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Do you believe in the Trinity?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Peacebewithyou, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    I've come across some posters on another thread that dismiss that concept of the Trinity. Rather than the historical Christian view that God is one being eternally existing in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) Modalism is embraced. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God never exists as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time, he can only manifest himself as one person at any specific time. This view was rejected as heresy in the 3rd century. I'm curious if others on the forums reject the Trinity and also believe in Modalism?
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I'll bring a quote in here from another thread.(thesuperjag;26765)
    God is not subject to Earth only, nor is He subject to Heaven only. He is both in Heaven and Earth.
    JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour.
     
  3. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    But what does that mean? Do you believe that while God the Son (Jesus) was on Earth, God the Father was in heaven? That they are seperate?
     
  4. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    I do believe, because it has been shown in the Bible in plain sight1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
     
  5. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    I agree SuperKal. Consider this verse from Luke: Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.Obviously Jesus and the Father are seperate -they have two different wills.
     
  6. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    true, all three have different agendas and different goals, but all three are one in the same, and are monitored and controlled by the Father.It's like our own bodies... our arms, legs and feet are in a way separate from us because of the nerves and impulses, and the occasional spasm, but through our brain, we control what we want to do with our hands, feet, and bodies.at least, that's the way I see it.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I completly agree with trinity as father,son,holy ghostIm not sure we will ever in our flesh bodies completly comprehend the Allof what that means. I can simplify it as we are made in the image of God we have a body, a mind,a soulthey all operate togther but also separate, our body may crave a doughtnut, ourmind says it will make you fat , and our soul says God give me the strenth to to deny the craving of that body and listen to my mind.[​IMG]The differnce being God can seperate these in away we can not because ours are trapped in this clay vessel until God release us from the flesh bodyGod does not suffer from this restriction.
     
  8. dgc

    dgc New Member

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    excellent anallagy Kriss.Do not forget First John: In the beggining was the word and the word was God and the word was with God. Whom later became flesh. Then had to go that the comforter may come.
     
  9. Jonous

    Jonous New Member

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    (thesuperjag;26757)
    Yes Christ was praying to Himself, since He is God. At the same time, He is teaching His disciples how to pray to the Heavenly Father (which is Himself)Christ had the title everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6
    Jag if what you say is true then verses like "23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23would not make sense.Praise the Lord.
     
  10. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  11. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    (Jonous;26788)
    Jag if what you say is true then verses like "23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23would not make sense.Praise the Lord.
    Do you like picking scripture or will you go on further to John 17:21-22?
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;26766)
    I've come across some posters on another thread that dismiss that concept of the Trinity. Rather than the historical Christian view that God is one being eternally existing in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) Modalism is embraced. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God never exists as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time, he can only manifest himself as one person at any specific time. This view was rejected as heresy in the 3rd century. I'm curious if others on the forums reject the Trinity and also believe in Modalism?
    I think this heresy may even be traced back to the Gnostics. Not a wholly bad bunch, but their Ideas were definitely off the wall, and, as you can see, deserved rejection.what I find a more interesting question though, is how do you understand the Trinity? Though it seems that Nicea, acting as an ecumenical council, sets the doctrine in stone as normative, there are many who still see the Trinity slightly differently, and understand it differently. Even while all agreeing with the creed of Nicea. Jonous, I think your understanding of the Trinity is what is leading you to those conclusions. There are thousands of Christian scholars who know about the passages often used to show that the Trinity isn't "right", and they don't just ignore these passages. In fact, I don't think these passages even pose a real problem for them, as they have a correct.. or what I think is correct.. understanding. Perhaps you should try to look at it from a different angle? I myself don't know if I should share what I think about the Trinity, as I might get myself into trouble until things cool down. However, I would like to stress that the apostolic teaching is amply evidenced to include the trinitarian concept. We can trace it back to the early church way before Nicea.In Hope,~Tyrel
     
  13. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;26806)
    Do you like picking scripture or will you go on further to John 17:21-22?
    I'm going to quote the entire prayer for consideration: 20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."In the verses you refrenced, Jesus is praying that His followers may be as one as He and the Father are one. Is that where your getting that Jesus IS the Father? No so. Jesus is praying that we may be united spiritually as He & is Father are united spiritually. Otherwise, if it meant what you're saying - that Jesus IS actually the Father, an argument could be made (using v. 21) that we eventually "become" God which is heresy. When a husband and wife become "one" they are united - but they don't physically become the same person. Same idea. Look at each verse - Jesus says: He was sent by the Father (21) He was given glory by the Father (22) He was sent & loved by the Father (23) He was given glory by the Father and known by the FAther before the creation of the world (24) He knows the FAther (25) He gives witness to the Father so that we may come to know the FAther (26) Where do you get that Jesus IS the Father? Those verses are clearly identifying two seperate "beings."
     
