Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Bible Highlighter]

Joel's prophecy had to do with baptism with the HS, which was fulfilled.

--Apostles laying hands upon another is not in the Bible called baptism with the HS,
--only the Lord would baptize with the HS (Mt 3:11) hence no man can administer baptism with the HS for the great commission has men administering water baptism.
--if HS baptism is the one baptism of Eph 4 that makes one a disciple, that saves, then that means those whom the Lord has not baptize with the HS are lost due to the Lord's culpability in failing to baptize them with the HS and the Lord is showing respecter of person with whom He does and does not baptize with the HS contrary to Acts 10:34-35.

Mt 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Law here refers to the OT law of Moses of which Joel was one of the prophets. If Joel's prophecies were not fulfilled by Christ then all that OT law is still in effect including the animal sacrifices. the purifications, etc, etc. Of course Christ did fulfill all the OT law taking it out of the way replacing it with His NT, Col 2:14-16; Eph 2:14-16). The word "till" being a time limiting word, that is, the OT would last TILL Christ took it out of the way by fulfilling it. So if has not been taken out of the way through fulfillment then it must still ALL be in effect.

Not sure how you can ignore Acts 19 as a legitimate baptism by the Spirit with tongues and prophecy happening. So it was not just two events as you claimed before.

Anyways, a person first needs to believe in the Lord for salvation first before being water baptized. Just being water baptized without first believing does not help a person. Apparently you think that Paul and Silas did not really mean a belief in Jesus saves when they told him this and therefore you have to change the meaning of belief here into something else.

Acts 16:30-31
30 “And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.””

According to you… this word “Believe” is in reference to “baptism with a belief in the Lord Jesus” but that’s not what Paul and Silas said.

 

[ElieG12]

If "Spirit baptism" (whatever you think it is or function at modern times) were a replacement for water baptism, Jesus would not have been baptized.

Water baptism is a fundamental and primary teaching of Christians. There are too many "independent" Christians today and they don't know how to deal with that requirement of biblical Christians since they don't want to accept anyone putting hands on them (in the good sense). There would be ALWAYS some human person over us: our parents, our government, the police, our teachers, our boss, our spiritual leaders, etc. Proud is not a Christian thing, but an evil one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My point is beliff is a work God gave to man to do contrary to those who think man is saved doing nothing, that is, saved by faith only.

You are not taking under consideration of how salvation works in regards to time.

In other words, do you believe the thief on the cross was not saved because he could not be water baptized?

Granted, I am for water baptism in the name of Jesus as a part of LIVING out our faith. Water baptism is something we must do as a part of the faith AFTER we are first saved by God’s grace through faith (without works ) (Ephesians 2:8-9). I believe water baptism is a part of our Sanctification (as a part of God’s plan of salvation) if we are blessed by God to be able to find faithful believers who will help us to be water baptized and to be faithful to Jesus. I believe a Christian is still saved by God’s grace if they have not found like minded believers to baptize them. For you: Being immersed in water by other believers is what initially saves a person. I believe Cornelius was saved prior to being baptized. You can come up with whatever you interpretation or excuse you like. But the plain reading of Scripture shows that they were given the down payment of their inheritance. Granted, we can forfeit our inheritance due to later justifying sin again. For the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Babies who die before they are born are saved by God’s grace. This is why Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world. He was saving all of humanity in their being an innocent baby. But when sin came, they became separated from God and they need to born again by accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior. Salvation is not this neat one time package that many make it out to be. Not all will be saved the same way exactly. Men can accept Jesus as their Savior on their hospital bed while they are dying and be saved by God’s grace through faith without works. But most of us have to live out our faith (in being faithful to the Lord) to continue to gain access to God’s grace.

 

[ElieG12]

I never talk about SALVATION, but about what organized Christians should do according to the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Joel's prophecy had to do with baptism with the HS, which was fulfilled.

--Apostles laying hands upon another is not in the Bible called baptism with the HS,
--only the Lord would baptize with the HS (Mt 3:11) hence no man can administer baptism with the HS for the great commission has men administering water baptism.
--if HS baptism is the one baptism of Eph 4 that makes one a disciple, that saves, then that means those whom the Lord has not baptize with the HS are lost due to the Lord's culpability in failing to baptize them with the HS and the Lord is showing respecter of person with whom He does and does not baptize with the HS contrary to Acts 10:34-35.

