Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

[Hobie]

Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the Wicked...

Job 21:30 King James Version (KJV)
"30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath."

Psalm 37:10 King James Version (KJV)
"10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

Psalm 37:28 King James Version (KJV)
"28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 37:38 King James Version (KJV)
"38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 73:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
"17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

Psalm 92:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

Psalm 104:35 King James Version (KJV)
"35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord."

Psalm 145:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

Proverbs 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
"22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

Nahum 1:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry."

Malachi 4:1King James Version (KJV)
"4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
"8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
"6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

2 Peter 2:9-12 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Peter 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

2 Peter 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

Revelation 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
"9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
"8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

 

[Zachariah.]

These are all very fancy ways to say for every action is a reaction. If you are a bad person, bad things happen to you.

All things are compensated.

 

[Hobie]

Now we have some who say 'I' am 'immortal' and go to heaven when I die, so nothing can wipe out 'my' existence, but they leave out what scripture says.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Only God has immortality right now, as these scripture makes that abundantly clear. The question is can humans achieve it, and if so, how?
Mark 10:17 - And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:25 - And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 - And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Notice, the questions in the verses above talk about inheriting eternal life and that is a future tense event not a current one. They were asking what they had to do to inherit eternal life; which also says they didn't already have it. So, what did they, and we, have to do to inherit eternal life?

John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 17:2 - As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
1 Timothy 6:19 - Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Again we find that eternal life is a future event but its conditional; you must believe in Him.

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Heirs receive an inheritance.
Hebrews 9:15 - And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
1 John 5:11 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

These verses clearly show that eternal life is not an automatic thing and we now the soul is not immortal and dies.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So when it comes to the end, the wicked including those who claim they follow Christ but only say with the lips but their hearts are far from Him. He knows and judges who are the sheep(saints) and goats(wicked) and confronts those who are not true.
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 25:33
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And we see what happens to them...

Matthew 13:40-42
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Hobie]

These are all very fancy ways to say for every action is a reaction. If you are a bad person, bad things happen to you.

All things are compensated.

But can sin remain, no. So the wicked and the devil and his minions, any trace of sin must cease to exist from the universe..

 

[Zachariah.]

Now we have some who say 'I' am 'immortal' and go to heaven when I die, so nothing can wipe out 'my' existence, but they leave out what scripture says.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Only God has immortality right now, as these scripture makes that abundantly clear. The question is can humans achieve it, and if so, how?
Mark 10:17 - And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Luke 10:25 - And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 - And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Notice, the questions in the verses above talk about inheriting eternal life and that is a future tense event not a current one. They were asking what they had to do to inherit eternal life; which also says they didn't already have it. So, what did they, and we, have to do to inherit eternal life?

John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 17:2 - As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
1 Timothy 6:19 - Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Again we find that eternal life is a future event but its conditional; you must believe in Him.

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Heirs receive an inheritance.
Hebrews 9:15 - And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
1 John 5:11 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

These verses clearly show that eternal life is not an automatic thing and we now the soul is not immortal and dies.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So when it comes to the end, the wicked including those who claim they follow Christ but only say with the lips but their hearts are far from Him. He knows and judges who are the sheep(saints) and goats(wicked) and confronts those who are not true.
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 25:33
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And we see what happens to them...

Matthew 13:40-42
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Without being rude you should learn to use your own conscience and discernment. Start by not taking scripture at face value and just accepting it as True. There is no learning in that. After you come to a conciouse understanding of scripture it becomes possible to articulate and explain things in your own words.

Rather than just copying and pasting. Any un learned person can do that.

Go challenge yourself. Come up with new interpretations, even if they are wrong, they are still your own.

 

[Hobie]

Without being rude you should learn to use your own conscience and discernment. Start by not taking scripture at face value and just accepting it as True. There is no learning in that. After you come to a conciouse understanding of scripture it becomes possible to articulate and explain things in your own words.

Rather than just copying and pasting. Any un learned person can do that.

Go challenge yourself. Come up with new interpretations, even if they are wrong, they are still your own.

Yes, Eve did that (rather than the words of God), and we see the results..

 

[Zachariah.]

But can sin remain, no. So the wicked and the devil and his minions, any trace of sin must cease to exist from the universe..

You have a very fatalistic understanding of what sin is.

Sin to put it simply is attachment. Attachment to desires mostly looked apon.

The Spirit that is attached to your flesh, which makes your soul is technically sin. This is why the bible refers to the word "flesh". It means it quite litteraly.

So... if we are to understand these scriptures to your extreme, then we should purge our physicle bodies? I don't think so. These scripts, like most scripture are referring to our emotional qualities, our soul. Internal things, not external.

 

[Hobie]

You have a very fatalistic understanding of what sin is.

Sin to put it simply is attachment. Attachment to desires mostly looked apon.

The Spirit that is attached to your flesh, which makes your soul is technically sin. This is why the bible refers to the word "flesh". It means it quite litteraly.

So... if we are to understand these scriptures to your extreme, then we should purge our physicle bodies? I don't think so. These scripts, like most scripture are referring to our emotional qualities, our soul. Internal things, not external.