  14. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    God is a Triune God, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
     
  15. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    In the verses you refrenced, Jesus is praying that His followers may be as one as He and the Father are one.Is that where your getting that Jesus IS the Father?
    Yes
    No so. Jesus is praying that we may be united spiritually as He & is Father are united spiritually. Otherwise, if it meant what you're saying - that Jesus IS actually the Father, an argument could be made (using v. 21) that we eventually "become" God which is heresy.
    See now you're being Prudent, you're adding more to the discrepancy instead of looking at it more spiritual.
    Look at each verse - Jesus says:He was sent by the Father (21)He was given glory by the Father (22)He was sent & loved by the Father (23)He was given glory by the Father and known by the FAther before the creation of the world (24)He knows the FAther (25)He gives witness to the Father so that we may come to know the FAther (26)
    The Body Was Created, Jesus Christ was fully Man and God, as Man he Had to Glorify the One who Sent him just as all the Prophets Did. He was the Fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:18, which was Son of Man. He was Son of God because his Body was Created Hebrews 2:17 and since Through him and Spiritually speaking we are Sons of God, he was the True Son of God, because the Father Dwelled in Him Colossians 2:9.That's addressing your first two issuesThe Reason the Father Testifies of his Son and Vice Versa is Cause of this Verse in the bibleIn the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established (2Corinthians 13:1.Then in 1st John 5:7, The three bare record in Heaven Father, Word, and Holy Ghost, which are One! Because God is perfected in these three manifestations and witnesses of himself, EVERY WORD WAS ESTABLISHED! The Son could do nothing without the Father.Please Explain john 14:17
     
  16. John

    John Member

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    In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established (2Corinthians 13:1.But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.” Then they asked him, “Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” (John 8:16-19) Scripture says there must be two or three witnesses, If Jesus was the Father, then that would be only one witness. Instead we see two the Father and the son(Phil 1:2) Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul is showing us that the Father and Son are separate,still after Jesus has gone back to heaven(2 John 1:3)Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love. John also is showing us that there are two Father and Son Stevens vision“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:56)Steven also sees God The Father and God the Son
     
  17. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Scripture says there must be two or three witnesses, If Jesus was the Father, then that would be only one witness. Instead we see two the Father and the son
    Jesus being the Nature of Man and God, as Human HE COULD not be a witness of HImself, But as God he can witness to himself! So the Human Nature, the Human Side of Christ could not Testify he was the Mashiach(Messiah) But the Father in Him, could, because he Was God and not the Man.
    Paul is showing us that the Father and Son are separate,still after Jesus has gone back to heaven
    Greetings From ME and Myself, does that make me different from Myself? That's the Same thing as Paul Saying God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    John also is showing us that there are two Father and Son
    Yet you all say the The three are One in 1st John 5:7 and all of a Sudden he's seperated? Do you see your folly?
    Steven also sees God The Father and God the Son
    The Right hand is SYmbolic and Spiritual Meaning. The Right hand means all Power, like Matthew 28:18. If you take everything literal and with a carnal understanding you will get the wrong message. He's not literally sitting at the Right hand of the Father, but as a Son of Man, Jesus Christ, Son of God, He Sits Alone! Crowning himself!
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Dear all of you guys (except Unorthodox Christian)If Yahshua, the Son of God, is seperated from His Father, Please explain why does Yahshua has the title "the mighty God everlasting Father" in Isaiah 9:6?He was given the title everlasting FatherJag
     
  19. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    I'll throw my thoughts in on this. Yes, I believe in the Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All God, separate entities and yet one. Don't ask me to explain it. Probably the best comparison to understanding this is understanding ourselves since we are created in a triune nature like God (and as sons of God are like Him as well).God's Spirit gives us life, and the body is animated thus we have a soul.A crude analogy: The computer has hardware (body) and software (soul) which is the very essence of the machine (each computer has its own personality). But it is animated by electricity (spirit). It is very difficult, if not impossible to separate them all. That's how we are, and that's how God is.BTW. When God's word is compared to a two-edged sword dividing asunder the soul and spirit, the message there is that it is oftentimes impossible to divide them---- that's how discerning God's Word is! It can discern that which is impossible otherwise.
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (thesuperjag;26906)
    Dear all of you guys (except Unorthodox Christian)If Yahshua, the Son of God, is seperated from His Father, Please explain why does Yahshua has the title "the mighty God everlasting Father" in Isaiah 9:6?He was given the title everlasting FatherJag
    Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."He is the "Everlasting Father", that Father that has no beginning nor no end. This is looking foreward to the second advent, from Isaiah 8:8 the child "O Immanuel" was the coming of Christ in the first advent as the baby born in the manger. We see here that Jesus will return as the King, with the government of the entire world on His shoulders. He will come then to give counsel to all those that will listen, and He will be seen and known for who is; the Almighty God. He will comes again in our generation as God eternal, the KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS;Some people find this trinity easier to understand if they think of it as Rolls played or titles held Example: one can be you "yourself "but can also be a "son" and could also be a "father" three differnt roles but one
     
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