Mt 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Law here refers to the OT law of Moses of which Joel was one of the prophets. If Joel's prophecies were not fulfilled by Christ then all that OT law is still in effect including the animal sacrifices. the purifications, etc, etc. Of course Christ did fulfill all the OT law taking it out of the way replacing it with His NT, Col 2:14-16; Eph 2:14-16). The word "till" being a time limiting word, that is, the OT would last TILL Christ took it out of the way by fulfilling it. So if has not been taken out of the way through fulfillment then it must still ALL be in effect.

So you believe there are no OT Scriptures talking about Christ’s Second Coming (i.e. Revelation 19)?
So you believe there is not future second coming of Jesus and Revelation 19 happened in the past?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My point is beliff is a work God gave to man to do contrary to those who think man is saved doing nothing, that is, saved by faith only.

Like I said…. One can be saved at one point in time or one moment in time without doing any work (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5) (Romans 11:6).
If this was not the case, then the words of Paul would contradict the words of Jesus and I just don’t see that as a possibility because God’s Word is always 100% true (i.e. every word of God). You cannot in good conscience read Paul and truly believe his words whole heartedly with your kind of belief. It just doesn’t work (even if he was referring to the works of the Laws of Moses). You do not understand that Paul was talking in context to how we are INITIALLY saved. This is what you fail to comprehend, my friend. How we were saved at one point in time does not equate with how we are saved after that point. For example: A person can be saved from a fire in a building in the past. But at a later point in time they can be saved in a different kind of way. This is what you are not getting.

 

[Illuminator]

In John 3:5:

We must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the Kingdom.

Being born again by the Spirit is obvious in the fact that we are changed by the Spirit on a radical level. Before I came to Christ, I was an atheist at one point in my life. But when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior in 1992, I felt a love, joy, and peace I had never known before. I was spiritually and radically changed by the Lord Jesus Christ. Being born again or becoming a son of God happens when we receive Christ or we truly believe properly in the name of Jesus for salvation (John 1:12).

I applaud your radical change.

While being born of water can be referring to being born of the washing of the Spirit, I take this to mean primarily as being born by the Word of God (i.e. Scripture).

John 3:5, Jesus doesn't say "...unless you be born of scripture and the spirit..."
Furthermore, "Word of God" is rarely, if ever, used to mean the written word alone. Use any bible search engine you like. Use quotation marks to narrow your search.

How so? Well, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). In the parable of the sower we learn that the seed is the Word of God (Luke 8:11).

You're absolutely correct. Notice Romans 10:17 doesn't say faith comes by reading, but by hearing. WE hear the whole Bible in an orderly 3-year cycle. More "Bible" is read out loud in a single Mass than in a month of Protestant services.

By another parable, we know that the sower of that seed is Jesus (Matthew 13:37). So Jesus sows God’s words for us to have eternal life. For Jesus says His words are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). Ephesians 5:25-27 basically says how Christ gave Himself for us so that He might sanctify us with the washing of “the WATER of the Word” so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy, and without blemish.

Ephesians 5:26 doesn't say "water of the word", it says "water with the word" which actually affirms Jesus "water AND spirit" in John 3:5.

This means the Word of God (the Bible) is to cleanse us in the Sanctification Process by the Spirit so that we may be holy in our conduct to the point of blamelessness before our Lord Jesus.

Sanctification doesn't come by reading the Bible, it comes by the way you live your life.

Peter says “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God,” (1 Peter 1:23).

I will clarify again with more details. "Word of God" :
52 Bible results for “"word of God" ” from Revised Standard Version. Bible Gateway
I can't find anywhere where the "Word of God" is used to mean the written word alone. Why don't you go through the list yourself and be the first to find one.

