Does Bible Contradict Itself?

[michaelvpardo]

1. Satan's first lie on earth was a half-lie. He did directly contradict God in 'you shall not surely die'. But now the conversation had turned from what God said, to what Eve said, and so as pertaining to 'neither shall you touch it', the serpent was correct that they would not surely die. The devil's subtilty is half-lies and half-truths. If he had just come out and plainly said you will not die for eating it, they would have most likely rebuked him for it.

2. I believe it is all important for believers to understand that the first transgression, Adam's transgression, was proceeded by the first error of ministry. Yes, we are warned not to transgress God's command, but I believe it is clear that much transgression by believers is a direct result of false ministry. False prophets, apostles, teachers, and christs have been the greatest source of destruction in God's house and church, with the most amount of condemnation and warning from God. Afterall, she is called Babylon 'the Great'.

The first half-lie of the devil on earth was preceded by the first half-truth of the woman. The question before them was 'what did God say'. The answer of 'not eat of it, neither touch it' was only half true. One of the two, apparently Eve, added to His commandment 'neither shall you touch it', and the serpent had her. He used her own words against her. She then proceeded to transgress His commandment, not by touching it but by eating it. Why did she eat it in direction contradiction to God's command? Perhaps because she saw there was no death in touching it, and she believed 'not touching it' was part of God's command; therefore she was able to believe God must be lying also about not eating it.

I believe that when Eve reached out to take hold of the fruit, she was testing God's Word on the matter by touching it first. No death there, so no death in eating. That is the real danger of adding our, or others' own personal rules and things to God's Word, as though God actually said it Himself. Afterall, we are supposed to be living by faith in God and His Word. If we believe a lie about His Word, then our faith in Him will be corrupted, and our living for Him will then be corrupt. If we are living by faith...

I call it the sea-saw effect. If you add to, you will take away, because what goes up must come down.

If you believe a literal interpretation of the first two chapters of Genesis, then man and woman were created on the 6th day as in chapter 1, but Adam was created on or before the 3rd day (before any rain, any grasses or trees as in chapter 2) Then in chapter 2 we also find Adam being instructed to avoid the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, before Eve was made from his rib. Nothing in scripture tells us that God repeated the instructions about the garden to Eve, so the assumption would be that it was Adam who passed God's commandment on to eve. When Satan questioned the commandment, he was actually casting doubt upon what Adam said about the commandment. Adam says one thing, Satan says the opposite and Eve was deceived, but Adam received the commandment directly from the Lord and transgressed.

 

[Triumph1300]

The "good woman" argument is over linking the Greek from the NT passages to the Hebrew of Isaiah's prophecy "the virgin shall give birth". Jewish translations use young woman rather than virgin and claim that the word translated doesn't imply virginity.

Are you suggesting this is correct?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Are you suggesting this is correct?

I'm not suggesting anything other than the fact that translations reflect the doctrine of the translators. If the translators have the One who inspired scripture within them, I would be more inclined to trust the translation, but I don't believe that anyone on the planet understands the Bible completely, cover to cover. If we did, we'd be less inclined to fellowship with the "teacher" in biblical study.

 

[Triumph1300]

I'm not suggesting anything other than the fact that translations reflect the doctrine of the translators. If the translators have the One who inspired scripture within them, I would be more inclined to trust the translation, but I don't believe that anyone on the planet understands the Bible completely, cover to cover. If we did, we'd be less inclined to fellowship with the "teacher" in biblical study.

Well, we all know there are haywire translations.
The point is we should be aware of that.
I suggest that the original scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well, we all know there are haywire translations.
The point is we should be aware of that.
I suggest that the original scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

That's the written testimony as it applies to itself. I have however seen some verses from a single translation be interpreted with opposing meanings. Our eyes don't all see the same thing when it comes to spiritual matters and I suppose that must conform to God's purposes or it wouldn't happen. I'd read Exodus more than a dozen times before I spotted an interesting passage. When the Israelites were beginning their crossing between the waters, the Angel of the Lord provided light by the pillar of fire so that they could find their way, but the Egyptians could see nothing but deep darkness.

