Do you seek the Kingdom of God FIRST or still FIRST today, as a believer or as a seeker? Or in both conditions?

[APAK]

When we are saved and being saved throughout this life for the next immortal next life, are we then in the Kingdom as a believer today, or only in some future time?

Or only a few are in the Kingdom today, those with the secret knowledge of living in some special unexplained, mysterious beyond walk in Christ in a glorified state?

Are we to continue to seek the Kingdom of God first, again and again, continually (again and again since conversion) as a believer since Christ's ascension, or are we in the Kingdom today and are still getting used to this Kingdom living as we mature and are ever-reminded we are already in the Kingdom, in the spirit of Christ given by God? All our real needs are currently being met!

Is the Kingdom sought for, found, binary or not? Sought and found, or sought and never really found by design until the next life? And we are to keep seeking it?

Has anyone answer(s) to this topic of discussion and debate and presented not in a mode of infighting with inpatient impulses ready to strike out at others without real just cause.

Ref: Matthew Chapter 6 for starters, the concern by Christ, by his words for his audiences to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God. Does he mean for only the seekers, his audience at that time, and/or for new believers of yesterday or today and tomorrow in some type of minimum, more carnal lower walk, or the already mature believer of the Kingdom, after the Day of Pentecost?

(Mat 6:7) And in praying do not use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

(Mat 6:8) Therefore, do not be like them! Even before you ask Him, your Father knows what things you need.

(Mat 6:9) In this manner you should pray: Our Father who is in heaven, let Your Name be glorified.

(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.

(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

(Mat 6:14) For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

(Mat 6:15) But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(Mat 6:30) Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is here today but tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not more surely care for you, O you of little faith!

(Mat 6:31) Therefore, do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed?

(Mat 6:32) For the Gentiles clamour for all these things; even though your heavenly Father knows you have need of them all.

(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

(Mat 6:34) Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


Does this subject alter your view of salvation in a small or big way or not at all?

What say ye....?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, Apak, read your article here.

While, Paul wrote to Colossians, saying “For he
has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.” It seems that the Kingdom of God is something that is retained in the heart of a believer, with hope to be able to enter by merit of the Lord Jesus Christ and belief and faith on him and his work he done for Yahavah. It seems also here, Paul equated that God having rescued them from the kingdom of darkness (notice Paul doesn’t say “Kingdom of Satan.” Darkness starts to be burned out of a believer who comes to the Light, all while desiring to do dark things, one must reorient the selves in looking and abiding to the Lord Yeshua, whom is the one who works in us, even can be seen as a brother to all who choose to Gods will. God will continue to spiritually support those who seek him in faith, and he is a rewarder of those who seek him, and he calls to all people continually, inviting them to come and sit and rest and enjoy the company, in where the heart resides upon. The Father and the Son who we have fellowship indwell us by and through our heart (soul) mind/will/emotions. God is near, never far away. The renewing of the mind is something needed and the Bible is a way to do that when one does it by the spirit which Yahavah gives out to any and all who calls out to him in faith, no matter where they are. He burns the darkness out by and through the baptism of Holy Spirit and Fire which is brought forth from the Word of God. We also becomes heirs with Christ, and what Christ has we too have, and that is a Kingdom which God resides in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[APAK]

Hello, Apak, read your article here.

While, Paul wrote to Colossians, saying “For he
has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.” It seems that the Kingdom of God is something that is retained in the heart of a believer, with hope to be able to enter by merit of the Lord Jesus Christ and belief and faith on him and his work he done for Yahavah. It seems also here, Paul equated that God having rescued them from the kingdom of darkness (notice Paul doesn’t say “Kingdom of Satan.” Darkness starts to be burned out of a believer who comes to the Light, all while desiring to do dark things, one must reorient the selves in looking and abiding to the Lord Yeshua, whom is the one who works in us, even can be seen as a brother to all who choose to Gods will. God will continue to spiritually support those who seek him in faith, and he is a rewarder of those who seek him, and he calls to all people continually, inviting them to come and sit and rest and enjoy the company, in where the heart resides upon. The Father and the Son who we have fellowship indwell us by and through our heart (soul) mind/will/emotions. God is near, never far away. The renewing of the mind is something needed and the Bible is a way to do that when one does it by the spirit which Yahavah gives out to any and all who calls out to him in faith, no matter where they are. He burns the darkness out by and through the baptism of Holy Spirit and Fire which is brought forth from the Word of God. We also becomes heirs with Christ, and what Christ has we too have, and that is a Kingdom which God resides in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Great response imo Matthew....so we have sought out and found, and are in the Kingdom today as growing believers...