This is referring to the communicated Word of God like audible spoken words of God or Scripture. For the context supports this in the fact that we are told: “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:” (1 Peter 2:2). Meaning, you had a major radical spiritual change and or experience by the Bible itself alone. The Bible is no longer a dead book but it has come alive to you personally (Whereby you do not need other men to ultimately teach you - See: 1 John 2:27). By this birth by the Word, you realize that no other words but the Bible alone can satisfy or be ultimately trusted. In short, the Bible becomes your sole lifeline in spiritual guidance by the Lord GOD (the blessed Creator and Savior).

This may come as a surprise to you, but Catholics revere the Bible the same as we revere our Lord's body.

You are most likely deeply sucked into Catholicism. No offense, but if this is the case, then I see this type of situation as sort of like a drunkard who cannot see how his alcoholism is killing him. He is in too deep into his sin to think clearly or rationally. But with the Lord our God, nothing is impossible to break the chains of deception, sin, and or false religion (See also: 1 Thessalonians 5:7).

Your prejudice is VERY offensive. You are deeply sucked into anti-Catholicism. Probably by left overs from your atheist days.

While the Catholic Church may like to try and change the Scriptures, with an honest plain reading of the Bible we know: Idolatry has always been characterized as bowing down to statues and or kissing them (Which is what Catholics do). Yeah, I know of the Catholic’s ark excuse and it does not hold water. Then there is the praying to dead people (Mary and the saints) when prayer is only an honor giving to God alone. Nowhere do we see in the Bible this kind of unholy practice of praying to dead people with it being okay with God. Contacting the dead is necromancy. Catholics also make Mary to be some kind of co-redeemer when that is not what is clearly taught in God’s Word. Catholics even killed their own people for even having the Scriptures. Catholics even killed others like William Tyndale for translating the Bible into English. Then Catholics tried to kill King James and the KJB translation with a super bomb. There is no doubt that the King James Bible was the most poplar bible for hundreds of years that went out to the common man that the Catholics did not want to see happen. Why? Because of this…

I count 10 blatant lies in this one paragraph alone. I am prepared to discuss them all in a civilized manner, one at a time, but this shot gun tactic of yours doesn't work with me. And the Google god is wrong.

So before 1943, you would not even be allowed to study the Scriptures and reply back to me. You would just be a blind follower of whatever your leaders say.

Lie #11.

In other words, the Catholic agenda was always to take the Bible away from people. It’s what we see throughout history and even today. There are many unbiblical things and moral problems with the Catholic Church that I could write about for days, but this is not really the topic of this thread. Lord willing, and if this forum will allow it, I would like to create a thread on why the Catholic Church is unbiblical.

Lie #12 & 13.

While I love you in Jesus Christ, I abhor your religion, and I believe it is profane in the eyes of the one true God (violating tons of Scripture verses and attempting to re-write history to make them appear good when that is clearly not the case).

I abhor your misrepresentations, lies, and falsehoods, which this forum allows. Re-writing history? For once I would like to see anti-Catholics like you document your "histories" with primary and secondary sources, but you never do. I cite Protestant historians as often as possible, but even that is not accepted by anti-Catholics because they don't fit the anti-Catholic agenda.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I applaud your radical change.


John 3:5, Jesus doesn't say "...unless you be born of scripture and the spirit..."
Furthermore, "Word of God" is rarely, if ever, used to mean the written word alone. Use any bible search engine you like. Use quotation marks to narrow your search. You're absolutely correct. Notice Romans 10:17 doesn't say faith comes by reading, but by hearing. WE hear the whole Bible in an orderly 3-year cycle. More "Bible" is read out loud in a single Mass than in a month of Protestant services. Ephesians 5:26 doesn't say "water of the word", it says "water with the word" which actually affirms Jesus "water AND spirit" in John 3:5. Sanctification doesn't come by reading the Bible, it comes by the way you live your life. I will clarify again with more details. "Word of God" :
52 Bible results for “"word of God" ” from Revised Standard Version. Bible Gateway
I can't find anywhere where the "Word of God" is used to mean the written word alone. Why don't you go through the list yourself and be the first to find one.
This may come as a surprise to you, but Catholics revere the Bible the same as we revere our Lord's body.

Your prejudice is VERY offensive. You are deeply sucked into anti-Catholicism. Probably by left overs from your atheist days.

