Does God Hate?

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aspen

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Jacob tricked Esau out of his birthright and then blamed the victim. This story is not a moral story. It is what happened and was recorded truthfully - we are not called to emulate Jacob or Esau, both acted immorally. The story is about God's sovereignty - it happened the way it did, because it happened that way and people had to explain it. They saw that Esau lost out so he must be hated by God and Jacob seemed to win so he must be favored.

It seems like we enjoy the idea that since the OT is inspired by God that the people who wrote it must have had a bigger understanding and a bigger picture of God than we do. It is not true - the were fighting to understand how God works as much as we do.

The fact is, we are incapable of hating and fearing anyone AND loving them in a healthy manner. Between abusive parents and abuse children, it cannot work. Between kidnapper and victim it is called Stockholm Syndrome and is totally unhealthy. We are not God's victims - we are His children who have such a distorted view of Him that we think we are supposed to fear Him AND Love Him. God loves everyone and wants us to love Him back.
 

aspen

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This Vale Of Tears said:
Who are you talking too? That better not be me.
Why are you threatening me? My comment is an appropriate response to your veiled accusation that people with opinions like I expressed in the post you commented about, do not 'understand the Bible' and believe that the 'God of the OT is different than the God of the NT'. Once again if you are suggesting that I believe Jesus is a different God than the Father, you are being willfully ignorant and intellectually dishonest. The reason I believe this about you is because I have clearly stated that the writers of the OT were the people who explained God's character according to their own cultural norms, and sometimes they maligned His character based on what they reasoned to be true. This has nothing to do with The Father being a different God than the Son - and I think you know it.
 

This Vale Of Tears

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aspen said:
Why are you threatening me? My comment is an appropriate response to your veiled accusation that people with opinions like I expressed in the post you commented about, do not 'understand the Bible' and believe that the 'God of the OT is different than the God of the NT'. Once again if you are suggesting that I believe Jesus is a different God than the Father, you are being willfully ignorant and intellectually dishonest. The reason I believe this about you is because I have clearly stated that the writers of the OT were the people who explained God's character according to their own cultural norms, and sometimes they maligned His character based on what they reasoned to be true. This has nothing to do with The Father being a different God than the Son - and I think you know it.
That post was not at odds with what you were saying. Quite the opposite, it was affirming your post. Try reading it again and stop being so defensive.
 

aspen

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I still do not see you supporting what I said, but it trust your last post so I believe you. I apologize for being defensive.
 

This Vale Of Tears

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aspen said:
I still do not see you supporting what I said, but it trust your last post so I believe you. I apologize for being defensive.
You and I both agree that God has been loving and merciful in both the Old and New Testament. I've seen this from your previous posts. Even in the case of S&G which you referred to, you argued that people draw the wrong lessons from the destruction of those cities and I agree. A little mystic gem in reading this account is when the angel told Lot that God would destroy the cities because of the outcry of their neighbors. God tolerated their homosexuality, but God did not tolerate their lawless raids on neighboring towns and villages, demonstrating that God draws the line when we set out to visit harm on our fellow man.

I think I'm so adversarial to you that you assumed I was here too. I'm sorry about that.
 

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Once again I feel it necessary to reiterate that GOD HATES SINNERS.

Second to state that the worldly culture in general has seen fit to relegate the fear of God to the waste bin of history. In effect, this attitude attempts to kill the God of righteousness and extinguish the flames of hell. The result is to justify sin and give license to it - in the name of love.

But if the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, as the proverb teaches - then what is the debauchery of the fear of God but the beginning of foolishness and sin and death?

There is no such limitless love of God expressed in the Bible. Anywhere. It is true that those who justify sin and wickedness do so in the name of love and can quote numerous scriptures using them as slogans, but it is not the point and context of scripture. It is said that figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Similarly, scripture doesn't lie, but liars can quote scripture.

In point of truth God loves righteousness and is very jealous of it. He destroyed Israel and Judah, the world of Noah and he ejected Adam and Eve from the land of God because of it. Jesus said that He didn't come to replace the law, but to fulfill it. If that is true, then the ultimate purpose of His ministry and sacrifice was to fulfill righteousness....to offer sinners a way to be justified before God the Father.

The gospel of love wins no one to Christ these days. The gospel of the cross and the blood Jesus shed to avoid the wrath of God is that which saves. To dilute the true message of the imminent wrath of God upon SINNERS, is to commit the gravest sin in the book - to call God a liar when He said He would damn the soul that sins.

Salvation is not license to sin. It is not universal and it is not based upon love. The salvation of love is, however, sold by every snake oil salesman since the world began, and as PT Barnum once said, "there's a sucker born every minute."

