You’ve both received several corrections, so responses like this are to be expected. In your case, simply acknowledging the misrepresentation of 1 Timothy 6:15–16 would have allowed us to move forward and discuss your reference from John, which ironically held the answer to 1 Tim 6:16. Careful reading is what is required.
Do you believe the lie?
- Thread starter Zao is life
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No food for the trolls today, sorry. LOL. You're incapable of moving forward with any part of scripture because you made it clear in your previous post that you do not believe scripture and know better than this generation plus previous generations of billions of saints.
LOL! Don't worry about me!
I get that a lot. Mostly when I point out something someone has said on a personal level, and then the finger swings around to me, "You're taking offense!" so they can wipe away my comments as some supposed emotionalism. Whatever. It's a big deflection, and it's used a lot.
We can keep to the topic. Or you can end your participation, and you don't even need to make it look like you are "protecting my tender sensitivities". Thanks for my morning smile over that one!
Much love!
Scripture for this one also please. It's not in there actually, just like the other, so you won't be able to show this.
Much love!
Scripture please.
You said they were baptized into the Lord. Please show me that in the Scriptures, without moving the goalpost.
Thank you!
Much love!
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It's clear that you have a reading comprehension problem. I did not say there are any errors in the original manuscripts. There are not.You’ve brought it up a couple of times, and I understand that some people believe the entire Bible is infallible, with every word directly written by God without error. But from your responses, it’s clear you don’t hold that view.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Jesus didn't baptize. The disciples would have been baptized into John's baptism of repentance. @Hiddenthings is attempting to show they were baptized into Christ, that is, saved as we are, and then Judas being lost, that would "prove" you can lose salvation, in the sense of having been reborn, then to become unreborn.
However, none were baptized into Christ prior to Christ's death and resurrection.
First he said they were baptized into the Lord. Then when I questioned that, he changed it to say, You don't think they were baptized?
This is just a ploy to make his assertion without foundation. When I question it, he changes it.
Much love!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You have been personally offended many times in the past during discussions. You know that, right? So, that's what I was thinking about.
It's as if you forgot all the times you have gotten upset in the past over perceived personal insults. I guess you have changed then? Good to know. But, with that said, I have nothing to add to the many things I've already said about this. But, if you have anything new related to the topic that we didn't already discuss, feel free to share it.
Again, you give me a laugh. Don't turn things into what they are not.
It's projected emotionalism, a deflection. Someone telling me I'm taking offense doesn't make it so. I've seen this over the years.
Someone says something personal, negative, baseless, off topic, maybe to me, maybe to someone else. Often times when I point that out, the person doesn't want to consider whether they've been out of line, or just off topic. So the reply is, You're getting all offended, that's the problem!
But it's just another baseless personal comment. For myself, I always prefer to improve my behavior if I see it could be improved. Many people seem to prefer to defend their bad behavior, and to cast attention elsewhere, lest they find they are actually in the wrong.
My interest is in communicating information concerning the Bible, and the "personalities games" detract heavily from that.
What's it that they say? You do you, and let me do me?
All what times?
Much love!
No I actually think it's more like you think that you can send someone on a guilt trip so that the person is too cautious to disagree with what you are saying in case you become offended. I don't see that as good behavior and I'm not surprised I'm reading this conversation between yourself and @Spiritual Israelite as I get the same from you.
Like saying "I believe this because I love the truth", and repeating it enough times to make it obvious that you know perfectly well that statements like that are implying that anyone who disagrees with you does so because he apparently doesn't love the truth or doesn't love the truth enough.
And then when finally it's pointed out to you, you take offense.
At last. I tried to stop it when I first noticed we were not going to agree and made it obvious and repeatedly said we should end the discussion but you insisted on continuing and doubling-down with your arguments saying that the reason you say what you say is because you love the truth.
I asked if you believe that Christ Jesus is God and the source of life because as I said I always assumed that's what you believe, and that you believe in the Trinity, because JW's use the argument about "we have the truth", "we know the truth", "we love the truth" frequently like you were doing, and that it implies that the person who disagrees does not have the truth or love the truth.
You responded with the above but have not replied to the simple question about whether or not you believe that Jesus is God who became flesh, and is the source of eternal life, having eternal life in Himself (which only God has in Himself).
So I know why I should ask you first to answer the question each time you respond to my posts in future, before I respond. Maybe if I ask often enough I'll finally get a reply.
Self control is how you stop. You have the choice to reply or not. If you want to reply, do so. If you don't want to, then don't.
As you've continued to make all your personal comments, I'm just not interested in your conversation any longer. So long as I felt we had the possibility of a fruitful conversation I've been happy to continue. But it has become clearly unfruitful, meaning it's just not going to be beneficial for either of us. So why continue?
