Does an experience with God have to be unique?

[aspen]

I had a friend in college that would point out people that he decided were Christians based on the interaction he had with them - 'that checker (grocery store) is a Christian - couldn't you tell by how nice is was?' At every Christian concert I went to as a teenager, somebody would talk about how special the experience was because they could fell God's Spirit - and nothing felt as good as God's Spirit - no secular concert or gathering of people was as good!

It wasn't until later in my life that I heard other groups of people say the same thing about their groups - Mormons talk about a unique 'burning in the bosom' that lets them know that God is talking to them. AA groups talk about their meetings are unique and make claims about how intimate they are - unlike all other groups.

Some Christian Mystics in antiquity have talked about their prayer life as deeper and more unique than other forms of prayer - not to mention, the second baptism teachings of Pentecostal Christians.

So what is the reasoning behind this phenomenon? Is God's presence something unique? Different from all other experiences? Or is it just a bodily reaction to a spiritual experience? According to the Kundiliani video, the Devil tries to imitate the Holy Spirit - is that what is happening? Are we supposed to distrust emotional reactions?

Thoughts?

 

[Rach1370]

I don't know if the devil is intimately involved in some of these things, but clearly we can see that it doesn't take an experience from God to have that 'high'. Just consider: all different religions experience this to some degree or other. We also know that a simple human person can give speeches that inflame others minds and hearts. Look at Hitler...apparently he was a speaker like that, and he managed to whip up such passion that most of Germany committed some of the worst crimes in the history of mankind.

I think it comes down to this; people want to believe in something...they need to believe in something. Let's face it...we were made to be worshippers. People will look to whatever gives them that high...perhaps following others who have gotten a real buzz out of something. Or maybe something gave them a little niggle, and they spend years chasing after a 'better' feeling.

As far as trusting our emotions...it depends. We must always use our minds along with our feelings. God has given us his word for this very reason. If we get a great emotional feeling, an amazing high that you would want to label the presence of God, we can know in that moment if it is true or not, because we have God's word. Does the concert, service, song or speech that inspires the feeling, does it echo biblical truth? Does it give glory and honour to God and God alone? If it does, then we can know that the Holy Spirit is moving in us! If not, we know we are being deceived.

 

[mjrhealth]

The flesh longs to be pleased, basing a Godly experience on emotions is dangerous and foolish though i do it too, and that is why the enemy wins over so many, they think they have found God but just found them selves pleasing themselves. I have experienced Jesus many times but very rarely with any emotion, He just is that how it is. He still loves me even if it doesn't " feel" that way and He is always here with me again even if it doesn't " feel" that way.

In His Love

 

[aspen]

I appreciate both responses - I agree that we were created to worship and since we were separated from God it is natural for us to misdirect this tendency. I also agree that the flesh longs to be pleased in a spiritual manner.

Here is my question - are the emotions more fallen than the mind? Does Jesus redeem our emotions as well as our mind?

 

[elysian]

What's that mean, made to be worshippers.

 

[aspen]

What's that mean, made to be worshippers.

We were originally made (pre-fall) to worship and be in communion with God.

 

[veteran]

Will it be a unique experience? Yes, most definitely.

When God hit me with the urge by The Holy Spirit to study His Word, I engulfed His Word, line upon line, chapter by chapter, and using basic Bible study tools to go into the manuscript languages. That went on for a number of years.

Then one day I entered a certain store on the way to work, a store I'd never been in. I waited in line to check out when it came my turn. A guy in his 30's was behind the register, and there were other folks behind me in line. The guy looked up at me, paused, and started asking me Bible questions out of the blue. I had never met him before that day, didn't even know anything about him, nor did he about me. I stepped aside and let the other folks through, then wrote down places in Scripture where he would find his answers.

I later went back to that store again. I asked him if he had ever heard of me, or seen me before. Said he did not. I then asked him how he thought to ask me Bible questions out of the blue like that, since I could have just as easily been someone that had never read The Bible. He said he was having problems understanding some things in Scripture, and that he had prayed to God for help. He said he knew that God had sent me to him for that purpose.

OK, I later didn't consider the matter much, but kept studying. Then something similar happened again with others I'd never met. And still, every so often, it happens again.

I'd also had an unexplained experience that happened with the 'unction' to engulf God's Word. So personally, I cannot deny God's Hand upon me, His calling me. Others may not believe it, but I personally cannot deny it or it would be as if I never believed in Him. I know many of you here have had some kind of unexplained experience where you 'know' it was God's calling. Doesn't matter if others believe it or not. It's between the individual and God Himself.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi aspen,

Is God's presence something unique? Different from all other experiences?