I count 10 blatant lies in this one paragraph alone. I am prepared to discuss them all in a civilized manner, one at a time, but this shot gun tactic of yours doesn't work with me.
Lie #11.
Lie #12 & 13.
I abhor your misrepresentations, lies, and falsehoods, which this forum allows. Re-writing history? For once I would like to see anti-Catholics like you document your "histories" with primary and secondary sources, but you never do. I cite Protestant historians as often as possible, but even that is not accepted by anti-Catholics because they don't fit the anti-Catholic agenda.

I am for the Bible. So this ultimately leads to the narrow road viewpoint that is not personal by any means.

Also, I cannot convince you.
Only God and His Word can do that.

 

[Illuminator]

I am for the Bible. So this ultimately leads to the narrow road viewpoint that is not personal by any means.

Also, I cannot convince you.
Only God and His Word can do that.

Only God can heal your deep seated prejudice.

Rodney Stark is NOT a Catholic, so you can't complain of doctrinal bias. read a brief review here

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Only God can heal your deep seated prejudice.

Rodney Stark is NOT a Catholic, so you can't complain of doctrinal bias. read a review here

Not interested. Be patient. I will in time refute the Catholic Church here (Lord willing).

 

[Enoch111]

Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

No. That is simply false doctrine.

 

[Enoch111]

Catholics even have told me that I cannot understand Scripture. They said I need a Catholic priest to help me to understand it.

This is not new. The RCC has held this belief ever since they invented a false human priesthood.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No. That is simply false doctrine.

Yes, I once believed Spirit baptism replaced water baptism (Based on circumstantial Scriptural evidence); But after looking at what the Bible says clearly, I have changed my viewpoint on this.
Spirit baptism has not replaced water baptism.
Christians must be water baptized as a part of living out their faith.
The Bible does not teach that water baptism in the name of Jesus is condemned.
It actually teaches that we should partake of water baptism in Jesus’ name.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is not new. The RCC has held this belief ever since they invented a false human priesthood.

It’s why before 1943 the Roman Catholic Church did not allow their own people to study the Scriptures.

Italy was once an ally of Germany in 1940 (Note: You can see photos of Hitler with Catholic priests).

In 1943: Italy turned against their German friends due the oppression they experienced themselves by the Nazi party. In other words, I believe that it is possible that the oppression by the Germans could have helped the Catholic Church to see that they were oppressing their own people by not allowing them to read and study the Bible. But some (not all) in the Catholic Church I have talked with still have this mentality that Christians should not read or study the Bible without the aid of a Catholic priest. But 2 Timothy 2:15 says study to show yourselves approved unto God a work man that need not be ashamed.

 

[Illuminator]

↑
Catholics even have told me that I cannot understand Scripture. They said I need a Catholic priest to help me to understand it.

Hearsay and gossip is not Catholic teaching. Priests spend 4-7 years in education and spiritual formation before ordination, they generally are qualified to teach and are expected to know more that the average layman. I've never heard a priest say the average Catholic can't understand scripture, what Catholics mean is they cannot interpret scripture to mean the opposite of what it says or go running off inventing nonsense.

So that takes care of use of different translations. Nor do Catholics have to interpret every verse of the Bible according to some dogmatic proclamation of the Church. This is another ridiculous (and highly annoying) myth that we hear all the time. Indeed, the orthodox, faithful Catholic must interpret doctrines he derives from Scripture in accordance with the Church and tradition, but so what?

Every Protestant does the same thing within their own denominational tradition. No five-point Calvinist can find a verse in the Bible which proves apostasy or falling away, or one that teaches God’s desire for universal, rather than limited atonement (and there are many such passages). He can’t deny total depravity in any text, or irresistible grace. We all have orthodox and dogmatic boundaries that we abide by. The Catholic exegete is bound by very little, and has virtually as much freedom of inquiry as the Protestant exegete.
read more here​

This is not new. The RCC has held this belief ever since they invented a false human priesthood.

Jesus instituted the priesthood at the Washing of the Feet.

Lev. 16:23-24

The High Priest was constrained by the Law to wash himself in water before making the atoning sacrifice, and it is interesting to note the order:

• he takes off his garments,
• performs the washing ritual,
• puts the garments back on again,
• then makes the sacrifice.

