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Does God Hate?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by BornAgain, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    You posted "[SIZE=1em]Was not Esau Jacob's brother?—[/SIZE]Have I not shown a greater partiality to the Israelites than I have to the Edomites?"

    So in the context, God was speaking to Israel (not the individuals Jacob and Esau for both had been dead for centuries) and God had partiality, more favor for Israel over Edom. Partiality is more favor not emotional hate, detesting.
     
  2. BornAgain

    BornAgain New Member

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    Yes, the context makes Romans 9:13 clearer....it would be easy when taken out of context to take it in literal terms as I was. I did not make the connection to the "nations" and once the chapters and versus were connected understand God was speaking about nations and not individuals. I was comprehending it in the "predestination" context and knowing that God knows us even before we are born were already convicted of our sins before we had an opportunity to repent, etc.
     
  3. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    The real burning question that's being asked here....and everywhere it seems....is the degree of hate and exactly who is involved.

    The answer is that GOD HATES SINNERS. Pure and simple. Read the Bible. There's a definite pattern there and one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to pick up on it.

    But one does have to be a SINNER to deny it.

    GOD HATES SINNERS WITH A TERRIBLE HATRED.

    THE WRATH OF GOD IS RESERVED FOR ETERNAL UNFORGIVING PUNISHMENT OF THEM.

    The bleached out gospel, straight out of the pit of hell, says that God doesn't hate sinners.....He hates the sin. That gospel was contrived to make salvation easier to swallow. Coat a bad tasting medicine with honey and you might get a child to swallow it, but it doesn't work on hardened scoffers or thinking adults.

    The lake of fire is not reserved for abstract behavior and values. IT IS RESERVED FOR SINNERS. That's a clue, pilgrim. It's a clue as to how God feels about sinners.

    The Bible tells us that God is also merciful and is holding those same sinners up....away from the fires of hell for a short time....to give them a chance to repent and acknowledge God and His righteousness. But that mercy won't last long.

    “Their foot shall slip in due time.”
    - Deut 32:35

    It is therefore urgent for sinners to be made aware of their danger...while mercy lasts for them. Ultimately God will withdraw His protections and they will fall into the flames of His everlasting punishment. God is not eager for man to die, but the denial of His righteousness will result in retribution of a sort that cannot be reversed.

    GOD HATES SINNERS.

    Let's stop making cotton candy gospel proclamations out of a very serious situation. We do sinners no favors by this...and they don't respect us for denying our own God.

    and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  4. Tex

    Tex New Member

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    Yes, God hates. However, you can't think of "hate" like a 21st century westerner. It doesn't mean God wants the worst for him. If that were the case, the passage would read that he "curses" Esau. The Lord and Esau are not buddies, not even close. Esau's ways are not God's ways. They conflict dramatically. They "hate" each other, not that they want to knock each other's teeth in, but in the way the darkness hates the light. Jacob, on the other hand, is also light. They compliment each other. Jacob is a righteous soldier of the Lord, and so God loves him for it.
     
  5. Forsakenone

    Forsakenone Member

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    I can only speak as to what I have seen and heard.

    I have never heard Him say he hates, hated or the such.

    I have seen His mercy, compassion, correction and chastisement.
     
  6. Mr.Bride

    Mr.Bride Active Member

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    Uh, Romans 9:13
     
  7. Forsakenone

    Forsakenone Member

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    So are you trying to say that simply because Romans 9:13 states, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." that your prophesy of scripture that God hates is validated and thus reproves my testimony?

    While I won't presume as to your reason, but I will ask if you care to clarify what was meant by you response.

     
  8. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Your testimony is that you have not heard him say God hates. Now you have heard, because all scripture is god breathed.

    A better question is what will be your response?.
     
  9. Forsakenone

    Forsakenone Member

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    All I have heard is your presumption that God hates because you think it is written that God hates then therefore God hates. Much the same you presume I have heard when I have not heard.

    Do you presume that Ham observed Noah without clothes because of what is written in Genesis 9:22
    And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
     
  10. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    I did presume to hope that you can hear, I'm sorry.
     
