Do you believe the lie?

[marks]

We're already stuck on your misinterpretation of the scriptures we have already discussed - two passages that already you have shown that you interpret in such a way as to ensure it complies with your OSAS premise.

So, sorry, but no more going round in circles.

Man, you really think I play mind games like that?

OK.

When your arguments leave the Scriptures, and focus on me, you've convinced me, we're done, and you have nothing more to add on this topic. I hope you will consider the things I've said.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you believe this is true exactly as written? I do. What it says, clear, plain, is that, we are now the sons of God, and we know that when Jesus appears we will be like Him.

Do you know that? Is this true? Everyone who has this hope (expectation based on faith) purifies themself. Do you have this hope?

For myself, I implicitly believe the Bible, and I implicitly believe this passage, and I have this hope. Do you?

Much love!

@marks Corrected this because of the faulty English I used:

You have already shown me that you do not believe that what Jesus said about the branch not abiding in the Vine and what Hebrews says about turning back after having been saved, is true exactly as is written.

So why do you ask me "if I believe scripture is true exactly as written"?

I already told you that Christ will not cut off a branch in Him that is alive. But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

Adam was a created human being, just like us. He is our first father according to the flesh. The choice he made though he was alive in the Word of God after God had breathed eternal life into him (the choice which caused his death), is proof of the fact that ALL his descendants are JUST AS CAPABLE AS our first father was of doing the same thing.

But you cannot see what scripture is teaching you because you begin interpreting scripture with a premise - and that premise is OSAS.

So because you have already shown in this thread that you do not believe that what Jesus said about the branch not abiding in the Vine and what Hebrews says about turning back after having been saved, is not true exactly as is written, don't ask me to explain to you what I have already explained to you.

I will repeat ONE LAST TIME: Christ will not cut off a branch in Him that is alive. But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2).

 

[marks]

after God had breathed eternal life into him

God breathed life into Adam, not eternal life. We see that in that God denied Adam the Tree of Life lest he live forever.

We need to pay attention to all these little details. And when we find that we cannot account for the exact saying of a passage, we need to relook at our own views. This has served me very well over the years as I've examined and considered the sayings of Scripture. I always use the plain to interpret the amgibuous, and always seek a full harmony using the exact wording.

But I'm not here to give a self-defense, I'm here to share the Word.

But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

Who has the choice to unbirth themself?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Deception and dishonesty, often cloaked in the guise of rational argument, have infiltrated our discourse, eroding trust and hindering progress on critical issues. This insidious problem, known as intellectual dishonesty, has become a pervasive force in our society, affecting everything from personal relationships to global policy decisions. As we navigate an increasingly complex world, the ability to recognize and combat deceptive reasoning has become more crucial than ever.


Imagine a world where every conversation, debate, or discussion is a minefield of hidden agendas and twisted truths. It’s not far from reality, is it? We’ve all been there – caught in the crossfire of a heated argument, only to realize later that the other person was using sneaky tactics to win, rather than seeking genuine understanding. It’s frustrating, it’s exhausting, and it’s downright dangerous when it comes to making important decisions that affect our lives and the lives of others.


But what exactly is intellectual dishonesty? At its core, it’s the deliberate manipulation or misrepresentation of facts, ideas, or arguments to support a predetermined conclusion or to avoid challenging one’s own beliefs. It’s the antithesis of intellectual integrity, which demands rigorous honesty and a commitment to truth-seeking in our thinking and discourse.

Intellectual Dishonesty: Recognizing and Combating Deceptive Reasoning

Deception and dishonesty, often cloaked in the guise of rational argument, have infiltrated our discourse, eroding trust and hindering progress on

neurolaunch.com

 

[marks]

So why do you ask me "if I believe scripture is true exactly as written"?

I'm challenging you to do just that.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you know this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

Adam died, and humanity died with him. In the new covenant, God offers to restore us to life, and we can accept or reject.

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 10:27-30 KJV
27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30) I and my Father are one.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm challenging you to do just that.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you know this?

Much love!

Let's leave that between the individual and Christ our Savior, shall we? Because the reply is the same as Post #249

 

[Zao is life]

John 10:27-30 KJV
27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30) I and my Father are one.

Part of hearing his voice is to believe Him when He says that the branch that does not abide in Him will wither and die and be cast forth as a branch.

 

[Zao is life]

So why do you ask me "if I believe scripture is true exactly as written"?

I'm challenging you to do just that.

But you don't do just that. So why do you ask me to do just that?

 

[marks]

Let's leave that between the individual and Christ our Savior, shall we?

You need not give an answer.

I myself know this, because I believe the Scriptures, and I find the wisdom to be true, that this does in fact lead me to purify myself, having the end in view. There is no impediment to holy living aside from overcoming the flesh. Jesus will completely perform this then. So I can do what I can know, I know I can.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

He has the power to subdue all things to Himself, including me. And He will in fact do this, again, this fact - FACT - inspires me to submit myself under the mighty hand of God, to be conformed even now, spiritually.

All enemies, all impediments - this is the important part - will be defeated by Jesus, in that day. This is the same Jesus Who lives in me now. What He can do then, what He will do then in fullness, He is working in me now, with the same power.

This isn't some stand alone doctrine, but affects the fabric of our daily lives. My confidence is in Him, not myself, to somehow "keep me saved" or however you want to say it. I trust Jesus. And this is the work He is doing.

Plainly stated Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But you don't do just that. So why do you ask me to do just that?

I maintain that I do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Part of hearing his voice is to believe Him when He says that the branch that does not abide in Him will wither and die and be cast forth as a branch.

IF you are His sheep. His sheep hear His voice. He gives them eternal life. They will never perish.