Yes, if it's the real thing.

Or is it just a bodily reaction to a spiritual experience?

There may be no bodily reaction, even though a very real spiritual change has taken place.

What you saw in the Kundalini video is not 'emotional reactions'; it's people who have yielded control to another spirit, and are, or maybe, having difficulty taking back control. I know someone who has not yet recoverd control from receiving this over ten years ago. Not good.

Are we supposed to distrust emotional reactions?

We cannot rely on emotional reactions to inform us. The Holy Spirit is real and powerful, and works beyond our capacity to comprehend, but, in 1 Corinthians 14:32, Paul states, 'The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets'.

This means that all our behaviour is under our own control - whether we prophesy, pray, praise - or express emotion. But, there are many encounters with God which produce emotion which cannot be contained. The sense of health and well being that accompanies them is an indicator of their source. God only ministers good things (even though we may not see it that way at first.)

There is also the matter of sound doctrine - doctrine being mentioned nearly fifty times in the New Testament - to keep us safe. In other words, if we believe God's word, and it is His voice which is leading us to exercise faith - and it turns out to be an emotional occasion, well, that's all right.

What is not 'all right', is when a suggestion is made which is not in line with sound doctrince, and it has spiritual implications if acted upon. Then, the emotions may be stirred up in an unhealthy way, or, one may feel frightened, or paralysed and unable to walk away. No-one should lay hands on another without asking permission, even if the person has asked for prayer. It is important that the person receiving any kind of ministry, should be able to trust the person who is going to pray for them, or, that situation just militates against the operation of faith with or without emotion.

Emotion of itself - especially if one is communing with God alone - is not necessarily to be distrusted. But if an emotion recurs again and again, asking for expression regardless of relevance, I would be asking whether there was a cause other than the operation of the Holy Spirit - who only points to Jesus Christ in His ministry.

 

[Rach1370]

Here is my question - are the emotions more fallen than the mind? Does Jesus redeem our emotions as well as our mind?

Honestly, I think it an either/or situation. When you think on it, emotions tend to make us feel like we want something, and then our minds try to justify it. Everything in the 'human' needs to be redeemed. We know that until the next life we won't be perfect, so what to do??!
Well, we know that in our 'new birth' Christ has given us a new heart. Basically he has given us a new conscience. As Christians we now know that certain emotional desiring to be wrong...we know it intellectually and we feel it within us, waging war against the desire to do wrong. The freedom of sin comes in when we choose to heed the Spirit's prompting, and turn away from that desire.
Along with that new conscience comes a new desire for the things of God. We no longer live to sin...to gratify ourselves...we live to please God. We have new desires to combat the old ones...desires to read God's word, to despise sin and it's effects on ourselves and all of those around us.
So really, when it comes down to it, I believe that a Christian must let the Holy Spirit work equally on our emotions, minds...from the newness of our hearts. We must also remember that the Spirit doesn't often work in 'big' ways. We don't often get that overwhelming buzz when the Spirit speaks to us. He is often quiet, subtle...and always absolutely right. You can fight that small voice, but when you welcome it and follow it...it may not be a buzz you get...but an amazing sense of calm, wonder and serenity will come over you!

What's that mean, made to be worshippers.

God made us to be worshippers. We long to, at our base level, give our attention, adoration and praise to something. Before the fall, that was naturally God, and all was well. But after the fall, we started to look elsewhere....hence the idols. Many people today think of 'idols' as bronze statues, but an idol can be anything that takes up your time and what you put your self worth in. Could be your job, could be your favourite sport, or sport person....you could even be making your own spouse your idol. When this happens it leads to inevitable ruin, because lets face it, only God is able to live up to 'idol' status! At some point your earthly idol will let you down...and then you will be shattered, because that which you worshipped has proven unworthy. The only safe and sensible thing to do is to put our desire to worship into a relationship and faith with the one who made us this way....Jesus! In him we can rest in knowing that he will never let us down!