You know there are folks that still think we still have to find this Kingdom as believers. And even some go as far as saying they have found and have been in the Kingdom and think most other believers have yet to find it because they have not gone into Christ on a mystery ride to be glorified yet!

Yes, we do share in what Christ possesses, today, as the Father permits.....

 

[MatthewG]

Hopefully there will be more people who may join in conversation about your topic at hand, @APAK.

 

[APAK]

Hopefully there will be more people who may join in conversation about your topic at hand, @APAK.

I hope so, because it is an area of scripture that is overlooked by most. Even most pastors or teachers preach it out of context and use it for other purposes, like as a warm fuzzy appeal to keep seeking Kingdom to stay focused and be Christlike in life, and they are already in the Kingdom....

Folks I guess do not think it a big deal if one is in the Kingdom today or not. And they should, as the basis or foundation of their conversion and who they are as a new person in Christ.

They 'stand' in the Kingdom today and are people and citizens of it today. I wear this within me everyday and believe it.

 

[amadeus]

I hope so, because it is an area of scripture that is overlooked by most. Even most pastors or teachers preach it out of context and use it for other purposes, like as a warm fuzzy appeal to keep seeking Kingdom to stay focused and be Christlike in life, and they are already in the Kingdom....

Folks I guess do not think it a big deal if one is in the Kingdom today or not. And they should, as the basis or foundation of their conversion and who they are as a new person in Christ.

They 'stand' in the Kingdom today and are people and citizens of it today. I wear this within me everyday and believe it.

Are we now Alive to God because we now really believe in the Truth?

Joh 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Are those who now then believe in Him, already in the Kingdom? The work on us who have not yet overcome all that Jesus overcame is continuing. Must it be finished to be in the Kingdom? The following verse you quoted above:

(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

All of these things should include then all that the Father knows that we need as you @APAK showed above. Is your question if the "when" of it is now or at some later "time"? For me it is in the Reality of God, which I believe to be not according to man's clocks and calendars. Dead men are not in the Reality of God. Men who are alive to God hear how well and see how well?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Are our perceptions of God and things of God improving as we overcome those things which stand between us and God?vercome?

 

[APAK]

Are we now Alive to God because we now really believe in the Truth?

Joh 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Are those who now then believe in Him, already in the Kingdom? The work on us who have not yet overcome all that Jesus overcame is continuing. Must it be finished to be in the Kingdom? The following verse you quoted above:

(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

All of these things should include then all that the Father knows that we need as you @APAK showed above. Is your question if the "when" of it is now or at some later "time"? For me it is in the Reality of God, which I believe to be not according to man's clocks and calendars. Dead men are not in the Reality of God. Men who are alive to God hear how well and see how well?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Are our perceptions of God and things of God improving as we overcome those things which stand between us and God?vercome?

I was wondering when, and not if you would chime in John. I know a bit about you, if you do not mind that I do...

I sought the Kingdom of God actually without realizing it when I was a seeker, and I did not really know that as well. As part of my personal testimony I have given before.

Knowing and learning the truth of or about God, is mutually exclusive to when one sought and found the Kingdom of God. And scripture does not correct me on this point.

So to your first question, "Are we now Alive to God because we now really believe in the Truth?" I do not know how to answer this question in the way it's worded, frankly. If you mean we know the spiritual truth of the gospel and salvation and its wonderful grace given, as the Spirit expects, then Yes, we are alive and kicking in our new womb and birth as children of God today, in the Kingdom.

And your second question: "Are those who now then believe in Him, already in the Kingdom? " Yes is my answer, and to those only who also know the Spirit of God via his son's spirit, that they are both present, and living within them.

And for your 3rd question: "Must it be finished to be in the Kingdom? " No! His truth and knowledge to us by his will and desire is still being done of earth as it is in heaven, today, as we are in the Kingdom today serving him from these human vessels on earth. It does not change our place and state of being in the Kingdom today because we do not know all the truth.

Matt 6:33 again, and in context, applies to Jesus' audience then and for those seeking the Kingdom then and new seeker since the day of Pentecost, even today. And there were many who did find (although not entered yet) the Kingdom before than Day as scripture explains it being taken by violence - a poor translation of course that really means many were eager to be in it as if invading and tearing down barriers to a town, a stampede, to get into the Kingdom. There was a great eagerness to enter into the Kingdom, and many did enter. And they did not have to wait until a futurist time to enter in the Kingdom some thousands of years later. That thought is created because of ones own personal Eschatology and not based on scripture.