Now, you can continue to claim I'm all in a tizzy or whatever, these things are up to you. Or you could just accept what I'm telling you about myself. Projected emotionalism seems to be a common thing. What I'm feeling right now is a combination of sad and amused.
Sometimes I wonder why I persist in this, metacommunication, talking about talking, when virtually no one takes it to heart. Hope springs eternal, as they say!
Much love!
PS95
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry , but that its just a tad of a convoluted reply to a simple yes or no question.
A bit of my background- I was raised in a JW family, so the concept of a trinity was taught as pure evil, antichrist, and that those who believe it are flat out satanic. I was horrified and terrified at the mere thought of what was called a pagan induced demonic teaching. By the time I was in my 30's it was so engrained in me, that I could not even enter into a church for a funeral and especially if they had a cross anywhere, without feeling rather ill. After all, the demons were there.
So, you are not talking with someone who is a minor leaguer in your hatred for the teaching. Been there done that. I had to humble myself and lose myself and ask my Heavenly Father for His truth. I am not taught by any man or creed. I can guarantee you that!
I have asked the same question that I asked you of several Uni's and all have said, NO.
The straightforwardness of John's prologue is disregarded as some sort of a trick that must be exposed for both JWs and Uni's. Both groups deny what is plainly being said. It's a big translator conspiracy! So let's just cut to the chase- John1:1, 1:14
For the sake of clarity- I'm asking for a simple yes or a no. That's all. Simple just as John's prologue is simple. So please let's not waste each other's time. A yes or no will do and is all I ask of you. Two verses. You may even change the "Word was God" to divine for all I care. I've been taught "a god" all of my life. It makes no difference to me since context is all that is needed for truth and the Good Lord always brings true light on a matter that never changes.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God...
..And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
The Word of God is mentioned 4x in those 2 verses- Is it your belief that those 4 mentions are speaking about the Lord Jesus who became flesh or not?
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
John 3:22-26
After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized (for John had not yet been put in prison). Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.”
PS95
Well-Known Member
@Zao is life @Spiritual Israelite @marks
I hope you guys don't mind me butting in here. I have to say it truly breaks my heart when I see believers treat each other this way. Our Lord suffered so much for us on that cross, and what He asks is that we treat others the way we want to be treated and LOVE one another. Is not obedience to the Lord's command worth much?
False teachers- are those such as JWs, SDA etc..
YOU 3 are believers.- we are one body- Christ's body -and this way of behaving toward each other disrespects the Lord's body.
We all agree on the foundational salvational issues! Some things we will not all agree on but is it salvational? Do we tear apart Christ's body over non-essentials? I can't do it! We are all at varying places in our walk with the Lord. WE need to exhibit patience with each other and try to walk in the Spirit of love and gentleness, This is just not right. WE are ONE standing against the other spiritual forces here that love when you fight. Please reconcile? If not for my sake, that's fine- then do it for Jesus.
Kiss and make up people..!
Not at all! I have nothing against anyone here. I'm here for fruitful dialog regarding God and His Word, and I'm happy to enage in that with anyone.
There are some obstacles to fruitful communication, generally speaking, when someone starts speaking for others, or begins to share negative personal comments, whether they be honest opinions formed from one's perceptions of others, or a self-affirming pejorative. We should lay all such aside. Put away pride, and with it defensiveness, and projection, and all these impediments to good and fruitful discussion.
We can even disagree without needing to accuse others of being in some cult, or being dishonest, or any such thing. I know, sometimes we may feel a strong need to "defend our turf" regarding strongly held convictions on key doctrines, but that feeling of need to defend our view, or defend ourselves, it's not the discussion, and shouldn't be allowed to drive the discussion.
The fruit of the Spirit is something much higher than this.
Much love!
I was thinking of this verse:
John 4:1-2 KJV
1) When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2) (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples)
Take a look at the full passage from vs. 22 to vs. 2, do these belong together?
Much love!
PS95
Well-Known Member
What I see repeatedly is people take someone else's view too personally when it disagrees with their own. We need to ALWAYS remind ourselves about what is salvational and what is not. Take a breath hand step back.
Also, many of us are constantly having to be alert for false teachers like the cults since they are allowed to designate themselves falsely as Christians here. We are chronically finding ourselves having to defend the basics of the faith against people who are here to TO DIVIDE us. That put us on defensive mode and that is the fault of the moderators. We never know who we are really talking to. Such a waste of time having to figure that out first, in order to attempt how to even process their ridiculous posts.
But yeah whatever- the fruits of the spirit should be seen and I think we forget the others who lurk are also reading and no one wants to read what a person with a bad attitude toward another believer has to say. Again, I am NOT talking about how to deal with cults on here. that's a whole other ball of wax. Let them be accursed since they are here only to divide, steal, kill and destroy and lie.
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