  11. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    Iforrest did not presume anything. He actually provided Biblical proof. What would you like to do with the following?

    Psa 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.

    Psa 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.

    Lev 20:23 And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.

    Pro 6:16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
    Pro 6:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    Pro 6:18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
    Pro 6:19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

    Hos 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more; all their princes are rebels.
     
  12. Forsakenone

    Forsakenone Member

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    Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.


    But Romans says it is written God hated. In Matthew 4:4 it is written that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedth from the mouth of God.
    No man hath seen the Father at any time save him who is of God he hath seen the Father. And there are three in Heaven which bear witness, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one. And God gave his only begotten Son that whosever should believe in Him should not perish.

    So in conclusion, John 10:27.
     
  13. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    What are you waiting for then, get out your scissors and start cutting. Or do you actually believe the bible is God's word?

    I know someone that always complains that the Devil is in the details. When it comes to perceived conflicts in scripture the truth can actually be found in the details.
     
  14. Forsakenone

    Forsakenone Member

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    John 3:16-17
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Then what???



    Then live by ever Word written in the Bible if that is your faith.

    And I will live by His Word. Deut 8:3

    that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by
    every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
     
  15. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    The very verse you quoted says "every word." Would you take his mana and spit some of it back out at his feat because one peace didn't taste sweet?
     
  16. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    There's nothing controversial about the fact that God hates, except in the minds of those who are looking for an excuse to continue to live in their sin and rebellion. God loves righteousness and hates sin. He hates it. Get it? God will love or hate according to His own design and none can condemn Him for it.

    GOD HATES SINNERS.

    The Bible is very clear on this. It isn't some abstract notion of misbehavior that's thrown into hell, it's sinners. Got it?

    "The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God."
    - Prov. 1:7a

    The above verse is quoted often, but the second half of the same verse is neglected. Read it now.....

    "Fools despise wisdom and knowledge."
    - Prov 1:7b

    It is therefore prudent to observe Biblical testimony and personal experience of God's actions which tell us that God does indeed get angry. He gets VERY angry. God cannot and will not tolerate sin and rebellion and hypocrisy for long. But righteousness also recognizes that God does not willingly desire the destruction of anyone. Therefore He has provided an escape in the blood of Jesus Christ. Those that accept the lordship of Christ and His blood are granted the second birth and are washed clean of their sins. They are justified before God.

    Those who are justified are sinners no more and are not subject to the second death.

    Make no mistake, God is jealous of righteousness. American society is now so debauched that most cannot understand the concept of righteousness and look for some other excuse and reason to continue in their sin. Even those who profess to be Christians believe they've got a license to sin. BUT NO MORE. Judgment begins in the house of God and Christians will be judged first. The terrible wrath of God is now being visited upon America for its sins and wickedness.

    Run, do not walk, from the wrath which is even now being poured out upon America and the world. Accept the mercy of God in the name of Christ Jesus while it is still offered. God hates sinners and will judge. Make no mistake.

    IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

    and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I tend to think that we will have to apologize to God for blaming Him for all the human reasoning we placed on Him for the destruction of S&G, numerous genocides, and the little incident of the flood. People who believe that God's sovereignty must be preserved at the cost of goodness, mercy, and love, must have missed what Jesus was talking about. That is understandable for people living in OT times - not for us, not after we know and love Jesus and spend our lives obeying Him by serving others
     
  18. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    There's a story of the Prophet Elisha that amply demonstrates God's Old Testament mercy. The king of Syria made war with Israel with an army that greatly outmatched Israelite defenses. But as the armies approached, Elisha prayed and the armies were struck with blindness. The blinded army was led into Samaria whereupon they regained their sight. They were not killed, in fact, they were treated kindly, fed, and turned back unharmed.