We are alive today in the Spirit, knowing essential spiritual truths of God and more in time, in the Kingdom of God, today.

The complete truth of God that scripture infers only, will be fully known in the next life of immortality in this same Kingdom as it is today. We will then not be looking through a glass darkly (1 Cor 13:12). This does not suggest by any means we are not working in it today with the truth we have in our possession, doing God's will from his heavenly realm and given to us, and into us, as his very witnesses as the salt of this earth today...as said in Matthew of the Lord's prayer.


I hope I answered your queries in full...


Blessing to you John

 

[amadeus]

I was wondering when, and not if you would chime in John. I know a bit about you, if you do not mind that I do...

I don't chime in much anymore these days. I can remember a time when I read most, and sometimes all, of the posts on this forum as well as on other forums. Now, I only regularly read here and only a very few posts at that and respond to even fewer. It is rare that I see anything new to me. There is so much wasted breath [as in talking a lot without saying anything] it seems to me. I guess other people may have a different take on that.

No... I do not mind that you do as per your last sentence.

I sought the Kingdom of God actually without realizing it when I was a seeker, and I did not really know that as well. As part of my personal testimony I have given before.

Most every young or new seeker, I would imagine, sought the kingdom before really beginning to know what he was doing. I certainly did. I was extremely naive about a lot of things then and not only regarding the things directly relating to God. I remain naive in places for certain.

Knowing and learning the truth of or about God, is mutually exclusive to when one sought and found the Kingdom of God. And scripture does not correct me on this point.

We need to love the "Truth" even before we fully understand what the Truth is. Isn't that what Paul meant here?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is perhaps a major reason behind the many differences in denominations, and between individuals anywhere including forums like this one.

We all started out blind, but even being in the beginning almost blind we loved Jesus [the Truth] anyway. Has our vision of Him improved since we first believed? Or... have we locked our doors so tightly that not even God is able to penetrate to make necessary corrections or additions?

So to your first question, "Are we now Alive to God because we now really believe in the Truth?" I do not know how to answer this question in the way it's worded, frankly. If you mean we know the spiritual truth of the gospel and salvation and its wonderful grace given, as the Spirit expects, then Yes, we are alive and kicking in our new womb and birth as children of God today, in the Kingdom.

Again, Jesus is the Life as well as the Truth. Without a whole lot of knowledge when first we were "saved" we were certainly Alive, but what happens to a tiny new-born baby, which does not receive necessary and proper nourishment so as to grow toward maturity?

Joh 6:53	Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54	Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And your second question: "Are those who now then believe in Him, already in the Kingdom? " Yes is my answer, and to those only who also know the Spirit of God via his son's spirit, that they are both present, and living within them.

I agree.

And for your 3rd question: "Must it be finished to be in the Kingdom? " No! His truth and knowledge to us by his will and desire is still being done of earth as it is in heaven, today, as we are in the Kingdom today serving him from these human vessels on earth. It does not change our place and state of being in the Kingdom today because we do not know all the truth.

Should not our "finish" be when God is finished with us? When is that? When is it that we are to stop eating His flesh and drinking His blood? Who is the "Finisher" of our faith?

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..

What is the "earth" in which His will is to be done, if not the little bit of earth [dust] of which we were formed?

Ge 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Matt 6:33 again, and in context, applies to Jesus' audience then and for those seeking the Kingdom then and new seeker since the day of Pentecost, even today. And there were many who did find (although not entered yet) the Kingdom before than Day as scripture explains it being taken by violence - a poor translation of course that really means many were eager to be in it as if invading and tearing down barriers to a town, a stampede, to get into the Kingdom.

Does this seeking also relate to God's instruction to David here to seek His face?

Ps 27:8

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

What is a man to see...? Consider what Solomon wrote here:

Pr 29:18

Where there is no vision, the people perish:..

It would seem that David was able to receive a clearer vision than his son.

There was a great eagerness to enter into the Kingdom, and many did enter. And they did not have to wait until a futurist time to enter in the Kingdom some thousands of years later. That thought is created because of ones own personal Eschatology and not based on scripture.