If GOD HATES SINNERS, as the Bible says He does, then the next logical step to be taken is to repent of one's sin and beg forgiveness and salvation.

But nobody really wants to do that. Everyone would rather rely upon human efforts to justify human sin by means of love - any way they can do it.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Guestman

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Once again I feel it necessary to reiterate that GOD HATES SINNERS.

Second to state that the worldly culture in general has seen fit to relegate the fear of God to the waste bin of history. In effect, this attitude attempts to kill the God of righteousness and extinguish the flames of hell. The result is to justify sin and give license to it - in the name of love.

But if the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, as the proverb teaches - then what is the debauchery of the fear of God but the beginning of foolishness and sin and death?

There is no such limitless love of God expressed in the Bible. Anywhere. It is true that those who justify sin and wickedness do so in the name of love and can quote numerous scriptures using them as slogans, but it is not the point and context of scripture. It is said that figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Similarly, scripture doesn't lie, but liars can quote scripture.

In point of truth God loves righteousness and is very jealous of it. He destroyed Israel and Judah, the world of Noah and he ejected Adam and Eve from the land of God because of it. Jesus said that He didn't come to replace the law, but to fulfill it. If that is true, then the ultimate purpose of His ministry and sacrifice was to fulfill righteousness....to offer sinners a way to be justified before God the Father.

The gospel of love wins no one to Christ these days. The gospel of the cross and the blood Jesus shed to avoid the wrath of God is that which saves. To dilute the true message of the imminent wrath of God upon SINNERS, is to commit the gravest sin in the book - to call God a liar when He said He would damn the soul that sins.

Salvation is not license to sin. It is not universal and it is not based upon love. The salvation of love is, however, sold by every snake oil salesman since the world began, and as PT Barnum once said, "there's a sucker born every minute."

If GOD HATES SINNERS, as the Bible says He does, then the next logical step to be taken is to repent of one's sin and beg forgiveness and salvation.

But nobody really wants to do that. Everyone would rather rely upon human efforts to justify human sin by means of love - any way they can do it.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
God does not necessarily hate sinners, but rather the sin that they commit. Jesus told Nicodemus: "For God loved the world (those who are alienated from God) so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16)

Hence, our Maker, Jehovah God, has deep love for mankind and gave his "only-begotten Son"(or was fathered by God) for those who would in time "exercise faith" in him, but does hate those who intentionally lie about him, such as the religious leaders of Christendom as a group (not as individuals), called "the man of lawlessness" at 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

At Matthew 21, Jesus was tested by the Jewish religious leaders, asking concerning his "works": "By what authority do you do these things ? And who gave you this authority ?"(Matt 21:23) Jesus knew their intention was wicked, for they could see the blind and lame people that were cured by him, but rejected it as coming from God.(Matt 21:14, 15; see also John 9 concerning the man born blind and the Jewish religious leaders response at verses 24 and 29)

So Jesus said to the Jewish religious leaders: "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God (all who are truly sinners). For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him, and even when you saw this, you did not feel regret afterward so as to believe him."(Matt 21:31, 32)

So, in the illustration that he next gave, he lays out the fact that the Jewish religious leaders as a group would see "a terrible destruction on them" in the future.(Matt 21:41, which proved true when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E.) These proved to be God's enemies, so that Jehovah had a right to hate them.

But "the tax collectors and the prostitutes" accepted Jesus as the Messiah and changed their personality, their habits, to "strip off the old personality and clothe (themselves) with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge (of the Bible) is being made new according to the image of the One who created it."(Col 2:9, 10)

The Jewish religious leaders, on the other hand, rejected Jesus despite his "powerful works", including resurrecting Lazarus from the dead, and then sought to kill both Lazarus and Jesus.(John 11:47, 53; 12:10) They showed their wickedness, deserving of God's hate or wrath.

So, God's wrath remains upon those who willfully promote lies about him (yes, they know what they teach is wrong, but teach false religious doctrines anyway so as to "tickle" the ears of others, 2 Tim 4:3), who prove unwilling up to "the day of Jehovah" to share the "Kingdom" with others (see Matt 25:24-30 concerning the "sluggish slave" who buried his talent and was severely chastised by the "master") despite calling themselves "Christian", who continue to be obstinate despite efforts to reach such ones with "the good news of the Kingdom."(Matt 24:14)

Jesus said that "the one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."(John 3:36)
 

FHII

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I'm not going to read all the responses. I'm just going to say that the Bible makes much more sense if you read it carefully and believe every (EVERY) word and just accept it as Truth over human understanding. That's the bottom line. and yes. God hated Esau and everything he produced after. Without grace, no one from his linage is saved. Of course, that goes for Jacob's line too.
 

logabe

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First of all let's realize that God's hatred and man's carnal hatred are two very different
entities. God's hatred is constructive and corrective while man's definition of hatred is
very destructive.

