Do you admit that the gospel cannot change the world?

[Berean]

Do you admit that the gospel cannot change the world?

The Gospel isn't about changing the world. Jesus didn't say, "Go and convert the world." The Gospel is for calling out a "little Flock", a people for his name (Acts 15:14)

 

[Lambano]

But they still don't realize one thing.Even if Jesus comes back, the world will not change.Because believers themselves have not changed, how can they change the world?

Did you change when you became a believer?

 

[soberxp]

Did you change when you became a believer?

Think about my own changes, all of which are growing up in accumulated knowledge bit by bit.From disobedience to obedience.From question to answer.From anger to calm.
Yeah, but it's not as simple as it sounds.The process of these changes is a very difficult one.It's like a guy has never encountered a difficult thing.The first thing that comes to mind is being at a loss.Then face it in all kinds of unreasonable ways to A difficult thing.Finally, it is found that these methods only depend on human will.That's why it makes things more difficult and unsolvable.Only by completely entrusting yourself to God's will and obeying God's word.Things will be much easier.

Yes,I have changed.

 

[Lambano]

.Finally, it is found that these methods only depend on human will.That's why it makes things more difficult and unsolvable.Only by completely entrusting yourself to God's will and obeying God's word.

I hear tell that sometimes God changes a human's will.

Then has something in the world really changed?

 

[soberxp]

I hear tell that sometimes God changes a human's will.

Yes,From birth to the end.

Then has something in the world really changed?

No.the world is still running under the depths of Satan.

 

[Lambano]

Yes,From birth to the end.

No.the world is still running under the depths of Satan.

But you are in the world, and you have changed.

 

[soberxp]

But you are in the world, and you have changed.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

7:23
Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.


Romans
11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[JustMe]

The Gospel isn't about changing the world. Jesus didn't say, "Go and convert the world." The Gospel is for calling out a "little Flock", a people for his name (Acts 15:14)

Since the gospel was first preached by the original disciples of the Messiah in the first century, each generation thereafter, including today, has fewer people come to true salvation through it. The proportion of false or insincere believers compared to genuine believers has increased and will continue to grow until the time of the harvest.

The gospel was not intended to save the entire world to true salvation, by design. Most people will not enter the Kingdom of God. The believer represents the salt and light in this world, to stabillze it with some manner of peace and civility, with love, not to convert the true evil of this world. The latter is God's domain.

Further, especially since the start of this new century, a more inclusive, universal form of salvation has gained popularity, suggesting that even unbelievers and those hardened against God will eventually be saved. It is a new dastardly form and argument for promoting the brotherhood of man, separate from their maker.

This view presents the plan of salvation as one aimed at redeeming all humanity, with the purpose of existence being to become sons and daughters of God and to inherit glory for everyone.; regarding the gospel, outdated and obsolete.

God chose his people, and uses them for his purpose in this life and in this world for his pupose and pleasure.

 

[Berean]

Since the gospel was first preached by the original disciples of the Messiah in the first century, each generation thereafter, including today, has fewer people come to true salvation through it. The proportion of false or insincere believers compared to genuine believers has increased and will continue to grow until the time of the harvest.

The "true salvation" is only for "true Christians", the little flock, the elect (Luke 12:32; Col. 3:12). Those invited to share with Jesus in His reign over the earth (2 Timothy 2:12; Rev. 20:6). Well, if they're reigning, who are they reigning over? The world of mankind, the same world that Jesus died for, after all, He "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time," (1 Tim. 2:6), that "due time" is during the Kingdom.

YOUR job, if you believe you have been called, is to be "more diligent to make your call and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10) because those who are "faithful until death" will be given "the crown of life." - Rev 2:10

RR

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Do you admit that the gospel cannot change the world?

The Gospel was never intended to change the world and those that think that is what Christians are called to do are in error.

No, the Gospel is for calling people to come out of the world in to His marvelous light - 1 Peter 2:9

The world will only be changed when Jesus returns and locks up the devil and those serving Him in hell.

Glad we got this all cleared up.

 

[Justified]

This is just his personal opinion.

It is just whose personal interpretation? Those are two books, one by a sociologist and another by a well known historian, that are very well researched. Clearly you haven’t read them and so should not have any opinion whatsoever about them.

Then how do you understand the two witnesses in the book of revelation?

I don’t see what this has to do with the conversation, which is about whether or not the gospel can change the world. We know it can, because it has.

 

[JustMe]

The "true salvation" is only for "true Christians", the little flock, the elect (Luke 12:32; Col. 3:12). Those invited to share with Jesus in His reign over the earth (2 Timothy 2:12; Rev. 20:6). Well, if they're reigning, who are they reigning over? The world of mankind, the same world that Jesus died for, after all, He "gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time," (1 Tim. 2:6), that "due time" is during the Kingdom.

