Does all of Israel have to be restored before the Tribulation?

[Eternally Grateful]

Perhaps you may like to show me where God stated that Abraham was going to receive the Land of Canaan as a possession in Genesis 13. The translations indicate that he does in our English translations, but the source Hebrew Texts do not.

But hey, I am happy for you to believe in an interpretation perpetuated by the translators of so long ago that it has now become the traditional understanding for many people of God's promises within the Abrahamic covenant.

Shalom

PS: - I am happy for you to show me my error.

He actually said his descendents would be given a specific plot of land

here is just one example

gen 15
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

this is just one place, I mean believe what you want I am happy to let you continue to believe as you do, but please know why I can not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Keep in mind that the date of 2044 ± 5 years is when the judgement of the Kings of the earth will occur on the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the Gentile Kings trampling both God's Sanctuary on the earth and God's earthly hosts, i.e. the Nation of Israel, and will come unexpectantly like a thief, when Christ will be seen by Israel judging the Kings of the earth and their armies and at that time they will seek His terms of Peace. In Luke we are given two indications of this occurring in Luke 14:31-32 and 19:14. Isaiah 24:21-22 also speaks of the Judgement of the wicked heavenly hosts at the same time as the kings of the earth and that bottom the heavenly hosts and kings of the earth found wanting will be imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days, i.e. 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment. Revelation 16:12-16 describes the events leading up to the time of judgement as described in Isaiah 24:21-22 with 9/11 being described in the 6th bowl judgement and seen by all of the earth at the same time, while the signs and wonders were being revealed by the three frog like spirits that went out for all of the earth to see. Isaiah 24:23 then goes on to describe the establishment of God's presence on the earth.



Eternally Grateful is presenting his argument from the understanding that the bowl judgements are recorded in Revelation 16 in the chronological order in which they have been recorded, and as such he is not entertaining the possibility that they have been recorded in the order of John seeing these Bowl judgments as he walked back in time from the time of the GWTR judgements towards the beginning of the last age.

We must always be open to God's spirit, showing us His truth in the matter of how His ET prophecies will unfold.

With 25 or so years you will see if I am right. Sadly, the possibility of me actually still being alive at that time is not necessarily as high for me as it is for you.

You will know then, who is peddling a load of rubbish at this present time. My posts may be included in that rubbish as well.

Shalom

Actually eg said nothing about revelation or the bowl judgments

please do not put words in my mouth, thank you

 

[Jay Ross]

He actually said his descendents would be given a specific plot of land

here is just one example

gen 15
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

this is just one place, I mean believe what you want I am happy to let you continue to believe as you do, but please know why I can not

Actually this is what he said in Genesis 13:14-17 if it is translated properly: -

Here is my understanding of these verses: -

14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land/earth which you see I give to you and/, {that (entity)} I will give to your descendants forever/for a long period of time {which is at a vanishing point of time in the future}. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land/about the/my earth through its length and its width, for I give it to you/Me to give it to you. "​

Now God then defines the portion of the earth in Genesis 15 that He said that He would give to Abraham's descendants in the future so that they would know that, when they had dominion over that area of the earth, that they would receive the whole earth as their inheritance based on Abraham's question in Gen 15:8: - And he said, "Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?", in the distant future at the end of time as we know it.

Cheering picking scriptures to suit your understanding is wrong if the context of the cherry picked verses do not match your understanding as you have expressed it.

 

[Jay Ross]

Actually eg said nothing about revelation or the bowl judgments

please do not put words in my mouth, thank you

Sorry but you did when you made this statement

rom 11 does not change the fact of what the land is (isreal) it just states when Daniels prophecies concerning the gentiles are complete (when Christ returns to defeat the final empire) all isreal will be saved

Your claim, bolded above in the quote of your post, points to a particular understanding of the Bowl judgements and the order in which they will occur.

The judgement of the kings of the earth at Armageddon will occur in our near future, i.e. within 25 years or so, and the defeat of the final "empire" as you stated will occur after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked, over 1,000 years from now.

Shalom

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually this is what he said in Genesis 13:14-17 if it is translated properly: -

Here is my understanding of these verses: -

14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land/earth which you see I give to you and/, {that (entity)} I will give to your descendants forever/for a long period of time {which is at a vanishing point of time in the future}. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land/about the/my earth through its length and its width, for I give it to you/Me to give it to you. "​

Now God then defines the portion of the earth in Genesis 15 that He said that He would give to Abraham's descendants in the future so that they would know that, when they had dominion over that area of the earth, that they would receive the whole earth as their inheritance based on Abraham's question in Gen 15:8: - And he said, "Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?", in the distant future at the end of time as we know it.

