Do you believe the lie?

[Zao is life]

Because I love the truth. I always have. It's why I became a Christian, I realized this was the truth.

And I'm really hoping you realize that I'm not so much making assertions as I am more pointing to what is written. As long as you are reading my posts, I have the opportunity to share with you truths that have impacted my life beyond description.

Much love!

But you love YOUR truth in this respect. Not THE truth.

Does Jesus know YOUR truth to be HIS truth?

Jesus knows me as someone who has been saved by His blood through faith in Him and in His blood and His righteousness?

Does Jesus know you as someone who has been saved by His blood through faith in Him and in His blood and His righteousness?

You need to give an answer.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm also hoping that you will set aside for the moment this passage, and look at some of these others also. It's all got to harmonize. If we don't see the harmony, we need to revisist the passages to see where we misunderstand.

This is true for me as for everyone. I demand it of myself. My understand must match the wording, must match the grammar, must match the context, and must harmonize fully with all relevant passages. And my net is very wide.

Much love!

You have denied the truth of Christ's warning both when He Himself warned what will happen to those who do not continue to abide in the Vine, and ensured His doctrine was repeated through the author to the Hebrews, among other authors and verses in the New Testament.

There are two witnesses that you refuse to hear His voice and deny His doctrine but choose YOUR truth above His.

There is no need for me to continue with this discussion with you unless your eyes open and you repent - because in some of your posts you are coming very close to IMPLYING that the one who disagrees with you "cannot know Him or be known by Him" and you need to give an answer to my previous question.

Then once you have given an answer, I still will not continue this discussion with you because you have provided two witnesses against yourself that you do not accept the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior when YOUR truth is not what He said or what His apostles said.

This debate about this issue is OVER between me and you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are another one who doesn’t read carefully….nor apparently do you refer to Interlinear translations for reference….you can learn a lot by checking these with a good concordance…..so many resources are available…there is no excuse for ignorance.

e.g. If you know anything about Greek, you will know that there is no upper or lower case….and no punctuation…..so all the English translators had to add them. Think about that.…because the “spirit“ originally had no “case”.
And spirits have no gender, so calling the Paraclete (helper) “he” has to do with Greek grammar, (masculine gender) not a indication that the Holy Spirit is a person.

The “spirit of the truth” had to come from the Father….why? If Jesus was God, couldn’t it come from him?

You getting all bent out of shape over a lower case “s” says it all about you as well. As they say…”a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.

I use a few different translations, usually those that are more commonly used on the site.…because when I show people from their own translations that they have mistranslated verses, it upsets them because they have nothing to throw back at me….I rarely use the NWT because the mistranslations in the commonly used translations are so obvious.

You are brainwashed, so only the Holy Spirit who you deny can help you understand. I pray that He will.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's astonishing what can emerge from the minds of men....often packaged in contradictions that, in the end, amount to little more than an unknowable mystery.

Yes, you seem to be a good example of that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some empathy is needed here, Jane. They've been taught extra-biblical ideas that they feel obligated to apply to the Word of God. In truth, this is something many denominations have struggled with to some extent or another. However, Christendom as a whole has been significantly misled, particularly when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity. In my experience maybe 1 person out of 10,000 Christians can open their minds enough to see the wisdom you are sharing. When the Lord returns these matters will all be dealt with.

Yes, all of the English translators must be wrong, according to you. You know more than all of them somehow. I hope you don't use any of the English translations because you obviously do not believe they are trustworthy. So, what is your source for understanding scripture? Are you fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?

 

[marks]

Does Jesus know you?

He knows me.

@marks

You need to give an answer.

You decide.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This debate about this issue is OVER between me and you.

Go with God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

because in some of your posts you are coming very close to IMPLYING that the one who disagrees with you "cannot know Him or be known by Him"

No, this is not what I'm saying.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are two witnesses that you refuse to hear His voice and deny His doctrine but choose YOUR truth above His.