Paul was establishing God's sovereignty in chapter nine of Romans. What we tend to
forget is Jacob and Esau was contending for the birthright. God in His sovereignty was
actually protecting Esau's rights under the legal sense of the birthright.

Everybody in the Old Testament knew that the birthright went to the firstborn which
was Esau. The firstborn was disqualified only when he had shown his father he was
unworthy by his actions ( 1st Chronicles 5:1-2 ). Thus, legally God had to protect him
by making him a hated son ( Deut. 21:15-17 ). Meaning that one day Esau would have
the chance to prove himself worthy or unworthy of the birthright. Gen. 27:40 says,

40 "By your sword you shall live, And your brother you shall
serve; But it shall come about when you become restless,
That you will break his yoke from your neck."

Does God hate our actions when we mistreat our brothers and sisters without respect?
Sure He does, but He also loves us enough to bring judgment into our lives to correct
our short comings so we can produce good fruit for the masters use.

My point is, God hates sin because of what it does to the one that is participating in the
act of disobedience, but He loves the sinner. So Esau was actually chosen to be the hated
son by God's own choice and thus God established His sovereignty in this story.

Why? Because it wasn't about being saved as most Christians think, but it was about being
a ruler in the ages to come. God showed us in His sovereignty that both were unworthy and
unfit to rule in their canal state. So now it is for whosoever will let him come to see if we
are worthy to receive the birthright by learning that God is sovereign.

When Jacob was attacked by an angel, God changed his name to Israel (God rules ). Thus,
the next day Esau was coming with 400 men to kill Jacob, but Jacob told Esau, I see God in
your face ( Gen. 33:10 ). In other words, Jacob knew God was behind the whole scenario
and God even controls our so called enemies.

What do you see? The devil in your enemies or do you see God in His sovereignty behind the
scene in your journey into the Promised Land. God loves you and He is on your side in every
trial and tribulation that you might have to go through. I was told that God would bring you
to the edge and grab you before you jump. God came to my edge and pushed me off the cliff
and thank God He did. Did He hate me? I thought He did, but now I know He loves me.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 

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Choir Loft
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Guestman said:
God does not necessarily hate sinners, but rather the sin that they commit. Jesus told Nicodemus: "For God loved the world (those who are alienated from God) so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16)

Hence, our Maker, Jehovah God, has deep love for mankind and gave his "only-begotten Son"(or was fathered by God) for those who would in time "exercise faith" in him, but does hate those who intentionally lie about him, such as the religious leaders of Christendom as a group (not as individuals), called "the man of lawlessness" at 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

At Matthew 21, Jesus was tested by the Jewish religious leaders, asking concerning his "works": "By what authority do you do these things ? And who gave you this authority ?"(Matt 21:23) Jesus knew their intention was wicked, for they could see the blind and lame people that were cured by him, but rejected it as coming from God.(Matt 21:14, 15; see also John 9 concerning the man born blind and the Jewish religious leaders response at verses 24 and 29)

So Jesus said to the Jewish religious leaders: "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God (all who are truly sinners). For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him, and even when you saw this, you did not feel regret afterward so as to believe him."(Matt 21:31, 32)

So, in the illustration that he next gave, he lays out the fact that the Jewish religious leaders as a group would see "a terrible destruction on them" in the future.(Matt 21:41, which proved true when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E.) These proved to be God's enemies, so that Jehovah had a right to hate them.

But "the tax collectors and the prostitutes" accepted Jesus as the Messiah and changed their personality, their habits, to "strip off the old personality and clothe (themselves) with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge (of the Bible) is being made new according to the image of the One who created it."(Col 2:9, 10)

The Jewish religious leaders, on the other hand, rejected Jesus despite his "powerful works", including resurrecting Lazarus from the dead, and then sought to kill both Lazarus and Jesus.(John 11:47, 53; 12:10) They showed their wickedness, deserving of God's hate or wrath.

So, God's wrath remains upon those who willfully promote lies about him (yes, they know what they teach is wrong, but teach false religious doctrines anyway so as to "tickle" the ears of others, 2 Tim 4:3), who prove unwilling up to "the day of Jehovah" to share the "Kingdom" with others (see Matt 25:24-30 concerning the "sluggish slave" who buried his talent and was severely chastised by the "master") despite calling themselves "Christian", who continue to be obstinate despite efforts to reach such ones with "the good news of the Kingdom."(Matt 24:14)

Jesus said that "the one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."(John 3:36)
If the above quoted post is to be understood correctly it is sin that is cast into hell and not any particular person or personality.

