Does God need man?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wick Stick

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2023
587
421
63
44
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you find yourself that critical of most churches you attend, why not pastor one yourself?
About 15 years ago we held a church out of our home and a few other families.

Unless you're very top-down authoritative, this does not lead to doctrinal unity. Top-down and authoritative was what we all were trying to get away from, anyway.

It turns out that it's fine to disagree on some doctrines. Healthy, even. There are some that are essential, though. Like, if you don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God, are you even a Christian?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlessedPeace

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,864
7,760
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Whoever created the option of choice, whenever the option of choice was created, and wherever the option of choice was created, why was it created?

For what purpose is the option of choice?
Respect never controls the other....... inherent is free choice.
Satan chose his course without coercion. Adam chose his course
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Respect never controls the other....... inherent is free choice.
Satan chose his course without coercion. Adam chose his course

I like your point about it being inherent. God created man with potential. The potential is developed either positively (good) or negatively (evil). I think this inherent condition of free will is the best explanation of God saying that he creates evil.

God has said that he wants all men to be saved. All men, however, will not be saved. That’s man’s fault, not God’s.

God has a plan to save man. What does God need man to do in order for man to be saved by God?

Nothing? Hardly.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
God doesn’t need man and God does need man.

Can we accept this as only an apparent contradiction rather than a true contradiction?

Some of us can, some of us can’t and some of us haven’t given it much thought.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
About 15 years ago we held a church out of our home and a few other families.

Unless you're very top-down authoritative, this does not lead to doctrinal unity. Top-down and authoritative was what we all were trying to get away from, anyway.

It turns out that it's fine to disagree on some doctrines. Healthy, even. There are some that are essential, though. Like, if you don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God, are you even a Christian?
In my view,no.
Because it destroys the whole point of the reason Jesus was born.

Some traditions teach he was a man gifted by God. Man,alone. Not of divine birth.
It is impossible to even debate scripture from that false foundation.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew 6:10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

God is Omnipotence,Sovereign,and Omniscient.

How does God's will manifest his plans if God gives mans will the ability to change its direction?

God is not needy. He does not need man. Rather man was created as part of God's plans.

Ephesians 2:10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Restorationism, also known as Restitutionism or Christian primitivism, is a religious perspective according to which the early beliefs and practices of the followers of Jesus were lost or adulterated after his death and required "restoration".[1][2][3] It is a view that often "seeks to correct faults or deficiencies (in other branches of Christianity) by appealing to the primitive church as normative model".[1]: 635 

Efforts to restore an earlier, purer form of Christianity are often a response to denominationalism. As Rubel Shelly put it, "the motive behind all restoration movements is to tear down the walls of separation by a return to the practice of the original, essential and universal features of the Christian religion."[4]: 29  Different groups have tried to implement the restorationist vision in a variety of ways; for instance, some have focused on the structure and practice of the church, others on the ethical life of the church, and others on the direct experience of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.[1]: 635–638  The relative importance given to the restoration ideal, and the extent to which the full restoration of the early church is believed to have been achieved, also varies among groups.

More narrowly, the term "Restorationism" describes unrelated Restorationist groups during the era of the Second Great Awakening, such as the Christadelphians (Greek: 'Brothers of Christ'), Swedenborgians (i.e., The New Church), Irvingians (the largest of which is the New Apostolic Church), Latter Day Saints (i.e., Mormonism), Jehovah's Witnesses (from the tetragrammaton for God), La Luz del Mundo (Spanish: 'the Light of the World'), and Iglesia ni Cristo (Tagalog: 'Church of Christ').[5][6][7][8] In this sense, Restorationism has been regarded as one of the six taxonomic groupings of Christianity: the Church of the East, Oriental Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Restorationism.[9][10] These Restorationist groups share a belief that historic Christianity lost the true faith during the Great Apostasy and that the Church needed to be restored.[11][12]

The term has been used to refer to the Stone–Campbell Movement in the United States,[2]: 225–226  and has been also used by more recent groups, describing their goal to re-establish Christianity in its original form, such as some anti-denominational Charismatic Restorationists, which arose in the 1970s in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.[13][14
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
“The Lord has need of it” vs. “the Lord has need of nothing”.