Consider of the different blind men given vision by Jesus... this one:

Mr 8:22	And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

We are alive today in the Spirit, knowing essential spiritual truths of God and more in time, in the Kingdom of God, today.

Have any of us been touched a second time by Jesus or even more times than that in order to increase our "essential spiritual truths"... that is to say, to improve our vision of His face?

The complete truth of God that scripture infers only, will be fully known in the next life of immortality in this same Kingdom as it is today. We will then not be looking through a glass darkly (1 Cor 13:12). This does not suggest by any means we are not working in it today with the truth we have in our possession, doing God's will from his heavenly realm and given to us, and into us, as his very witnesses as the salt of this earth today...as said in Matthew of the Lord's prayer.

How much can be "known" prior to any "next life"... that is "today"? Is God the limiting factor... or is it us?

Jesus said, "I am the Light of the world" [John 8:12], but he also said, "Ye are the Light of the world" [Matt 5:14].

When is that "then face to face" of I Cor 13:12 to be?

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I hope I answered your queries in full...

What does that even mean to me or to you or to anyone... "in full"? Who among us has finished his course?

Ac 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

2ti 4:7	I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2ti 4:8	Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Blessing to you John

And to you my old friend!

 

[APAK]

I don't chime in much anymore these days. I can remember a time when I read most, and sometimes all, of the posts on this forum as well as on other forums. Now, I only regularly read here and only a very few posts at that and respond to even fewer. It is rare that I see anything new to me. There is so much wasted breath [as in talking a lot without saying anything] it seems to me. I guess other people may have a different take on that.

No... I do not mind that you do as per your last sentence.

Most every young or new seeker, I would imagine, sought the kingdom before really beginning to know what he was doing. I certainly did. I was extremely naive about a lot of things then and not only regarding the things directly relating to God. I remain naive in places for certain.

We need to love the "Truth" even before we fully understand what the Truth is. Isn't that what Paul meant here?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is perhaps a major reason behind the many differences in denominations, and between individuals anywhere including forums like this one.

We all started out blind, but even being in the beginning almost blind we loved Jesus [the Truth] anyway. Has our vision of Him improved since we first believed? Or... have we locked our doors so tightly that not even God is able to penetrate to make necessary corrections or additions?

Again, Jesus is the Life as well as the Truth. Without a whole lot of knowledge when first we were "saved" we were certainly Alive, but what happens to a tiny new-born baby, which does not receive necessary and proper nourishment so as to grow toward maturity?

Joh 6:53	Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54	Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I agree.

Should not our "finish" be when God is finished with us? When is that? When is it that we are to stop eating His flesh and drinking His blood? Who is the "Finisher" of our faith?

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..

What is the "earth" in which His will is to be done, if not the little bit of earth [dust] of which we were formed?

Ge 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Does this seeking also relate to God's instruction to David here to seek His face?

Ps 27:8

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

What is a man to see...? Consider what Solomon wrote here:

Pr 29:18

Where there is no vision, the people perish:..

It would seem that David was able to receive a clearer vision than his son.

Consider of the different blind men given vision by Jesus... this one:

Mr 8:22	And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Have any of us been touched a second time by Jesus or even more times than that in order to increase our "essential spiritual truths"... that is to say, to improve our vision of His face?

How much can be "known" prior to any "next life"... that is "today"? Is God the limiting factor... or is it us?

Jesus said, "I am the Light of the world" [John 8:12], but he also said, "Ye are the Light of the world" [Matt 5:14].

When is that "then face to face" of I Cor 13:12 to be?

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

What does that even mean to me or to you or to anyone... "in full"? Who among us has finished his course?

Ac 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

2ti 4:7	I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2ti 4:8	Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

And to you my old friend!

Well said John and as usual you bring in thoughts and ideas applicable to the lives of a believer; as you breakdown and clarify this subject some more and with scripture.

Can I summarize your words in my own spirit led rant...it will be short....

Yes, to seek and see/experience, and embrace the face of God is the goal indeed.....as the Son is in the Father so we are also in the Son. God is indeed in all of us. I experience my savior today as he speaks to me often and brings his love and friendship whether I'm ready or not to receive and be of the same spirit. I've learned this over the years and it's such a precious thing I sometime literally cry out with tears of joy and thanksgiving.

Speaking of the truth, the truth is found in Christ, in his life that shines brightly in my soul, indeed. The founder and finisher of our faith, our friend, our brother, and also our leader and master of our souls as we traverse this life with him, and for sure in his spirit.