In St. John's narrative, (John 13) Our Lord follows this exact order:

• He takes off His garments (vs. 4),
• performs the washing ritual (vv. 5-11),
• puts the garments back on (v. 12),
• and then goes on to endure His Passion.

It is odd that St. John would have included the details of Jesus taking off His garments and putting them back on again, if he did not have Leviticus 16 in the back of his mind.

read more here

 

[LoveofTruth]

Acts 2 with the Apostles and Acts 10 with the Gentiles are the only 2 places in the Bible where the Lord baptized men with the HS.

Not true every instance where I posted shows they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. It even says so in the text

"8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,"(Acts 8:14-18 KJV)

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

They prayed for them to the Lord and it is ultimately the Lord that gives the Holy Ghost, not men. Also Jesus said

11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"(Luke 11:9-13 KJV)

Water baptism therefore can only be the one baptism of Eph 4:5 that is in effect today, water baptism of the great commission administered by men, commanded. saves,

I never said the baptism with the Holy Ghost is the one baptism that saves. Nor is the
baptism with water (one of the many diverse washing of Hebrews 9) the saving baptism is being baptized into Jesus Christ by the Spirit.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Apostles, and only the Apostles, had the ability to lay hands upon another person and pass to that person an apostolic (2 Cor 12:12) miraculous gift.

Np, we read in scripture that men can simply seek the spiritual gifts and ask God who gives to all who ask. Also we read about others laying hands on people who are not only apostles.

consider your correction,

"Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery."1 Timothy 4:11)

The "presbytery" is a group of elders. So you are not accurate here.

Also Paul simply tells believers to seek for the gifts and God will give them. He didn't say he had to personally lay hands on them. And yes there are apostles and prophets today. They were given after Christ rose again (Ephesians 4, etc) We read of other apostles besides the 123 and prophets in the New Testament.

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."(1 Cor 14:1 KJV)

"

The Apostles did not lay hands upon all Christians, hence all Christians did not possess a miraculous gift, as you point out some had no gift at all, (1 Cor 12:29-31).

and we read of how they get such gifts which are given to every man

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal....But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." (1 Cor 12:7, 11 KJV)

Matt 3:11 only the Lord would baptize with the HS.

On Pentecost the believers were in Christ before the Holy Ghost was given to all of them. Jesus was already in them and he ( in them ) can baptize them with the Holy Ghost. So anyone who has Jesus Christ in them can be baptized with the Holy Ghost. We see the Spirit coming upon some by laying on of hands, by all praying and sitting in a place. By desiring and asking God for the Holy Spirit. By the presbytery, (or group of elders praying and laying hands on some,)

After the Apostles died, no one was left to pass on miraculous gifts and when the last person died who possessed an Apostolic gift, then miracles ceased

No where do we read such things in scripture. The Spirit of God gives gifts severally as He will and all who ask receive.

Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."


Notice here no laying on of hands on them. Just prayer and asking.

God will find ways to give the power to whose who do his will. The Holy Ghost is still given to those who obey God in faith.

"Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

Nowhere do we read this ceasing. On fact there is no verse that you can show where the gifts will cease until Christ comes back. I eagerly wait for such verses to examine if you have them. I'm surprised you haven't tried to use the Corinthian verse about c easing gifts yet. This does not say the gifts will cease now or when the scriptures are complete etc as some try to say. I can prove this if you want to discuss that.

...no one today has been given an Apostolic gift for no obviously no Apostle is alive today

There are also apostles after Christ rose. We see men like Paul Barnabas,

"Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,"

Before Barnabas was an apostle in Acts 13 we read that he was either a prophet or teacher Acts 13.

Timotheous and Silvanus being apostles after Christ rose.

1 Th 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."

We read of these gifts given to the church (including prophets which we see did exist in Acts 13 and 1 Cor 14 etc.)

"4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
...4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;...4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

 

[LoveofTruth]

You posted:
"All believers obey the gospel by daily dying with Christ and being buried with him and rising with him to walk in the Spirit in the newness of life..."