 

[IanLC]

God's Holy Spirit is unique. Emotions are feelings tied to this realm to this earth to our flesh. Emotions are God given. god gives us the power to rule over our emotions. Sometimes when we come into contact with the Holy Spirit of God our bodies and mind does not know how to accurately of fully interpret or understand the power of God's Spirit. As a result our emotions come into play. For some they cry, others fall to the ground, others scream and cry out, others roll on the ground, others run, others dance, others just sit a rock. The experience of the Holy Spirit of god is divine and thus unique in itself. The experience of Muslims and other false religions come squarely centered on their emotions and familiar demonic spirits. When the Holy Spirit dwells in you he has influence of flows into/through you. Being brought up Pentecostal i was taught to tarry for the Holy Spirit and that it had to be evidenced by tongues and a sanctified life. Not until began to study myself and seek the wisdom of God did I understand that many traditions they wanted to put on us were just traditions. God giving His Spirit is greater and more unique then what natural expression or bodily response we give. Emotions are natural but a critically tied to us and our expressions of worship to God. But that should be guided by the word of truth which purifies and refines the heart and will, emotions, and soul of man. I do believe strongly that however you express your worship to God (rolling around, speaking in tongues, running, falling out, crying, shouting, wailing, etc) God accepts it from your heart. for He knows the heart of man and judges according to that. We as Pentecostals are group in Christianity that have experienced the Holy Spirit through tongues. We are just a group that expresses ourselves that way. We are not greater or seen higher in the sight of God than our cessaitionist and more traditional brothers in Christ Jesus. We express our worship and experience with the Holy Spirit differently.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I started out early this morning with a reply to the question in the opening post .... then I deleted it ..... then before I went to church today I typed out another reply .... didn't like the sound of it and deleted it also.

I am probably out of context on this whole subject .... but what I wanted to say was that I was a teenager in the 1960's drug culture and I did not partake ....

For some reason I did not fit in with everyone who was experimenting with recreational drugs.

I quizzed some of my friends who were consuming on a regular basis ...... and often they replied "that is the only place they seem to completely fit in" (drug culture etc).

I guess my point is that (in religion) there are many venues where many people "fit in" .... they are at peace .... and feel "one with god" .... whoever their god is ...

So to answer the original question .... I would say no .... these special feelings in circumstances like that are probably not from God.

Yet I will acknowledge that when I became a Christian at about 36 years of age ... and associated with Christians ... it is about the first time in my life that I seemed to "fit in" with others.

I just stated two things that are contradictory ...

If any of you can figure out what I just said .... you are genius ....

Now you know why I deleted some of the others .....


Below are portions of the OP I was trying to reply to.

It wasn't until later in my life that I heard other groups of people say the same thing about their groups - Mormons talk about a unique 'burning in the bosom' that lets them know that God is talking to them. AA groups talk about their meetings are unique and make claims about how intimate they are - unlike all other groups.

 

[Rach1370]

I quizzed some of my friends who were consuming on a regular basis ...... and often they replied "that is the only place they seem to completely fit in" (drug culture etc).

I guess my point is that (in religion) there are many venues where many people "fit in" .... they are at peace .... and feel "one with god" .... whoever their god is ...

One can't help but wonder how long they 'fit in'. It's fairly well known that drug users get more and more destructive as they become more and more addicted. Eventually none of their 'drug' friends mean anything more to them than a possible source of a fix. So while they may initially feel like they fit in, one day it will come crashing down around them....not really a comparison to the faithful wonder of Christ, huh?!

 

[aspen]

I started out early this morning with a reply to the question in the opening post .... then I deleted it ..... then before I went to church today I typed out another reply .... didn't like the sound of it and deleted it also.

I am probably out of context on this whole subject .... but what I wanted to say was that I was a teenager in the 1960's drug culture and I did not partake ....

For some reason I did not fit in with everyone who was experimenting with recreational drugs.

I quizzed some of my friends who were consuming on a regular basis ...... and often they replied "that is the only place they seem to completely fit in" (drug culture etc).

I guess my point is that (in religion) there are many venues where many people "fit in" .... they are at peace .... and feel "one with god" .... whoever their god is ...

So to answer the original question .... I would say no .... these special feelings in circumstances like that are probably not from God.

Yet I will acknowledge that when I became a Christian at about 36 years of age ... and associated with Christians ... it is about the first time in my life that I seemed to "fit in" with others.

I just stated two things that are contradictory ...

If any of you can figure out what I just said .... you are genius ....

Now you know why I deleted some of the others .....


Below are portions of the OP I was trying to reply to.

I know exactly what you are saying and it addresses my OP. Although I have enjoyed reading everyone's ideas on this topic, I think I agree with your post more than any of the others. Admittedly, however, I am still forming my opinion.

It seems to me that the human body was created to react to spiritual things in a certain manner - and regardless of the doctrine or spirituality, humans tend to react in the same way.