Not a SINNER, not a demon and certainly not satan itself. Really?

Will the saints be giving satan hugs and kisses when one and all arrive in heaven together?

This fetid idea reeks of the same stench that issues from the pit of hell.

***

The context of scripture is quite definite. God does indeed hate SINNERS.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
- Jesus Matt 7:13

In this statement does Jesus say "not necessarily" destruction or is it absolute? Or perhaps the Son of God doesn't know what He's talking about when He said such a thing?

Indeed, the tendency of the church and for those who have been corrupted by society is to claim that God, like them, is no longer concerned with matters of justice and injustice, morality or immorality, SIN or righteousness.

Criminals are thrown into prison for their crimes.

You can visit every jail in the world and you will never see a crime kept there. People are kept in jail.
​The same is true for hell. There is no such thing as sin in hell. There ARE people there !!! Sin and crime are abstract terms used to describe what people DO.

And having DONE wickedly, they are punished for their crimes. Is there no responsibility considered in the dilute gospel of today in America? If so, then nobody has a responsibility to give one iota of credence to anything the Bible says. I don't believe that for one minute.

God hates SINNERS, therefore the onus is upon the sinner to come clean - to confess his sin before God and to repent of it. Having done that with all due sincerity and diligence God is faithful and just to forgive the sin BUT NOT UNLESS REPENTED. Anyone who acknowledges that God isn't angry about sin is literally in league with the devil itself and is doing himself a disservice. Even worse, such a person is making others twice as fit for hell as he is himself.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Angelina

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Psalms 11
The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

Proverbs 6
16 These six things the Lord hates,Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.


Isaiah 1
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates;They are a trouble to Me,I am weary of bearing them.
When you spread out your hands,I will hide My eyes from you; Even though you make many prayers,I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood. 16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil,


Malachi 1:3
But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”

Romans 9:13
As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Malachi 2:16
“For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one’s garment with violence,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously.”

Revelation 2:6
But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Revelation 2:15
Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
 

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Choir Loft
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BornAgain said:
I have trouble with this scripture and not to doubt God's Word would like some insight into why this scripture was written and if God truly does hate, prior to one even being born. Does He hate all sinners that He does not approve or disapprove prior to conception or birth?

Romans 9:13 (KJV)
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Absolutely God hates. God hates the sinner. He has prepared the fires of eternal hell for them.

Hell is not reserved for some abstract condition or nebulous 'force'. Hell has been prepared for sinners because God hates them.

it is written that God loves righteousness and hates sin. Those that love rebellion, darkness and sin will NOT be allowed in God's presence. Ever.

Harsh words? Not at all. Realistic ones is more like it.

God is just. He is not fair.

This means that God does not make decisions based on a curve. God makes judgments based upon the individual and what he has done or not done.

Judging on a curve is fair. Humans do it all the time to excuse ineptitude in school. The American educational system today is less efficient than that of most third world countries - but its fair. All our students are treated equally - even the stupid ones. But God does not judge on a curve.

God judges by what a man does. The criminal who steals from the little old lady goes to jail. The CEO who steal from banks and accounts is rewarded fairly for his good business practice. This is why America is in trouble. We have turned our back upon God and the reality of justice.

Today's American is more concerned about happiness and fairness than justice or God's law. As a result, Americans are unable to grasp the concept of a righteous angry god. Yet the Bible doesn't pull its punches. It says plainly and simply that God hates and that He hates sinners.

It is wise, therefore, for the condemned to seek peace with God who has provided an advocate in the name of Jesus Christ. There is forgiveness, but only a just one. God will NOT forgive everyone. Neither will He bless a nation that continually and constantly hates Him as we have done. God hates the sinner and that's a fact.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

logabe

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Angelina said:
Malachi 2:16
“For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one’s garment with violence,” Says the Lord of hosts.
Hummm... that must be a mistake. Jer. 3:8 says,

8 "And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had
sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous
sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.

Just another scripture showing that our hate and God's hate is two different things. God hates for a
purpose, but man hates for carnal destruction. God's hate is spiritual while man's hate is carnal. Just
read the posts and you can see what I am talking about. It's very easy to see the difference if you are
looking for it.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 

JimParker

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I think the key to the answer to the question, Does God hate?" is John 3:16.

God did absolutely everything, including to submitting to the brutal murder of Roman crucifixion, in order that anyone who wished to be saved could simply ask and salvation would be given. (Like the thief on the cross)

In the Orthodox church, in our hymns, we often refer to God as the "lover of mankind."

Does God hate?

I think he hate's it when His children choose hell instead of heaven.