Do you believe this statement: "Jesus is YHWH", Yes or No?

[Kayla McCanny]

God became flesh.

He was made a little lower than the angels.


We are made in His image.


And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Revelation 5:1

Yes and GOD DOES refer to Jesus as GOD in the bible.

 

[Kayla McCanny]

GOD refers to Jesus coming as God in the flesh. It says his hands and feet will be pierced. God the Father does not have hands and feet pierced. God shows us it's God the son. So it's not just Jesus referring himself as God. God describes it.

 

[David in NJ]

Greetings again David in NJ,

I suggest that the I AM translation in the KJV and most modern translations is because of the supposed connection of Jesus' claim in John 8:58. There are a few translations that give I Will Be including Tyndale "I wilbe" and the RV and RSV margins. The Hebrew scholar AB Davidson also gives I will be and the Englishman's Concordance places Ehyeh of Exodus 3:14 under the future tense section.

I consider that the correct translation of John 8:58 should be "I am he", the same as in the immediate context John 8:24,28 and is part of the theme in John's Gospel of whether or not Jesus is the Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

And the difference between IAM and I am HE is???

 

[JLB]

GOD refers to Jesus coming as God in the flesh. It says his hands and feet will be pierced. God the Father does not have hands and feet pierced. God shows us it's God the son. So it's not just Jesus referring himself as God. God describes it.

I love that little dog of yours.

Schnooddle?

 

[David in NJ]

GOD refers to Jesus coming as God in the flesh. It says his hands and feet will be pierced. God the Father does not have hands and feet pierced. God shows us it's God the son. So it's not just Jesus referring himself as God. God describes it.

Kayla (love that name)

i AGREE with the fact that the FATHER is the FATHER and the SON is the SON

Your statement is contradictory = "God shows us it's God the son. So it's not just Jesus referring himself as God."

In order to understand JESUS words/speech we must understand:
#1 - He is speaking to the Jewish people to whom the Word of God came
#2 - the Hebrew word for 'God' in Genesis is 'Elohim' which is Plural
#3 - Genesis 1:26 "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = Plural

 

[Kayla McCanny]

I love that little dog of yours.

Schnooddle?

Thank you. He's a goofy one

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again David in NJ,

And the difference between IAM and I am HE is???

I am not suggesting I am HE and I do not know any translation that states this. Why do you use IAM? Again an unusual representation. Is this one word or two? Are you being careless or deliberately misleading?

Some Trinitarians claim that Jesus in John 8:58 is claiming the Divine Name I AM of Exodus 3:14, a translation of Exodus 3:14 that I consider erroneous as explained earlier. I understand "I am he" is Jesus claiming that he is the Christ as per context and theme in John's Gospel.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[dak]

Based on the Evidence of Genesis, OT Prophets, JESUS words in His Gospel, the Apostles and Revelation = YES = 100% YHWH

Thank you for voting.

We now have 11 YES votes, and another 3 who confirmed a YES vote in postings within the thread but did not actually cast a vote, all of which also claim to be Christians, for a total of 14 YES votes.

We also have 7 NO votes but three are "other faith", (including myself), which do not count for the purposes of this poll, and also one Christadelphian claiming to be a Christian, and either one or maybe two JW's claiming to be Christians, who also do not count for the purposes of this poll because none of those groups would have been included as evangelicals in the Arizona Poll either. In other words we only appear to have one vote, or maybe two, who claim to be Christians and voted NO in this poll, (so far). That means that out of 15 votes cast by people claiming to be Christians, only one appears to be an actual Trinitarian.

That is a ratio of 14 to 1, (maybe 13 to 2), which is worse than the percentages in the Arizona Poll which was posted earlier in this thread.

 

[dak]

Yes Jesus and YHWH are the same.

Romans 14:10-12 KJV
10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Isaiah 45:21-23 KJV
21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

YHWH has sworn that to Him every knee shall bow, which Paul shows will be at the judgment seat of Christ, and to Him shall we bow.

So yes, Jesus is YHWH.

Much love!

Duly noted, but why you no vote?