Also, as far as emotions are concerned - I think they are just as important as our cognition. I do agree that we cannot rely on how we feel about something to determine truth. I tend to believe that we need to be fully convinced - mind, emotion, and behavior all in agreement before we proceed in faith. My answer to Mormonism is that my emotions are not in agreement with my mind (what I know to be true about history, for example) so I cannot proceed on the path to membership.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have another thought I ponder from time to time ..... it is about folks who are in a false religion of some type .... and yet will speak of having peace ... similar to a Christian saying he has peace.

..... is it possible that Satan .... knowing he has them separated from Christ .... backs off and leaves them "at peace' just to keep them content ?

=======

And on the subject of AA .... I have known many fine and respected people who credit their good lives to AA and .... "turning their problems over to A Higher Power"

"Turning your problems over to a 'higher power' is one of the 12 step of the AA program ..... in my thinking they mean God .... but if I bring up the subject of God or Christ ... often they have no idea what I am talking about.

I have always found that puzzling.

Is God's presence something unique? Different from all other experiences? Or is it just a bodily reaction to a spiritual experience?
Thoughts?

You ask a very good question I have always wondered about as well. Here are a couple of my thoughts ....

I often hear people talk about "being in God's presence" .... I cannot judge what exactly that means to them but my best guess it is more of a personal emotion that surfaces during special times of worship or prayer or something.

I say that because I too , feel emotionally spiritual and close to God during those times .... but I actually feel it is an emotional experience .... and not necessarily that God moved "in closer" for a short time.

I think it is maybe that we move closer to God ... but again .... in an emotional context .

Nothing wrong with emotion .... Love is an emotion .... to Love God is a good emotion .... does that translate to Spiritual ... ???? I do not know.

Here is the reason I feel that way (emotion vs Presence) ..... I have had some profoundly amazing things happen in my 25 years as a Christian .... God has set me up to do many unusual things .... often for another person (often a perfect stranger) .... and I absolutely disliked the whole experience at the time.

Sometime later I learn of the results of my actions and see clearly God had his hand in the whole thing .... and I am humbled ..... but at the time the "Presence of God" seemed a thousand miles away.

I realize I am out of context trying to include "my good works" with "presence of God" ....

.... but after I have been dragged , kicking and screaming , to do "the good works" .... I later realize that God was present .... or at least He set it up .... or got His angels to set it up ... or however He does it.

Maybe later I will give an actual example.

To answer the original question .... I am a mature and solid Christian who has partaken in many simply amazing things set up by The Lord .........but ... NO .... I cannot claim to ever have been "in the Presence of God"

Quite frankly .... I do not even know what the term means.

 

[aspen]

Wow Arnie,

I would love to sit down and have a long conversation with you over coffee. We certainly think about the same topics. I want to spend some time thinking about your post before I respond.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I once had an Independant Southern Baptist preacher as my foreman. He told me about a couple friends of his that wanted to get saved. That Sunday he had an altercall and they prayed etc etc. Later his friends both were concerned and told him "I don't feel any different." the preachers response was, "Well, that's because you didn't get saved."

Ah, so the exprience and emotions and feelings and great overwhelming this or that,,,,, Meh. To tell the truth, I'm mostly unemotional about everything. (Which is why I posted a couple songs, they actually touched me in some way and evoked strong emotions.)

The fact of the matter is, people for the most part are emotional beings. They give us a feeling of tangibility with others, or objects, or even ideals. In order for a person to believe in a truth, many must feel something as confirmation. This is a deception.

Some of us us logic and truth, subjective reasoning, others use mainly objective reasoning and what's called intuition.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Then one day I entered a certain store on the way to work, a store I'd never been in. I waited in line to check out when it came my turn. A guy in his 30's was behind the register, and there were other folks behind me in line. The guy looked up at me, paused, and started asking me Bible questions out of the blue. I had never met him before that day, didn't even know anything about him, nor did he about me. I stepped aside and let the other folks through, then wrote down places in Scripture where he would find his answers.

I think this is an excellent example of "The Holy Spirit in Action" .... and The Lord "using us" for a purpose. I think that is the way it was meant to be.

It is encouraging and confirms that God is working in our lives and He gives us those bits of proof from time to time.

great example.

Wow Arnie,

I would love to sit down and have a long conversation with you over coffee. We certainly think about the same topics. I want to spend some time thinking about your post before I respond.

Likewise , I like long and interesting conversations and LOTS of coffee.

 

[kensapp]

I believe so. An individual's experiences maybe diverse because of the many explorations that he/she has gone through but a real experience with God is different. It is something that is free of insecurities, full of love and kindness both with God and with his/her fellow.