry) in hopes that one of the gods comes through with their prayer request.
There is a story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal coming together but you will see it was not to pray together... but to PROVE who was the True God. Here is glimpse of that account:
1 Kings 18:21-24
21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:
24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
KJV
I will let you look the rest up if you are not familiar with the outcome.
Do you know that when Jesus returns, there will be no Freedom of religion? All will worship The Almighty God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, King of the Universe and there is NO OTHER!! And how will that be? Because they are being separated right now as we speak and while man can not know the heart of a man... GOD CAN and He is not mocked.
Ex 20:3-6
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
KJV
Isa 45:22
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
KJV
Isa 46:9-10
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
KJV
Zech 14:18-19
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV
Rom 3:29-30
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
KJV