Cheering picking scriptures to suit your understanding is wrong if the context of the cherry picked verses do not match your understanding as you have expressed it.

You asked for proof, I gave it to you (I did not even give yu all the proof) and you continue to deny

I am sorry sir, I can not do this any more, if you can not take Gods word and promises as written, then I can not help you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry but you did when you made this statement



Your claim, bolded above in the quote of your post, points to a particular understanding of the Bowl judgements and the order in which they will occur.

The judgement of the kings of the earth at Armageddon will occur in our near future, i.e. within 25 years or so, and the defeat of the final "empire" as you stated will occur after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked, over 1,000 years from now.

Shalom

Actually no I did not

I spoke of Daniel 2’ when Christ returned to defeat the final genial empire, and Daniel 7 when he came and destroys rome (the second formation of it) and Romans 11 when Paul said when the time of the gentile has been completed (when Christ returns) all isreal will be saved,

please do not put words or beliefs in my mouth, I never mentioned revelations or said a word about what I believe,

 

[Jay Ross]

You asked for proof, I gave it to you (I did not even give yu all the proof) and you continue to deny

I am sorry sir, I can not do this any more, if you can not take Gods word and promises as written, then I can not help you

Actually no I did not

I spoke of Daniel 2’ when Christ returned to defeat the final genial empire, and Daniel 7 when he came and destroys rome (the second formation of it) and Romans 11 when Paul said when the time of the gentile has been completed (when Christ returns) all isreal will be saved,

please do not put words or beliefs in my mouth, I never mentioned revelations or said a word about what I believe,

But EG, I do take God's words as recorded in the Hebrew text as being true. However, I do often question how the translations have been framed to reflect the translators understand which is not always in line with the Hebrew Texts that I believe are true.

Now if you cannot articulate what you meant when you said the following so that the meaning is clear to all who may read it,

rom 11 does not change the fact of what the land is (isreal) it just states when Daniels prophecies concerning the gentiles are complete (when Christ returns to defeat the final empire) all isreal will be saved

Now as for Rome being the a part of either the Daniel 2 or 7 prophetic chapters, then you have no idea as to the identity of the fourth or fifth segment in the statue prophecy. The fourth segment was the nation of Iraq, and the fifth segment of the statue was the Coalition of the Will as confirmed by the historical records and scripture, i.e. Rev 16:17-21, when "great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." in 1926 and the Coalition of the Willing is mentioned in Jer 50:41-51:14.

It should be noted in Jer 50:39 that around 150 BC the Land and cities of Babylon where made desolate and were devastated for a period of around two ages, i.e. around 2,050 years, before it was remembered by the British and the French in 1926 and the nation in the land of Babylon was formed once again.

You infer that you know the scriptures, but their is a lacking in your understanding of the End Time prophecies and as such I doubt that you could help anyone to understand what is written in the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But EG, I do take God's words as recorded in the Hebrew text as being true. However, I do often question how the translations have been framed to reflect the translators understand which is not always in line with the Hebrew Texts that I believe are true.

Now if you cannot articulate what you meant when you said the following so that the meaning is clear to all who may read it,



Now as for Rome being the a part of either the Daniel 2 or 7 prophetic chapters, then you have no idea as to the identity of the fourth or fifth segment in the statue prophecy. The fourth segment was the nation of Iraq, and the fifth segment of the statue was the Coalition of the Will as confirmed by the historical records and scripture, i.e. Rev 16:17-21, when "great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." in 1926 and the Coalition of the Willing is mentioned in Jer 50:41-51:14.

It should be noted in Jer 50:39 that around 150 BC the Land and cities of Babylon where made desolate and were devastated for a period of around two ages, i.e. around 2,050 years, before it was remembered by the British and the French in 1926 and the nation in the land of Babylon was formed once again.

You infer that you know the scriptures, but their is a lacking in your understanding of the End Time prophecies and as such I doubt that you could help anyone to understand what is written in the scriptures.

Shalom

Ok your out there

I will take a pass. But thank you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Josho if you have any more questions please ask. The conversation went out there was not expecting that