We are today walking on his holy path he laid down for us on the Cross, leading us with our given and ever-growing faith on our holy journey to his home of his Father, in his sanctuary called the Kingdom of God.

We are truly blessed John, and so are all other genuine believers, and words cannot even start to bring understanding to this grace we have been given, and yes in full measure, and only if we all realized it. We are truly complete in him, amen

 

[amadeus]

Well said John and as usual you bring in thoughts and ideas applicable to the lives of a believer; as you breakdown and clarify this subject some more and with scripture.

Can I summarize your words in my own spirit led rant...it will be short....

Yes, to seek and see/experience, and embrace the face of God is the goal indeed.....as the Son is in the Father so we are also in the Son. God is indeed in all of us. I experience my savior today as he speaks to me often and brings his love and friendship whether I'm ready or not to receive and be of the same spirit. I've learned this over the years and it such a precious thing I sometime literally cry out with tears of joy and thanksgiving.

Speaking of the truth, the truth is found in Christ, in his life that shines brightly in my soul, indeed. The founder and finisher of our faith, our friend, our brother, and also our leader and master of our souls as we traverse this life with him, and for sure in his spirit.

We are today walking on his holy path he laid down for us on the Cross, leading us with our given and ever-growing faith on our holy journey to his home of his Father, in his sanctuary called the Kingdom of God.

We are truly blessed John, and so are all other genuine believers, and words cannot even start to bring understanding to this grace we have been given, and yes in full measure, and only he we all realized it. We are truly complete in him, amen

Give God the glory!

 

[APAK]

Give God the glory!

Amen....until later

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I hope so, because it is an area of scripture that is overlooked by most. Even most pastors or teachers preach it out of context and use it for other purposes, like as a warm fuzzy appeal to keep seeking Kingdom to stay focused and be Christlike in life, and they are already in the Kingdom....

Folks I guess do not think it a big deal if one is in the Kingdom today or not. And they should, as the basis or foundation of their conversion and who they are as a new person in Christ.

They 'stand' in the Kingdom today and are people and citizens of it today. I wear this within me everyday and believe it.

When one says, if you believe in Jesus you are Saved ? well No, one is not Saved for believing in Jesus in fact !

One must know who Christ Jesus is in fact !

You know i had faith in Jesus as a child and this grew in me and i was solid in Jesus standing up for him and all, but one day i came to know him ? and bingo the Lights came on within my Soul ! It all happened in a flash ! I found myself falling to the floor and in tears, for i knew him now !
I was seeking him for years to get to know him, but to no vale in regards the Churches or People, tho they did help or hinder such, but boy what a Blessing to know Christ Jesus is and it was from that point that i started truly growing in Christ Jesus truly in fact !

so i left the Churches because they were not worthy of Christ Jesus in fact, for they were on about a Religious program that is with this World ! I had come out from them, as the Bible says we must do !

 

[APAK]

When one says, if you believe in Jesus you are Saved ? well No, one is not Saved for believing in Jesus in fact !

One must know who Christ Jesus is in fact !

You know i had faith in Jesus as a child and this grew in me and i was solid in Jesus standing up for him and all, but one day i came to know him ? and bingo the Lights came on within my Soul ! It all happened in a flash ! I found myself falling to the floor and in tears, for i knew him now !
I was seeking him for years to get to know him, but to no vale in regards the Churches or People, tho they did help or hinder such, but boy what a Blessing to know Christ Jesus is and it was from that point that i started truly growing in Christ Jesus truly in fact !

so i left the Churches because they were not worthy of Christ Jesus in fact, for they were on about a Religious program that is with this World ! I had come out from them, as the Bible says we must do !

Thanks for your personal testimony Reggie, it must have been a truly personal experience in coming to the Father God by finding his Son. What joy and peace you have now knowing your lord and saviour, and at the same time your spiritual eyes have been opened up to see the complacency and religious hypocrisy in most churches of this world. I'm glad you have separated from this spiritual deception.

 

[Ritajanice]

Give God the glory!

Always!!....Brother!....xx

 

[APAK]

Always!!....Brother!....xx

Yes, the glory is always truly to God Sis.