Do you believe the exact saying of this passage? I do.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Deception and dishonesty, often cloaked in the guise of rational argument, have infiltrated our discourse, eroding trust and hindering progress on critical issues. This insidious problem, known as intellectual dishonesty, has become a pervasive force in our society, affecting everything from personal relationships to global policy decisions. As we navigate an increasingly complex world, the ability to recognize and combat deceptive reasoning has become more crucial than ever.


Imagine a world where every conversation, debate, or discussion is a minefield of hidden agendas and twisted truths. It’s not far from reality, is it? We’ve all been there – caught in the crossfire of a heated argument, only to realize later that the other person was using sneaky tactics to win, rather than seeking genuine understanding. It’s frustrating, it’s exhausting, and it’s downright dangerous when it comes to making important decisions that affect our lives and the lives of others.


But what exactly is intellectual dishonesty? At its core, it’s the deliberate manipulation or misrepresentation of facts, ideas, or arguments to support a predetermined conclusion or to avoid challenging one’s own beliefs. It’s the antithesis of intellectual integrity, which demands rigorous honesty and a commitment to truth-seeking in our thinking and discourse.

Intellectual Dishonesty: Recognizing and Combating Deceptive Reasoning

Deception and dishonesty, often cloaked in the guise of rational argument, have infiltrated our discourse, eroding trust and hindering progress on

neurolaunch.com

So you are saying that for example people who do not hear his voice when Jesus says that the one who does not abide in the Vine will with and die and be cast out,

are all saying so out of intellectual dishonesty and this has come about as a result of "deception and dishonesty, often cloaked in the guise of rational argument, have infiltrated our discourse, eroding trust and hindering progress on critical issues."

Why are you so determined when you seem to be not hearing the voice of Christ to insist that the person who disagrees with what you are saying is "wrong" and you are "right"?

Why are you so determined to go round in circles and make false assertions instead of just agreeing to disagree and leaving it at that?

 

[Zao is life]

IF you are His sheep. His sheep hear His voice. He gives them eternal life. They will never perish.

Do you believe the exact saying of this passage? I do.

Much love!

How many times have I told you that He will never boot the sheep out of the Vine who hear His voice and abide in the Vine but He says very clearly that the one who fails to continue to abide in the Vine (not by Christ's choice) will wither and die and be cast out and be burned?

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

I've posted it seven times for you again. If you read it seven times you will have nothing to worry about if you continue to hear His voice and abide in the Vine. But if you fail to continue to abide in the Vine you have something to be concerned about - especially because you only hear the part of His voice that you choose to hear, but quite clearly change the part you refuse to hear.

 

[marks]

I am the Vine. First Person, the speaker.

You are the branches. Second person, the one spoken to.

If a man abide not in me. Third person, a separate party, not being addressed.

John 15:2-6 KJV
2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Much love!

 

[marks]

are all saying so out of intellectual dishonesty

No, I've not said that, nor is it what I think.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why are you so determined to go round in circles and make false assertions instead of just agreeing to disagree and leaving it at that?

Because I love the truth. I always have. It's why I became a Christian, I realized this was the truth.

And I'm really hoping you realize that I'm not so much making assertions as I am more pointing to what is written. As long as you are reading my posts, I have the opportunity to share with you truths that have impacted my life beyond description.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

I'm challenging you to do just that.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you know this?

Much love!

@marks Corrected this because of the faulty English I used:

You have already shown me that you do not believe that what Jesus said about the branch not abiding in the Vine and what Hebrews says about turning back after having been saved, is true exactly as is written.

So why do you ask me "if I believe scripture is true exactly as written"?

I already told you that Christ will not cut off a branch in Him that is alive. But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

Adam was a created human being, just like us. He is our first father according to the flesh. The choice he made though he was alive in the Word of God after God had breathed eternal life into him (the choice which caused his death), is proof of the fact that ALL his descendants are JUST AS CAPABLE AS our first father was of doing the same thing.

But you cannot see what scripture is teaching you because you begin interpreting scripture with a premise - and that premise is OSAS.

So because you have already shown in this thread that you do not believe that what Jesus said about the branch not abiding in the Vine and what Hebrews says about turning back after having been saved, is not true exactly as is written, don't ask me to explain to you what I have already explained to you.

I will repeat ONE LAST TIME: Christ will not cut off a branch in Him that is alive. But every human being since Adam has been given the ability to choose between life and death.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2).

You need not give an answer.

I myself know this, because I believe the Scriptures, and I find the wisdom to be true, that this does in fact lead me to purify myself, having the end in view. There is no impediment to holy living aside from overcoming the flesh. Jesus will completely perform this then. So I can do what I can know, I know I can.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

He has the power to subdue all things to Himself, including me. And He will in fact do this, again, this fact - FACT - inspires me to submit myself under the mighty hand of God, to be conformed even now, spiritually.

All enemies, all impediments - this is the important part - will be defeated by Jesus, in that day. This is the same Jesus Who lives in me now. What He can do then, what He will do then in fullness, He is working in me now, with the same power.

This isn't some stand alone doctrine, but affects the fabric of our daily lives. My confidence is in Him, not myself, to somehow "keep me saved" or however you want to say it. I trust Jesus. And this is the work He is doing.

Plainly stated Scripture.

Much love!

Does Jesus know you?

He knows me.

@marks

You need to give an answer.

 

[marks]

So you are saying that for example people who do not hear his voice when Jesus says that the one who does not abide in the Vone will with and die and be cast out,

I'm also hoping that you will set aside for the moment this passage, and look at some of these others also. It's all got to harmonize. If we don't see the harmony, we need to revisist the passages to see where we misunderstand.

This is true for me as for everyone. I demand it of myself. My understand must match the wording, must match the grammar, must match the context, and must harmonize fully with all relevant passages. And my net is very wide.

Much love!