Does God want me if I'm just a 'common use' piece of clay?

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arkham

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Can anybody explain this scripture to me? Because I'm desperately struggling with belief although I want to believe. This is confusing me and making me feel more hopeless than ever. (I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to ask.)

Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved? "Many are called but few are chosen..."? I'm struggling to come to Him, asking for help and strength despite my doubts and failure, I've prayed to know Him. Now I feel that maybe I'm just not one of the chosen.

Romans 9
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!​
15 For he says to Moses,​
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,​
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.​
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”​
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.​
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”​
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”​
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?​
 

MatthewG

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That all pertains to Israel, in that day? Reading Romans 9-11.

 

Ronald Nolette

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Can anybody explain this scripture to me? Because I'm desperately struggling with belief although I want to believe. This is confusing me and making me feel more hopeless than ever. (I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to ask.)

Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved? "Many are called but few are chosen..."? I'm struggling to come to Him, asking for help and strength despite my doubts and failure, I've prayed to know Him. Now I feel that maybe I'm just not one of the chosen.

Romans 9
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!​
15 For he says to Moses,​
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,​
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.​
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”​
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.​
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”​
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”​
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?​
You could not seek God if God did not put in your heart to seek Him. And those that seek, find! Take heart, God wants you, otherwise He would not have put that desire in your heart.
 

Ronald Nolette

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That all pertains to Israel, in that day? Reading Romans 9-11.

While it is specifically for Israel, Paul also made it crystal clear it refers to believers of all ages!

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So it i s a constant thing with god and not just historically Israel.
 

MatthewG

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While it is specifically for Israel, Paul also made it crystal clear it refers to believers of all ages!

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So it i s a constant thing with god and not just historically Israel.
I’m not so sure that what you say is true. Unless God is making vessels of wrath today, through Gentiles. Gods wrath was poured out on Israel, there would be no more wrath if the cup is poured out. Those vessels of wrath would be those who put to death Yeshua.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I’m not so sure that what you say is true. Unless God is making vessels of wrath today, through Gentiles. Gods wrath was poured out on Israel, there would be no more wrath if the cup is poured out. Those vessels of wrath would be those who put to death Yeshua.
You are equating God punishing Israel with God pouring His anger on sin. It is god who chooses who are His not us who choose God to be ours!

Remember all are fitted for destruction if God did not show mercy to some.
 
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MatthewG

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You are equating God punishing Israel with God pouring His anger on sin. It is god who chooses who are His not us who choose God to be ours!

Remember all are fitted for destruction if God did not show mercy to some.
It seems we have different views. I have a whole
Compiled list of everything pertaining to Gods wrath. God never once poured out his wrath on his son. He poured out his wrath on those who killed his Son. What did the Son do that was wrong that deserved Gods wrath?


I believe the context deals with Israel… but I could see how you could just very well say it’s for today by saying it is.
 

MatthewG

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@arkham, I can’t save you. The Lord God does desire a relationship with you, if that is something you seek. Call out… ask God to help your heart to change from its prior position. If you don’t desire God and push away from him, the harder ones heart can become. The closer you come to the light which is of God that hardness becomes softer. All the best to you!
 

Lambano

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Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved? "Many are called but few are chosen..."? I'm struggling to come to Him, asking for help and strength despite my doubts and failure, I've prayed to know Him. Now I feel that maybe I'm just not one of the chosen.
I know this insecurity all too well.

You can't control what others do, especially not God. You CAN trust. You have to trust. Can you go to Jesus and trust that "the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out" (John 6:37b)?

Trust. Isn't that what "faith" is?
 

Lambano

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This set of verses is part of a larger section (chapters 9-11) dealing with the big-picture questions of "Why did Israel reject her Messiah?" and "Does this mean that Israel is no longer God's people?" And in 11:28-29, Paul affirms that they still are.
 
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GRACE ambassador

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Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved?
Precious friend, God Desires All to Be Saved:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;​
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that​
all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9 AV)​
Simply trust/believe/place 100% heart faith In Him today:

Please prayerfully review: God's Simple Will!

I will pray for you...
 
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Bob Estey

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Can anybody explain this scripture to me? Because I'm desperately struggling with belief although I want to believe. This is confusing me and making me feel more hopeless than ever. (I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to ask.)

Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved? "Many are called but few are chosen..."? I'm struggling to come to Him, asking for help and strength despite my doubts and failure, I've prayed to know Him. Now I feel that maybe I'm just not one of the chosen.