Only an apparent contradiction, I suggest.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 17:
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[b] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
“The Lord has need of it” vs. “the Lord has need of nothing”.

Only an apparent contradiction, I suggest.

A deity who doesn’t need to follow his plan in order to follow his plan would be an incredible being indeed.

But as Jesus said, “The Lord has need of it.” It is, after all, a crucial part of the plan.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A deity who doesn’t need to follow his plan in order to follow his plan would be an incredible being indeed.

But as Jesus said, “The Lord has need of it.” It is, after all, a crucial part of the plan.
That has no relevance to the scripture posted.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
You will always be in error when attempting to renounce scripture with your own "logic".

“We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps.” Proverbs 16:9

I’m not using my own logic, nor am I renouncing scripture. I’m quoting Jesus and provided the scriptural reason why he needed it.

And then there are the other Christians (Catholic and Protestant) whom I’ve quoted. You’re also accusing them of what you’re accusing me.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I’m not using my own logic, nor am I renouncing scripture. I’m quoting Jesus and provided the scriptural reason why he needed it.

And then there are the other Christians (Catholic and Protestant) whom I’ve quoted. You’re also accusing them of what you’re accusing me.
No.

You think we don't see it but it becomes obvious after awhile.

You look to use scripture, with errant understanding of it,so to contradict scripture and claim it is Jesus who did so.

"I’m quoting Jesus and provided the scriptural reason why he needed it."
False.
Go ahead with your agenda.
It is your choice.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
No.

You think we don't see it but it becomes obvious after awhile.

You look to use scripture, with errant understanding of it,so to contradict scripture and claim it is Jesus who did so.

"I’m quoting Jesus and provided the scriptural reason why he needed it."
False.
Go ahead with your agenda.
It is your choice.

Anyone who bothers to read my posts will see for themselves that what I said is true.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Not if they respect God's word.

Whether they respect God’s word or not, anyone who reads my posts will see for themselves that what I said is true.

They will also see the same is true in the other Christians I’ve quoted.

Wouldn’t it be wiser to simply say that you respectfully disagree with those Christians than to accuse them of not respecting God’s word?
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,805
2,916
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whether they respect God’s word or not, anyone who reads my posts will see for themselves that what I said is true.
Already addressed.
They will also see the same is true in the other Christians I’ve quoted.

Wouldn’t it be wiser to simply say that you respectfully disagree with those Christians than to accuse them of not respecting God’s word?
There's a logic fallacy that defines your defense.

And no, I'm addressing you and your tactics.
Not other Christian writers whom you may have borrowed from,without credit,and reworked their intellectual property so to posit it as your own.

Christians have a higher regard for God than what you demonstrate in your presentations.

I'll never convict you to mature and renounce your agenda here.
Only God can do that.
 
Last edited:

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,387
4,501
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Already addressed.

There's a logic fallacy that defines your defense.

And no, I'm addressing you and your tactics.
Not other Christian writers whom you may have borrowed from,without credit,and reworked their intellectual property so to posit it as your own.

Christians have a higher regard for God than what you demonstrate in your presentations.

I'll never convict you to nature and renounce your agenda here.
Only God can do that.

I’ve properly credited every Christian (and non-Christian) whom I’ve quoted. In addition, I’ve provided links to the sources I’ve quoted, when possible.

I don’t understand your failure to grasp that when you accuse someone over something they’ve said you accuse all who have said the same thing.

Among other things, I’m a retired Christian pastor. Unlike you, I have never accused - nor will I ever accuse - a fellow Christian of not respecting God’s word.

I asked you previously why you thought I was here. You didn’t reply to my question. That’s fine. Now you say that I have an agenda, and it’s true that I do. Everyone does, even you.

I don’t know what your agenda is and I won’t speculate about it.

Neither do you know what my agenda is, though I have stated it publicly on several occasions. You’re bearing false witness against me (and against the Christians whom I’ve quoted in this thread) - out of ignorance, I hope.