YOUR job, if you believe you have been called, is to be "more diligent to make your call and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10) because those who are "faithful until death" will be given "the crown of life." - Rev 2:10

RR

I likely hold a different eschatological perspective than you do, and therefore interpret verses such as 1 Timothy 2:12 in a distinct way.

(2 Timothy 2:11) The saying is trustworthy: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
(2 Timothy 2:12) if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he will also deny us;
(2 Timothy 2:13) if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

Spiritually and in my heart, I have already died with Christ. I live and endure with him now in his Kingdom, as my spirit confirms. I am actively running the race of victory today. This is a present lifestyle, not something reserved for the future. I have access to and live with Christ and the Spirit of his Father in the Kingdom today, not at some later time. I do not believe that reigning with Christ is something that happens in a distant future, which is the common eschatological view.

The talents and gifts I have been given are used and developed now, continuing into the future—not only after death.

Indeed, I am part of the first resurrection—my spirit is alive today, not in some future era. The second death holds no power over me now.

Regarding 2 Peter, I do not see it as a task or burden. I exercise diligence today with what I have been given. This diligence flows naturally from my rebirth in Christ—it is a spontaneous growth. If it felt like a job or chore, I would question whether I am truly reborn.

Today, I partake in the divine nature of the Father, even if only in a limited way, much less than the full measure given to His Son.

(2 Peter 1:3) His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
(2 Peter 1:4) Through these, he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, escaping the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
(2 Peter 1:5) For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
(2 Peter 1:6) and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
(2 Peter 1:7) and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
(2 Peter 1:8) For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective or unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Peter 1:9) But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
(2 Peter 1:10) Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,
(2 Peter 1:11) and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Berean]

I likely hold a different eschatological perspective than you do, and therefore interpret verses such as 1 Timothy 2:12 in a distinct way.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Clearly you haven’t read them

He should stick to the Bible.

I don’t see what this has to do with the conversation, which is about whether or not the gospel can change the world. We know it can, because it has.

Ask him about the price of tea in China.

He claims to be living in China which is weird since the communist government would not allow him to have access to a Christian website like this one.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In other words, "When they future gets here, we'll see how it all works out"

 

[soberxp]

Ask him about the price of tea in China.

He claims to be living in China which is weird since the communist government would not allow him to have access to a Christian website like this one.

What if I said that I was listed as the top secret in our country?forget it.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

What if I said that I was listed as the top secret in our country?

Wow, ain't you something!

I know how the communist government in China seeks to control what their people think and believe

Churches must register with the CCP to remain open and they must get approval from the CCP concerning what they teach to people

 

[soberxp]

Wow, ain't you something!

Because there are too many miracles around me, China has a lot of monitoring equipment.Those devices recorded those things.And everything that recorded these things was Recycled.
I have no evidence to prove it.It's just that the interesting thing isCan I talk to you in private?

I know how the communist government in China seeks to control what their people think and believe.

Every country does the same thing, China and the United States.So I don't like discussing political matters.Because humans like to lie.They don't know they're Under the depth of Satan.After all, no one is more justice than God.

Churches must register with the CCP to remain open and they must get approval from the CCP concerning what they teach to people

Doesn't the church in America teach the same thing?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Every country does the same thing, China and the United States.

Yeah but in the US you don't get sent to prison or a re-education camp or murdered if you speak out against the government.

In China one only speaks out against the government a few times if that and bad things happen to them

They don't know they're Under the depth of satan

Not true for real Christians who are skillful in the Word of righteousness

Christians are free, even if they kill us. If they kill us they are doing us a favor!

Doesn't the church in America teach the same thing?

No. Here anybody can start a church and it's none of the government's business what you teach in your church.

Unless you are morman and you try to have multiple wives or start having babies with under age girls as they will get one sent to prison

 

[soberxp]

Yeah but in the US you don't get sent to prison or a re-education camp or murdered if you speak out against the government.

In China one only speaks out against the government a few times if that and bad things happen to them

Hmm. How interesting,It's not what you think.re-education camp or murdered,This is not the former Soviet Union or the United States.

Not true for real Christians who are skillful in the Word of righteousness

Christians are free, even if they kill us. If they kill us they are doing us a favor!




No. Here anybody can start a church and it's none of the government's business what you teach in your church.

Unless you are morman and you try to have multiple wives or start having babies with under age girls as they will get one sent to prison

I don't think you understand what I mean.And your understanding doesn't mean The facts of American society.
I wonder if American schools teach such a theory.When domestic contradictions increase, the state will turn internal contradictions into external contradictions.
So both China and the United States are doing the same thing.
When Americans say that the church in China is carrying out the teachings of the government,The possible reality is that the church in the United States is doing this and it is secret.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I wonder if American schools teach such a theory

Christians learn from the Holy Spirit based on what God's Word teaches so it matters not what schools teach

So both China and the United States are doing the same thing

No bub, far from it.

You must be pro CCP and allowed to be here to advocate for communism