So will the saints take this 'attachment' with them to be with Christ in the heavenly kingdom, I should say not. Christ is coming to redeem us from sin after He has cleansed us so that we no longer remain full of sin and slaves to it. So I dont think we will be in heaven starting another war in heaven like the devil did, we will not be taken up to say nothing of let in.

 

[Zachariah.]

So will the saints take this 'attachment' with them to be with Christ in the heavenly kingdom, I should say not. Christ is coming to redeem us from sin after He has cleansed us so that we no longer remain full of sin and slaves to it. So I dont think we will be in heaven starting another war in heaven like the devil did, we will not be taken up to say nothing of let in.

You speak of the bible like a child speaks of a story book. The kingdom of heaven is found within you.

Blessings to you.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the Wicked...

Depicting the wicked as "destroyed forever," or "destroyed by fire," does not solve the question of annihilationism. This is the standard way of describing the removal of apostates from Israel, by their being destroyed by their enemies, and losing their inheritance in Israel. Their fields were burned, the people were killed, or they were transported away into captivity. It was a complete removal from the paradise of a godly nation, just as Adam and Eve were removed from a paradisical garden.

I would argue that those who were thus judged and removed from God's holy congregation are taken away to somewhere else after they have been judged and destroyed. Their spirits are outfitted to live in a place called "Outer Darkness" where they will live out functional lives for eternity in a place somewhat removed from God's presence and blessing.

That is what they want, and that is what they'll get, to be not bothered by God's presence. But they will not be able to enjoy the benefits of His close presence. That's the deal.

Neither will they be able to use their independent judgments to obtain the kind of "godhood" they seek for themselves. They will always have to serve God, as they have all been created in the image of God to display God's likeness. They cannot produce anything good apart from service to God, even if under forced servitude. It will be like a "loveless marriage." And yes, I would call that "eternal torment."

 

[Hobie]

Depicting the wicked as "destroyed forever," or "destroyed by fire," does not solve the question of annihilationism. This is the standard way of describing the removal of apostates from Israel, by their being destroyed by their enemies, and losing their inheritance in Israel. Their fields were burned, the people were killed, or they were transported away into captivity. It was a complete removal from the paradise of a godly nation, just as Adam and Eve were removed from a paradisical garden.

I would argue that those who were thus judged and removed from God's holy congregation are taken away to somewhere else after they have been judged and destroyed. Their spirits are outfitted to live in a place called "Outer Darkness" where they will live out functional lives for eternity in a place somewhat removed from God's presence and blessing.

That is what they want, and that is what they'll get, to be not bothered by God's presence. But they will not be able to enjoy the benefits of His close presence. That's the deal.

Neither will they be able to use their independent judgments to obtain the kind of "godhood" they seek for themselves. They will always have to serve God, as they have all been created in the image of God to display God's likeness. They cannot produce anything good apart from service to God, even if under forced servitude. It will be like a "loveless marriage." And yes, I would call that "eternal torment."

No, the question of sin and its wages must be resolved and Gods justice shown to be true to all. No one that remains under the bondage of sin, and its originator and his evil angels, will continue anywhere in Gods presences, and God is Omnipresent so they will cease to exist.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, the question of sin and its wages must be resolved and Gods justice shown to be true to all. No one that remains under the bondage of sin, and its originator and his evil angels, will continue anywhere in Gods presences, and God is Omnipresent so they will cease to exist.

We can agree that the Lost will not remain in God's paradisical Presence. They will be shipped outside of the Kingdom, and dwell forever in an dark place. That's about as far as I can go with this.

 

[Hobie]

We can agree that the Lost will not remain in God's paradisical Presence. They will be shipped outside of the Kingdom, and dwell forever in an dark place. That's about as far as I can go with this.

Well Gods Word show us..
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well Gods Word show us..
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Yes, that's what it says.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Ecclesiastes 9, Ecclesiastes 12.

 

[Hobie]

You speak of the bible like a child speaks of a story book. The kingdom of heaven is found within you.

Blessings to you.

So what is the need for a Redeemer if you have it already, and what of sinners, do they have it 'within' them also. That certainly is not scriptural..

 

[Zachariah.]

So what is the need for a Redeemer if you have it already, and what of sinners, do they have it 'within' them also. That certainly is not scriptural..

The Bible is magical yes, but it's not magical in a literal childish sence. It is magical in Truth and is an award that is bestowed apon you once you have reached the level of intuitive understanding to interpret it properly.

 

[Hobie]

The Bible is magical yes, but it's not magical in a literal childish sence. It is magical in Truth and is an award that is bestowed apon you once you have reached the level of intuitive understanding to interpret it properly.

We know what this is and the origin where it comes from and what is causes..

 

[Taken]

Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish?

In reference to human men whose bodies die having rejected the Lord God…
Shall be bodily destroyed and remembered no more.

In reference to angels who have rejected the Lord God….they ARE sprits and can not die or be destroyed…thus shall live forever…separated from the Lord God AND Glorified men.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[O'Darby]

How many of those who favor Universalism or Annihilationism start from the position "I would like this to be true, so let me see if I can construct a biblical argument around it"? Pretty much all of them? I find the biblical doctrine of damnation as unappealing as anyone else, but it is the most biblical position and the one the vast majority of Christians have always believed. I make my peace by telling myself that the fate of the unsaved will be worthy of the God in whom we trust.