    The problem is that Bible illiteracy is widespread, so much so that they myth persists that God in the Old Testament was about judgment, wrath, and bloodshed, but Jesus was about peace and loving one's neighbor. People who know very little about the Bible perpetuate this myth and, in my opinion, Christians who should know better render credence to it. Even as the Law was given to Moses, we're invited to tune into particular aspects of it, how the oxen was not made to tread while muzzled, how the stranger and the alien were to be treated kindly, how sanctuary cities were provided for those guilty of accidental manslaughter to escape the revenge of the family, how the poor were allowed to glean during harvest time, and how the captives were set free in the year of Jubilee. At every step, God's law was tempered with mercy, making provision for the alien, the poor, the fatherless, the oppressed.

    How people come to believe that Jesus is somehow different than the God of the Old Testament to the point of having very different personalities demonstrates the effectiveness of Satan's deception. God has always been the God of love, full of mercy, slow to anger, and not wishing anyone to perish.

    I pray people could see through the deception and come to know who God really is.
     
    lforrest likes this.
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Jesus is One with God the Father; pretending that I've said anything differently is willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty
     
  20. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Yes, God hates that which is bad, for Psalms 97 says: "O you who love Jehovah, hate what is bad." How can our Maker, Jehovah God, be righteous and not hate what is bad ? Good and bad are two opposing sides. The apostle Paul wrote: "For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have ? Or what sharing does light have with darkness ?"(2 Cor 6:14)


    Lawlessness and righteousness are diametrically opposed to each other. Of Jesus, as one who mirrors God perfectly, Paul wrote that Jesus "is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being", in which it was said of him that "you loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”(Heb 1:3, 9)


    Esau came to be hated by God for his lack of love and spirituality; his detesting anything righteous. He was willing to sell his birthright for a bowl of stew.(Gen 25-27-34) Afterward, when Isaac blessed Jacob who rightly held the right as firstborn, and then upon Esau finding out, threatened to kill Jacob after their father died, showing his true colors.(Gen 27:41) Isaac foretold that Esau would be a violent man, telling him that "by your sword you will live."(Gen 27:40)


    In addition, Esau rejected the sound counsel to marry only those who loved Jehovah (see 1 Cor 7:39, whereby Paul said that a loyal Christian is to 'marry only in the Lord' ), as his grandfather, Abraham had done for Isaac his son.(Gen 24:3, 4)


    Esau therefore chose two wives from among the Canaanites, a nation that was morally filthy and extremely bloodguilty and of which his mother Rebekah therefore said: "I am disgusted with my life because of the daughters of Heth (that Esau married from among the Canaanites). If Jacob ever takes a wife from the daughters of Heth, like these daughters of the land, what good is my life ?”(Gen 27:46)


    Hence, the apostle Paul said to avoid "anyone who does not appreciate sacred things, like Esau, who gave up his rights as firstborn in exchange for one meal. For you know that afterward when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for although he earnestly tried to bring about a change of mind with tears, it was to no avail."(Heb 12:16, 17) Esau proved to be unteachable by God, whereas Jacob deeply appreciated spiritual things. Two brothers, but going in opposite directions. Jacob will be resurrected whereas Esau has no such hope, but remaining permanently dead.


    At Malachi 1, it says: "Was not E′sau the brother of Jacob ?” declares Jehovah. “But I loved Jacob, and E′sau I hated; and I made his mountains desolate and left his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.”(Mal 1:2, 3) All who are like Esau (who hated Jehovah God), devoid of agape love and any spirituality, who think only of themselves, fleshly, are headed for the same destiny, of being wiped off the face of the earth in the near future, at Armageddon.(Rev 16:14, 16)


    However, now is the time to do as Isaiah 55 says: "Search for Jehovah while he may be found. Call to him while he is near."(Isa 55:6) The apostle Paul wrote to the Roman Christians, quoting from Joel 2:32: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13)


    So in contrasting "children in the flesh" (like Esau) with "children of God" (those who are teachable, willing to adhere to all of God's moral laws and guidelines as found in the Bible, Rom 9:8), Paul wrote: "Just as it is written (at Mal 1:2, 3): “I loved Jacob, but E′sau I hated.”(Rom 9:13)
     
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