These experiences of Christ's 'extended' spirit in me and speaking to me as I I shared with @amadeus, in my walk, began early when I was converted in 1974, April. Then I began to experience this 'working our my salvation' as Paul coined the expression, a mixture of carnality and purity in-the-Kingdom and peaceful spirituality set in. Riding the ups and downs in my life....and since my 50s I've noticed that my carnal side was greatly diminished in my walk. Out of age, experiences in this world, seeing close ones get sick and even die, I drew even closer to Christ in my walk. Today I have to say it's much easier to walk in the Kingdom as I execute my top apex high calling, this special heavenly calling to become even more Christlike, as if I'm completely divorced from this world. And I do place myself in this state of mind and heart a lot these days. It's also akin to being there for others around me 24/7....not explainable and also loving it.

And the Glory is again to God for all of it, and my life.

 

[Lizbeth]

When we are saved and being saved throughout this life for the next immortal next life, are we then in the Kingdom as a believer today, or only in some future time?

Or only a few are in the Kingdom today, those with the secret knowledge of living in some special unexplained, mysterious beyond walk in Christ in a glorified state?

Are we to continue to seek the Kingdom of God first, again and again, continually (again and again since conversion) as a believer since Christ's ascension, or are we in the Kingdom today and are still getting used to this Kingdom living as we mature and are ever-reminded we are already in the Kingdom, in the spirit of Christ given by God? All our real needs are currently being met!

Is the Kingdom sought for, found, binary or not? Sought and found, or sought and never really found by design until the next life? And we are to keep seeking it?

Has anyone answer(s) to this topic of discussion and debate and presented not in a mode of infighting with inpatient impulses ready to strike out at others without real just cause.

Ref: Matthew Chapter 6 for starters, the concern by Christ, by his words for his audiences to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God. Does he mean for only the seekers, his audience at that time, and/or for new believers of yesterday or today and tomorrow in some type of minimum, more carnal lower walk, or the already mature believer of the Kingdom, after the Day of Pentecost?

(Mat 6:7) And in praying do not use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do, for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

(Mat 6:8) Therefore, do not be like them! Even before you ask Him, your Father knows what things you need.

(Mat 6:9) In this manner you should pray: Our Father who is in heaven, let Your Name be glorified.

(Mat 6:10) Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.

(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

(Mat 6:14) For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

(Mat 6:15) But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(Mat 6:30) Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is here today but tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not more surely care for you, O you of little faith!

(Mat 6:31) Therefore, do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, How shall we be clothed?

(Mat 6:32) For the Gentiles clamour for all these things; even though your heavenly Father knows you have need of them all.

(Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

(Mat 6:34) Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


Does this subject alter your view of salvation in a small or big way or not at all?

What say ye....?

Good questions APAK. I don't have a binary, black and white, two-dimensional view of the kingdom....and I have a big problem with that view, which I regard as unspiritual, aka of the carnal mind. What I see in scripture is that the kingdom of God is something that we have entered by faith as well as something we are seeking to enter by faith.......we are both there as well as on our way there. But the carnal mind of the natural man can't comprehend this, since it is spiritually discerned. The kingdom is within us, as Jesus said. And Jesus also said you know the "way" to where I am going. That way is the way of the cross, the narrow way, following Him, as He is our forerunner.

There is a yes but not yet to these things. Which the binary two-dimensional view that I have been hearing in recent days denies the "yes" part, and seeks to pull the rug out from under our faith. (And there has been a hatred and prejudiced attitude displayed at times for that faith......which can't be of the Lord.)

From what scriptures indicate, ultimately we will only really "attain" after death of the physical body and we have finished our race....like Jesus, and like Paul. When do we ever stop running the race so as to win it? Not until death according to Paul. When do we become "like the angels"? Not until death according to Jesus, though we may be given blessed tastes of the powers of the heavenly world to come in this life. (But even then we are to test the spirits!) Paul didn't consider he had finished his race until he was awaiting his imminent death. And he wrote that we are to be of the same mind as him and not consider that we have yet apprehended/attained while in this life.

Even the apostle John, as advanced in years as he was, after suffering as much as he did, was in the spirit on the Lord's Day, which tells us he wasn't always in the spirit every day. Who here is going to put themselves on a par with or above the apostle Jesus loved and who wrote on a level above the others? Anyone on this forum been boiled in oil for the sake of Christ and lived to tell the tale, then I might be inclined to just listen to them and not say much. Otherwise they are subject to scrutiny and questions and testing by the word of God the same as anyone as far as I'm concerned. (And anyone not allowing this is suspect in my opinion.)