Or, it's just that two brothers have different understandings of some Scriptures, and may even yet bring blessing to the other, if we continue in the Spirit of Christ.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Interesting, you didnt comment on "God is the one who gives life to all things” (1 Tim 6:13)...including the Lord Jesus Christ

Was it that you were afraid to look, in case the Word taught you something different? or were you more focused on sharing what you already knew?

God gave life to Jesus's humanity. The Word was God and the Word became flesh (John 1). Jesus is both God and man at the same time. You are deceived. Meanwhile, I look forward to the blessed hope, the appearing of my Great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

 

[marks]

But you love YOUR truth in this respect. Not THE truth.

You actually don't have the knowledge of me to say this. Please don't think I'm taking offense, this doesn't bother me on a personal level. But this is shutting a door, that I'm thinking shouldn't be shut.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hebrews 10:9-14 KJV
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11) And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Vs 10, "are sanctified", Perfect Tense, Passive Voice. Passive Voice refers to the direction of the action, showing we don't do this, it's done to us. Perfect Tense refers to the time and impact of the action, that it renders a continuing result, having been done, it remains done.

Vs 14, "hath perfected" again, Perfect Tense, done, and remains done.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Actually, immortality was not based on that, it depended on whether they ate from the tree of life. Else why would it be written:

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Everlasting life would be supplied if they ate from the tree of life, even having eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Much love!

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15

Jesus IS the tree of life:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15

 

[Zao is life]

Or, it's just that two brothers have different understandings of some Scriptures, and may even yet bring blessing to the other, if we continue in the Spirit of Christ.

Much love!

Then do so - because asking me if I believe scriptures that talk about seeing Christ as He is if we are IN HIM when He comes is not acdting like a brother.

Your subtle actions / accusations are not brotherly, Mark.

 

[marks]

Your subtle actions / accusations are not brotherly, Mark.

I think you misunderstand me. I'll try to be more clear.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

You actually don't have the knowledge of me to say this. Please don't think I'm taking offense, this doesn't bother me on a personal level. But this is shutting a door, that I'm thinking shouldn't be shut.

Much love!

The discussion cannot continue while you continue with those two witnesses telling how you will not hear the Voice of Christ.

 

[marks]

Then do so - because asking me if I believe scriptures that talk about seeing Christ as He is if we are IN HIM when He comes is not acdting like a brother.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

I'm not seeing the bolded part in this passage.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I'm not seeing it here either.

For myself, I endeavor to not add qualifiers when there are not qualifiers included in the text. The question of whether or not someone is "abiding in Christ when He comes" isn't given in these verse, but other qualifiers are. These are, If you be raised with Christ, and, if you are a son of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The discussion cannot continue while you continue with those two witnesses telling how you will not hear the Voice of Christ.

Do you see how you are actually doing what you are saying I do?

You are the one saying that I don't hear God, that I refuse to hear God, that I won't believe the Bible, things like that. Things that I'm not saying to you.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Actually, immortality was not based on that, it depended on whether they ate from the tree of life. Else why would it be written:

Genesis 3:22 KJV
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Everlasting life would be supplied if they ate from the tree of life.

Much love!

Tree of Life

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15

 

[marks]

Tree of Life

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15

You continue to include in your interpretation that "a man abide not in me" actually means, "a man stops abiding in me", and use that instead of the actual statement given.

I have too much love for the truth to do that. I must remain with "if a man not abide in me", which does not address whether or not such a man previously did.

Given the fact that this point is not specifically addressed by this passage, it is then an ambiguous passage, that is, could be interpretted in more than one way, or applied in more than one way. I think we are interpretting the passage the same, and are applying it differently.

That is, I apply it to those who never did, while you apply it to those who do, and may cease to do so.

Parallel passages and contextually relevant passages often supply the needed information by which we can determine which is actually meant.

I'm aware of a number of passages that would be false on their face if one who is regenerated ceases to be so, ceasing to remain in Christ. And again, I'm constrained by the truth, I cannot simply prefer one interpretation over another, I require the Scriptures to show the meaning,

And in every case, I find harmony throughout, as the regenerate are never lost, but remain with Christ.

Much love!