 

[Daniel Veler]

That would be nice if true, but unfortunately there is no Greek manuscript that can be properly interpreted as did not understand the voice. The Greek word in ALL manuscripts is that for physical hearing only, it can in now way be interpreted to include reasoning about what is heard.

The same Greek word is used in both passages, (9:7, and 22:9). For the translator to be faithful to the manuscripts, he or she would need translate 'understand' at both times. Which is not the case in NIV. To me, the translator purposely tried to avoid any confusion by device of translation. At the very least, they are curiously inconsistent.

I have no axe to grind with translators; however this is one reason why I try to avoid 'going to the Greek' in order to rightly divide the word of truth, especially as pertaining to doctrine and law of God. I would also say it is not necessary to try and find and choose a 'best' or most 'accurate' translation in a given language. However, for sake of consistency and honesty with ourselves, I do believe we ought to choose One translation for ourselves, to be our 'authoritative' answer to such things I mean, do we really want to spend our time 'fishing around' so to speak, until we find the answer we want?

If you will look at both chapters in acts you will see the first account was told by someone but in chapter 22 it was being told by the one there-Paul. It’s not a contradiction at all one did not have the correct account of things while the other did.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Satan's first lie on earth was a half-lie. [/Quote\]

I disagree that Satan's lie was a half-lie, I believe it was a 100% full lie. First Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” This was a 100% full lie, God never said such a thing, God said they couldn't eat from one tree. Next after Eve said to the serpent what God had said she said, "You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” This also was a 100% full lie not a half-lie. At Genesis 2:16,17
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thou shalt surely die. Now it's true that Adam and Eve died on the day that they ate of the forbidden fruit. Some say that the phrase, "in the day," means that Adam and Eve died spiritually speaking when they ate the forbidden fruit and I guess that's possible because after God judged them and threw them out of the Garden of Eden to The True God Adam and Eve were dead, he certainly never said another word to Adam or Eve. Luke 20:37, 38 It's also possible that they did die "in the day" they ate of the forbidden fruit because the scriptures show that to God a day can be a 1000 years and a 1000 years a day Psalms 90:2,4; 2Peter 3:8 since no man has ever lived a thousand years Adam and Eve did die in the day they ate the forbidden fruit.

 

[robert derrick]

If you will look at both chapters in acts you will see the first account was told by someone but in chapter 22 it was being told by the one there-Paul. It’s not a contradiction at all one did not have the correct account of things while the other did.

I refer you to my point that you are now saying Luke was mistaken, which means he did not write Scripture from God, but was only writing hearsay, which means all Bible is not Scripture from God.

So now you can throw out other verses in the Bible as not being inspired Scripture from God, but mistaken ideas from men.

I refuse to do that. All the Bible is Scripture from God, which means the account in Acts 9 is God's account. Remember, Jesus was there too, and He knows exactly what them with Paul heard or didn't hear. Paul could only take their 'word' for it. And since he believed they did not hear any voice, by what they must have told him, then they must have lied to him, because God told Luke to write that they did hear the voice of the Lord...

Simple.

 

[robert derrick]

Satan's first lie on earth was a half-lie. [/Quote\]

I disagree that Satan's lie was a half-lie, I believe it was a 100% full lie. First Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” This was a 100% full lie, God never said such a thing, God said they couldn't eat from one tree. Next after Eve said to the serpent what God had said she said, "You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” This also was a 100% full lie not a half-lie. At Genesis 2:16,17
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thou shalt surely die. Now it's true that Adam and Eve died on the day that they ate of the forbidden fruit. Some say that the phrase, "in the day," means that Adam and Eve died spiritually speaking when they ate the forbidden fruit and I guess that's possible because after God judged them and threw them out of the Garden of Eden to The True God Adam and Eve were dead, he certainly never said another word to Adam or Eve. Luke 20:37, 38 It's also possible that they did die "in the day" they ate of the forbidden fruit because the scriptures show that to God a day can be a 1000 years and a 1000 years a day Psalms 90:2,4; 2Peter 3:8 since no man has ever lived a thousand years Adam and Eve did die in the day they ate the forbidden fruit.

" Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat."
In this light, you are correct. Going from 'you may eat of every tree...' to 'you shall not eat of every tree...'
But the serpent was not asking about what God said they could eat, but what God said they could not eat:

"Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it...'
And so it is a question containing a partial lie...

The main point though is that the devil knew Eve had added to God's Word that 'neither shall you touch it', and so he had them.

The first transgression of man was preceded by the first error of ministry...If we add to God's Commandment and Law, we shall in the end take away from it and transgress it...

 

[robert derrick]

Satan's first lie on earth was a half-lie. [/Quote\]

I disagree that Satan's lie was a half-lie, I believe it was a 100% full lie. First Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” This was a 100% full lie, God never said such a thing, God said they couldn't eat from one tree. Next after Eve said to the serpent what God had said she said, "You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” Then the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” This also was a 100% full lie not a half-lie. At Genesis 2:16,17
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thou shalt surely die. Now it's true that Adam and Eve died on the day that they ate of the forbidden fruit. Some say that the phrase, "in the day," means that Adam and Eve died spiritually speaking when they ate the forbidden fruit and I guess that's possible because after God judged them and threw them out of the Garden of Eden to The True God Adam and Eve were dead, he certainly never said another word to Adam or Eve. Luke 20:37, 38 It's also possible that they did die "in the day" they ate of the forbidden fruit because the scriptures show that to God a day can be a 1000 years and a 1000 years a day Psalms 90:2,4; 2Peter 3:8 since no man has ever lived a thousand years Adam and Eve did die in the day they ate the forbidden fruit.

Adam died when he was 930 years old. (Gen 5)

And so he died to God and His Spirit, which is what Scripture teaches us as being dead in trespasses. And he died that day, if we take Gen 1 literal as 6 days of creation.

Or if we want to symbolize it as 'he began' to die in that day and continued to die for 930 years unto the grave...

 

[Jlentz]

No contradiction....we interpret it wrong.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Exactly. I have been at a place where I was entirely too wrapped up in 'original languages' and 'scholarly' translation debates, etc...

I have seen people dive deep into a greek or hebrew word in a Scripture and come out again with an interpretation of that Scripture that has very little to do with the natural and sensical view of it. Which interpretation just happened to be what the 'scholar' wanted to believe and was trying to force down our throats. (So to speak.)

I find the best translators are unbelieving but objective and true scholars. They dont have an axe of their own to grind. No hidden agenda.

I would call much of language scholarship applied to Scripture by invested believers science falsely so called (1 Tim 6:20). Pseudo scholarship.



Look forward to it. Especially about my last few lines. TO me it's just a logical thing. Maybe something on the Nicolaitans. Nothing is said about them directly in Scripture, but I believe a possible inroad would be looking at Nicolas the proselyte in Acts 6.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 6 - New English Translation


Acts 6 and 7 breaks my heart. Stephen was framed.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

" Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat."
In this light, you are correct. Going from 'you may eat of every tree...' to 'you shall not eat of every tree...'
But the serpent was not asking about what God said they could eat, but what God said they could not eat:

"Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it...'
And so it is a question containing a partial lie...

The main point though is that the devil knew Eve had added to God's Word that 'neither shall you touch it', and so he had them.

The first transgression of man was preceded by the first error of ministry...If we add to God's Commandment and Law, we shall in the end take away from it and transgress it...[/QUOTE\]

I believe that the serpent was asking about what Adam and Eve couldn't eat too. But I think the serpent did it in a deceitful and sly manner because the very first question the serpent asked Eve was, "Did God really say that you must not eat(couldn't eat)from every tree of the garden?” I believe that Satan made it appear that he was shocked when he asked Eve this question by pretending he had heard that the True God had said that Adam and Eve couldn't eat any of the fruit of any of the trees in the Garden, trying to make it appear that the True God was being seriously harsh and restrictive. Which brought up the command that The True God actually commanded to Adam and Eve. First Eve said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden, then she stated the command God told them, "But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die."

As far as adding and subtracting from the scriptures I agree it's wrong to do so. But I do believe it's ok to reason on the scriptures.