 

[Lizbeth]

I hope so, because it is an area of scripture that is overlooked by most. Even most pastors or teachers preach it out of context and use it for other purposes, like as a warm fuzzy appeal to keep seeking Kingdom to stay focused and be Christlike in life, and they are already in the Kingdom....

Folks I guess do not think it a big deal if one is in the Kingdom today or not. And they should, as the basis or foundation of their conversion and who they are as a new person in Christ.

They 'stand' in the Kingdom today and are people and citizens of it today. I wear this within me everyday and believe it.

Amen, that is our SURE foundation, not a delusion as some are calling it. We must not ever let anyone take it away from us.

 

[APAK]

Amen, that is our SURE foundation, not a delusion as some are calling it. We must not ever let anyone take it away from us.

You are right Sis, we are the only types of vessels who do the will of God in the Kingdom upon this earth today as it's done in concert with those doing the same will of God in heavenly portion of the Kingdom. Even those of a colder climate than mine.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Mat 6:33) So seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

What is “seek First His Kingdom, and His Righteousness” and “all these things will be added unto you?

Imo what is added in “His Righteousness” is: 2 Peter 1:3-7 According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue: [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped (you speak of salivation or being spared)the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Seek First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and these things will be added :Faith, Virtue, knowledge (of Christ which makes you neither unfruitful or barren), temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity will be added unto you.
He speaks of that you not be found naked (having your own righteousness) but that you be found clothed in Christ having the water He gives that when one drinks they never thirst again, and the food that one doesn’t go hungry. And clothes that don’t wax old as in take off the old and put on the New Man Christ.

You asked if “seek you First the Kingdom and His Righteous” and “all these things will be added unto you” is a one time deal or one time confessional thing and then that is all? Who do you know that immediately has all those things listed about added unto them? I’m having trouble finding any in this world that have those things added in “seek First the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you” …sure everyone says they seek Him first but actions say otherwise (Imo). so no (Imo) I don’t think it’s immediate you seek and you are clothed but a growing process of being clothed. Paul is an example I see always seeking to be clothed in Christ, not sitting back with his heels up but continuing on to be clothed daily and further in Faith, Virtue, knowledge (of Christ which makes you neither unfruitful or barren), temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity…
even encouraging “be increased in HIM!”

 

[MA2444]

When we are saved and being saved throughout this life for the next immortal next life, are we then in the Kingdom as a believer today, or only in some future time?

Is the Kingdom sought for, found, binary or not? Sought and found, or sought and never really found by design until the next life? And we are to keep seeking it?

Those are fair questions. The Lord told us in scripture also! It's way back in Jerimiah 29

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.../KJV

This was just as true for us as it was for them.

Matthew 24
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.../KJV

So the Kingdom of God is not, "out there" but rather, "at hand". Yu must go internal to seek the Lord. I was talking on a christian forum once and I said that I was going to begin seeing the Lord in spirit...and another well intentioned but blind christian warned me that, That's a good way to get your self in trouble with a Demon because all that stuff is new age astral projection...!!

He couldn't be further from the truth.

Luke 11:10-12
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?.../KJV

So if you go seeking God in spirit, you are Not going to run into any demons I dunno, you might see one running away? Lol. I know 3 to 4 techniques for seeking the Lord.
In no particular order...

Prayer.
Praying.
Pray without Ceasing.
The word of God.

Seeing the Lord with yur whole heart means reaching out to Him and taking hold of Him (in spirit) and...not letting Him go! Invite Him every where with you. Talk to Him as you drive over. Invite Him in the store with you. Ask Him questions!

It doesnt matter of you only make small talk with Him. I have it on good authority that He likes that! Use your heart to go before Him and walk with faith and trust in Him. Do not let Hi go! Don't walk away from Him! Dont leave him in the car! Reach out in faith to your Lord and believe it, He IS there.

In the NT a lady snuck up on Jesus and touched the hem of His robe. She believed that she would be healed. Except Jesus hadnt died yet and paid the price! So this all happened under old covenant. But Jesus said thy faith has made thee whole. That lady reachedout through time to take hold of the promise that was coming with Jesus's resurrection. By faith she did this, so the Lord honored it and healed her.

In the OT, Abraham, through faith received the promise also. His faith was reckoned as righteousness for what He did in faith. So you have to have faith and trust in the Lord.

If you start pursuing the Lord like this...I advise you to expect things to happen. Be watchful for them and believe.
You wont find Him at first. But when He decides that you have sought Him enough to show you are serious...then He will make Himself known to you. You can find Him!