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you for voting.

We now have 11 YES votes, and another 3 who confirmed a YES vote in postings within the thread but did not actually cast a vote, all of which also claim to be Christians, for a total of 14 YES votes.

We also have 7 NO votes but three are "other faith", (including myself), which do not count for the purposes of this poll, and also one Christadelphian claiming to be a Christian, and either one or maybe two JW's claiming to be Christians, who also do not count for the purposes of this poll because none of those groups would have been included as evangelicals in the Arizona Poll either. In other words we only appear to have one vote, or maybe two, who claim to be Christians and voted NO in this poll, (so far). That means that out of 15 votes cast by people claiming to be Christians, only one appears to be an actual Trinitarian.

That is a ratio of 14 to 1, (maybe 13 to 2), which is worse than the percentages in the Arizona Poll which was posted earlier in this thread.

Thank You for responding AND another BIG Thank You for leaving out the votes of jw's who are in grave danger.

 

[David in NJ]

Greetings again David in NJ,

I am not suggesting I am HE and I do not know any translation that states this. Why do you use IAM? Again an unusual representation. Is this one word or two? Are you being careless or deliberately misleading?

Some Trinitarians claim that Jesus in John 8:58 is claiming the Divine Name I AM of Exodus 3:14, a translation of Exodus 3:14 that I consider erroneous as explained earlier. I understand "I am he" is Jesus claiming that he is the Christ as per context and theme in John's Gospel.

Kind regards
Trevor

JESUS specifically declared = not just claimed, but emphatically declared that HE was who appeared to Moses = NOT the FATHER

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:43-46
Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.

SHALOM

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again David in NJ and dak,

JESUS specifically declared = not just claimed, but emphatically declared that HE was who appeared to Moses = NOT the FATHER

Exodus 3 states that it was the Angel of Yahweh who appeared to Moses.
Exodus 3:1-2 {KJV): 1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

We also have 7 NO votes but three are "other faith", (including myself), which do not count for the purposes of this poll, and also one Christadelphian claiming to be a Christian

"Other faith"? Do you consider that you are out of fellowship with Paul, Barnabas and the believers at Antioch?
Acts 11:25-26 (KJV): 25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[shepherdsword]

Thank you for voting.

We now have 11 YES votes, and another 3 who confirmed a YES vote in postings within the thread but did not actually cast a vote, all of which also claim to be Christians, for a total of 14 YES votes.

We also have 7 NO votes but three are "other faith", (including myself), which do not count for the purposes of this poll, and also one Christadelphian claiming to be a Christian, and either one or maybe two JW's claiming to be Christians, who also do not count for the purposes of this poll because none of those groups would have been included as evangelicals in the Arizona Poll either. In other words we only appear to have one vote, or maybe two, who claim to be Christians and voted NO in this poll, (so far). That means that out of 15 votes cast by people claiming to be Christians, only one appears to be an actual Trinitarian.

That is a ratio of 14 to 1, (maybe 13 to 2), which is worse than the percentages in the Arizona Poll which was posted earlier in this thread.

You are confused. I suggest that all who voted "yes" believe in the Trinity.
1)The Father is YHWH
2)The Son is YHWH
3)The Holy Spirit is YHWH

These three are one (echad)

 

[dak]

"Other faith"? Do you consider that you are out of fellowship with Paul, Barnabas and the believers at Antioch?

Nope, I absolutely do not.

How about you? Do you honestly believe that Christian members on this board believe that staunch anti-Trinitarian Christadelphians such as yourself are Christians? Who decides what is a Christian here? This is a privately owned internet forum: perhaps you also should read the statement of faith, and change whatever might need to be changed accordingly in your faith info box, just in case it might appear to some that you might be trying to deceive people here?

I understand that there are groups, sects, and-or denominations who want to say and believe and claim they too are Christians, (even Mormons claim to be Christians), and that's their and your prerogative, but that isn't what this is about, it's about who and what this forum says is acceptable to be considered a Christian to post on these forum boards.