Romans 9
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!​
15 For he says to Moses,​
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,​
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.​
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”​
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.​
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”​
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”​
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?​
I think your premise is in error. I don't think there is a "common use" piece of clay.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Compiled list of everything pertaining to Gods wrath. God never once poured out his wrath on his son. He poured out his wrath on those who killed his Son. What did the Son do that was wrong that deserved Gods wrath?
SCrripturally, there are only two things that experience the wrath of God.
1. the earth during the 70th week of Daniel (and people)
2. Gods general wrath towards sin.

As it is written, Jesus became sin!

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So someti9me around the4 3rd hour on the cross, Jesus cried out God, why did you utterly abandon me? It was because in some way beyond my thinking- the eternal Word of God, Jesus, The Son of Gods, God the son, became sin and God poured out His wrath on sin onto Jesus! Jesus paid for our asin by becoming our sin and being punished in our place!
I believe the context deals with Israel… but I could see how you could just very well say it’s for today by saying it is.
So is it your thought that the book of Galatians only applies to teh citizens of Galatia?

Look at the verse in its full context.:

Romans 9:

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

He uses Jacob and Esau and Pharoah as examples of God sovereignty over the affairs of man.

Verse 16 is key! This is not directed aT A SPECIFIC NATION BUT TO ALL.

18-24 is a rhetorical argument Paul uses, citing both Jews and Gentiles!

While chapters 9-11 focus of Israel, it is not exclusively Israel.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I’m not so sure that what you say is true. Unless God is making vessels of wrath today, through Gentiles. Gods wrath was poured out on Israel, there would be no more wrath if the cup is poured out. Those vessels of wrath would be those who put to death Yeshua.
Well God is the same yesterday, today and forever!

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul brings this to his present in verse 24 and this is still happening today!
 
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Augustin56

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God loves you to a degree as if you were the only creature He created through all of eternity! He is infinitely interested in your every breath and every beat of your heart! He had you in His mind's eye for all eternity, to live in this place and time, as part of His Providential plan for creation. Never underestimate God's love for you.

Here’s a very compelling testimony by a former atheist, Roy Shoeman. He’s a Harvard professor who was raised Jewish by Jewish parents who escaped the Nazi Holocaust of WWII, came to the U.S. and had him. He went to M.I.T., then Harvard, where he became an atheist and a professor. But, he always wondered that if there was no God, what was the meaning of life. One day, without warning, the curtain between heaven and earth was lifted and he saw both heaven and God! Here is his story:
 

FaithWillDo

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Can anybody explain this scripture to me? Because I'm desperately struggling with belief although I want to believe. This is confusing me and making me feel more hopeless than ever. (I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to ask.)

Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved? "Many are called but few are chosen..."? I'm struggling to come to Him, asking for help and strength despite my doubts and failure, I've prayed to know Him. Now I feel that maybe I'm just not one of the chosen.
Dear arkham,
Christ has chosen only a "few" for salvation in this age. They are called the Elect, the heirs, the Bride, the saints, and the First Fruits. They are blessed, not because of anything they have done, but solely because their Elect status satisfies the purposes of God for this creation.

I also want to say this: no one knows if they have been chosen for salvation in this age until after they are converted and have been given "eyes that can see". The conversion event happens "suddenly" and does not happen because of anything the person does. If a person is chosen, Christ will make sure they are converted and saved before they die.

Because you are asking the question about your salvation, it is a good sign that Christ is starting to work in your life.

To understand the difference between the "many" who are "called" and the "few" who are called and chosen, a person must have a good understanding of the pathway to salvation. I'll explain the pathway below.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are called are new believers who have received the Early Rain of the Spirit from Christ. They did not ask Christ for this gift and Christ did not ask them for permission to give it to them. Christ gives it to them solely because He chose to give it to them. Why does He do it this way? He does it this way because if He didn't, no one would ever be called out from the world.

These verses apply:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

After Christ gives an unbeliever the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will have a measure of faith and will call Jesus "Lord" when presented the Gospel:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Without the Spirit, they would never make a confession of faith. The Doctrine of Free Will is a false doctrine. Christ is the one who changes our heart and gives us the answer from our tongue:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

With the Early Rain of the Spirit, a person is saved as long as they remain faithful. However, the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure" (a small amount):

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain
(Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain
(Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.


Because the Early Rain of the Spirit is a small amount, it will leave the new believer spiritually blind and carnally minded. It is in this spiritually weak condition that all new believers (the "many") enter the church (including the Elect).