Yet 2 Thess 1:8 is NOT speaking about believers but speaks about LOST UNBELIEVERS who are lost and the REASON they are lost for they have "OBEYED NOT" the gospel of Christ.

what?

Obviously unbelievers and those who are not in Christ did not obey the gospel. They do not die with Christ be burried or risen with him daily. They do not pick up their cross daily etc. OI am not talking about men in the flesh or any man outside of Christ obeying anythings to be saved. When we repent and believe the gospel Christ dwells in our heart by faith and then God works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work. The works frlow from love and faith. The victory that overcomes the world is our faith 1 John 5,

consider

"5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

Because only through faith can we enter into the grace which we stand and by continual faith can we be saved 1 Cor 15:1-4) if we keep in memory. When Christ is in us we can DO all things. through Christ. Without Jesus we can do nothing. The new man in Christ can do all things. These works flow from inward to manifest the life of Christ daily as we walk in the spirit and not in the flesh and as we yield to the spirit and not the flesh.But the works we do flow from the spirit. They are fruits of the spirit, such as love mercy compassion, truth joy etc. We express such things many ways. It is not a ceremonial type or shadow of the OT not a diverse washing or carnal ordinance. These cannot make us clean as pertaining to the conscience.

So water baptism of John from the OT is not the saving baptism into Christ. Many jews follow John and OT law and the Old Covenant for a long tme in Acts. To miss this and the Jew and gentile issue is to not see the saving baptism into Christ and to shift to the outward carnal dead works that do not save.

To add water baptism to the gospel males it another gospel. We see in 1 Cor 1 that Paul said Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel. He shows clearly there that water baptism is not part of the gospel. He even defines in the same book what the gospel is 1 Cor 15:1-4. and he sows what the saving one baptism is for all believers in 1 Cor 12:13. Which I see as being baptized into Christ or into one body of Christ by the Spirit. This i see as not the Holy Ghost baptism specifically, though the Holy Ghost is given to those who ae in Jesus Christ for Jesus will baptize them with the Holy Ghost. But first men must be in Christ to have the baptism. Yes we do read of men who are also filled with the Spirit even though they have been baptized with the Holy host and this is another discussion.

n the great commission, Christ commanded the disciples to go, preach the gospel, baptizing them thereby making "gospel" synonymous with "baptizing". As the point is made above, how could Christ command the "gospel" to be preached but something else to be obeyed? That means water baptism must be that FORM of the gospel that is to be obeyed. Meaning those who have not obeyed the gospel have not been water baptized. Hence when the true gospel is preached, that means water baptism must also be taught since it is "that form" of the gospel/doctrine of Christ.

we see Peter speaking words , preaching and as he spoke the word they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. This teaching all nations baptizing them, can apply somewhat here. The teaching immerses them into the knowledge of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and as they hear and believe the name Jesus is believed and his work and when they have faith Christ dwells in their heart and he will baptize them with the Holy Ghost. But in Cornelius case I see he was already a believer before Peter even met him and Christ was already in him. He need to hear the full gospel and the name Jesus to receive the Holy Ghost. He was saved (complete) by such a faith.

consider,

"10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."

 

[LoveofTruth]

My point is beliff is a work God gave to man to do contrary to those who think man is saved doing nothing, that is, saved by faith only.

"Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

"Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

"Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Bible teaches God draws men but not in some mysterious, unknown miraculous way apart from the word of God.

The Light of Christ that shines in the heart is a mysterious.

"John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them."

John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

There is also mystery of the word sown in mens hearts as a seed. This is Christ in men and those who believe the seed goes into the heart and gives life, born again by the word of God. Jesus spoke the parable of the seed sown in the heart, the word of God. The word is spiritual. The pharisees were questioned by Jesus why they did not understand his speech, even because they could not hear his word.

The word is nigh unto all and close, working in them if they hear.

Christianity is a deeply spiritual faith in the inward reality. This inward working and mystery that hath been hid from ages ( Christ in you the hope ) has been there all along. The kingdom of God is within. But again these are deeply spiritual things and hard to speak of at times. Scripture has alot to show and prove of this/

But Jesus said some are outwardly righteous or appear so but inwardly full of dead mens bones and all uncleanness and outwardly appear righteous but inwardly lost from God.

"Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."