It's also possible that this might be part of the problem in legitimate polls and surveys, like the Arizona survey I linked to earlier in the thread, but I seriously doubt it: surely they did not include JW's, Mormons, Christadelphians, or any "other faith" types such as myself and two others who voted here.

The next question then becomes: Who is a Trinitarian? for that is essentially what the modern MS at least used to believe made someone a Christian. Next question then becomes: Do real Trinitarians believe that "Jesus is the Father"? The Word of the Father tells me exactly who is the Father, and His Name is YHWH, (transliterated into English from יהוה).

 

[dak]

You are confused. I suggest that all who voted "yes" believe in the Trinity.
1)The Father is YHWH
2)The Son is YHWH
3)The Holy Spirit is YHWH

These three are one (echad)

Please review the Trinity Shield and what it says, which is the standard basic Trinitarian position, and likewise please review these following passages which were already either posted or at least referenced by me previously in this thread.

Deueronomy 32:6 RNKJV (Restored Name KJV)
6 Do ye thus requite יהוה, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

Isaiah 63:16-19 RNKJV
16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O יהוה, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Jeremiah 3:1-4 RNKJV
1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith יהוה
2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.
3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, [Abbi] thou art the guide of my youth?

Jeremiah 3:19 RNKJV
17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of יהוה; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of יהוה, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
19 But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, [benim, sons] and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

YHWH is Abba, "Father", and Abbi, "my Father". Otherwise one cannot even be placed among His sons, (Jer 3:4, Jer 3:19, in the full context of the chapter), and the Meshiah also confirms this in Mark 14:36, saying, "Abba, Father", and likewise Paul affirms the same by the Spirit of adoption which we have received, Rom 8:15.

You've taken the title of Father from the Most High and have divided it between three "persons" to make your theory work.

 

[David in NJ]

Greetings again David in NJ and dak,

Exodus 3 states that it was the Angel of Yahweh who appeared to Moses.
Exodus 3:1-2 {KJV): 1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

"Other faith"? Do you consider that you are out of fellowship with Paul, Barnabas and the believers at Antioch?
Acts 11:25-26 (KJV): 25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Kind regards
Trevor

Good Morning TrevorHL

We must believe JESUS words over that of any other in Scripture.

It is JESUS Alone who knows(speaking of Him becoming flesh)

i will share more but had a terrible night of only 2 hours sleep.

 

[shepherdsword]

Please review the Trinity Shield and what it says, which is the standard basic Trinitarian position,

I have the classic Trinity position

You've taken the title of Father from the Most High and have divided it between three "persons" to make your theory work.

No, I have separated each into a distinct identity and, as the Shema, stated that they are one.

 

[Matthias]

I have the classic Trinity position

No, I have separated each into a distinct identity and, as the Shema, stated that they are one.

View attachment 75352

Elohim is always plural in form but is almost always singular in meaning; always singular in meaning when used to describe Yahweh. He is one; not they is one.

Elohim, plural in form, singular in meaning -> God, god

Elohim, plural in form, plural in meaning -> gods

The Shema is the Creed of Judaism / the Messiah’s Creed.

 

[dak]

Thank You for responding AND another BIG Thank You for leaving out the votes of jw's who are in grave danger.

That was not my intention at all in singling out the sects and beliefs which I did, (which included my own). It was strictly an attempt to keep as much accuracy to the polling numbers and results as possible, (up to this point). It had nothing to do with separating out anyone you might consider to be "in grave danger", or lost, or unsaved, or anything else along those lines.

 

[David in NJ]

That was not my intention at all in singling out the sects and beliefs which I did, (which included my own). It was strictly an attempt to keep as much accuracy to the polling numbers and results as possible, (up to this point). It had nothing to do with separating out anyone you might consider to be "in grave danger", or lost, or unsaved, or anything else along those lines.

JESUS stated 'matter-of-FACT' all of mankind is in GRAVE DANGER of the Second Death

Today as we approach the Second Coming of CHRIST, the Holy Spirit is shouting LOUD from the Scriptures to us

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

Again very little sleep last night

i will return in a little while - Thank You