In this weak spiritual condition, Satan will come to them and easily deceive them via the spirit of anti-Christ. Under Satan's deceptions, the believer will accept his "another gospel" which mixes "works" with faith. When a believer does this mixing, they are committing the sin that leads to death. It is in this way that Satan kills the saints. It is a spiritual death and not a physical death. This is how the churches because apostate shortly after the deaths of the Apostles.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

After a believer has the spirit of anti-Christ within them, they will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) and become a "Man of Sin". This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs within a new believer (God's Temple). They will remain in this worsened spiritual condition until they either die or until Christ "comes again" to them with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is what differentiates the few who are "chosen" from the many who are only "called".

For the Elect, Christ will come a second time to them and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the fallen away believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and Christ will reveal Himself to them. He reveals Himself by opening up their understanding of scripture. This event is represented by the marriage supper of the Lamb when Christ feeds His new Bride milk, bread, meat and New Wine.

With this new knowledge of the truth, the newly born again believer will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) that had previously occurred within themselves. When this happens, judgment will fall on the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (their worsened carnal nature) and removed them from within the believer (Mat 24:40-41). After they are destroyed, the believer will be converted and will never fall away again. They will then know that they are one of the Elect because they endured to the end of the ages:

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.


FYI, Matthew chapter 24 is teaching about the spiritual signs that happen to an Elect believer which lead up to their conversion. This is when the "ends of the ages" come upon them. Chapter 24 is not a teaching about worldly events which supposedly happen at the end of this age - that is a carnal understanding of chapter 24.

What I have presented above is the pathway to salvation that Christ causes all His Elect to travel before they physically die. The pathway begins with the Early Rain of the Spirit and ends with the Latter Rain of the Spirit and judgment. The time a believer spends in between the two Rains was "typed" by Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought. That time period is also the final remaining 3 1/2 years of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy. It is a time of great tribulation.

To fully understand what I have presented above, there are many scriptures which must be applied. Because there are so many, it is not possible to share them in this post - but I do have a website shown under my member name which does.

One final comment. Christ is the Savior of the world. In this age, Christ is only harvesting the First Fruits (the Elect) of His harvest of mankind. In the final age, Christ will harvest the remaining balance of mankind at the great harvest as the end of the year.

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

After the last person of mankind is saved in the final age, this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I understand that what I have presented above is probably very new to you because it is not taught in the apostate churches of the world.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

Joe
 
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MatthewG

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SCrripturally, there are only two things that experience the wrath of God.
1. the earth during the 70th week of Daniel (and people)
2. Gods general wrath towards sin.

As it is written, Jesus became sin!

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So someti9me around the4 3rd hour on the cross, Jesus cried out God, why did you utterly abandon me? It was because in some way beyond my thinking- the eternal Word of God, Jesus, The Son of Gods, God the son, became sin and God poured out His wrath on sin onto Jesus! Jesus paid for our asin by becoming our sin and being punished in our place!

So is it your thought that the book of Galatians only applies to teh citizens of Galatia?

Look at the verse in its full context.:

Romans 9:

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

He uses Jacob and Esau and Pharoah as examples of God sovereignty over the affairs of man.

Verse 16 is key! This is not directed aT A SPECIFIC NATION BUT TO ALL.

18-24 is a rhetorical argument Paul uses, citing both Jews and Gentiles!

While chapters 9-11 focus of Israel, it is not exclusively Israel.
If sin is paid for for a gentile. What was the sin of the Jewish people who put up Gods Son to death? Putting Gods Son to death? That is deserving of wrath…
Well God is the same yesterday, today and forever!

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Paul brings this to his present in verse 24 and this is still happening today!
God changed his mind and how he worked through his love many times, working with his people, the twelve tribes of Israel.
 

MatthewG

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How can we then escape His wrath?

Makes no sense.


:hearteyes:
.
It’s a manmade tradition that suggest Jesus took the wrath of God. What did he do to deserve that? Sin? If you give me an answer to that question, perhaps I’ll change my position, but until then. The judgment was coming upon Israel, Jesus took upon the cup of suffering. Not wrath. All the best to you.
 

Pearl

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Does this mean that no matter if I seek God, I might just be unwanted and never saved?
So, can I ask if you have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour? If not then that is the first thing you need to do.

Once we have done that we are born again - that's what Jesus himself called it in the bible.

And if we are born again God has made us new and we are a part of his family.

Once we are part of his family he will then begin to shape us from a useless piece of clay into something useful and beautiful. But it takes time.

But just as clay needs to be kept continually moist in order to be worked and shaped and re-shaped so to do we need to be kept ‘moist’ and malleable with the Living Water by allowing the Holy Spirit to refill us daily so that God can shape us into his plan for us.

Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? - Romans 9:21

So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. Then the word of the LORD came to me: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. - Jeremiah 18:3-6 (NIV)
 
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