Does Jesus give people a 2nd chance after death?

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Rollo Tamasi

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It seems the word "preached in 1 Peter 3:19; causes some different understandings of it's meaning.
Preached can mean "publicly proclaim or teach a religious message or belief
To earnestly advocate a belief or course of action
Announce officially or publicly
Declare something one considers important with due emphasis
Demonstrate or indicate clearly.

With these definitions, the verse is open to many interpretations.
 

VictoryinJesus

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It seems the word "preached in 1 Peter 3:19; causes some different understandings of it's meaning.
Preached can mean "publicly proclaim or teach a religious message or belief
To earnestly advocate a belief or course of action
Announce officially or publicly
Declare something one considers important with due emphasis
Demonstrate or indicate clearly.

With these definitions, the verse is open to many interpretations.

Proclaimed victory over death. Is that better? Who are the disobedient spirits from the days of Noah then? Nephilim? Were the disobedient Moses, Abraham, Job who said he was certain he would stand in his own flesh in the last days? Can you convince me that Jesus Christ did not descend into Hell(torment) and proclaim victory over death to those held captive, and lead the disobedient rich man free?
 

Ac28

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A second chance after death isn't found in scripture. Therefore, you would have to conclude that it's non-existent. Where the Bible is silent, we must also be silent! The spirits in prison in 1Pe 3:19 are fallen angels. When man dies, his spirit returns to God, who gave it. It certainly doesn't go to prison and the "spirit" certainly isn't the "soul". The existence of a separate soul is a pagan concept that is unscriptural. Man IS a living soul, while alive - Genesis 2:7, and a dead soul when he dies.

Hell a a pagan concept that is not found in scripture. The 4 Greek and Hebrew words that hell replaces in many (or, most) Bibles have absolutely nothing to do with the pagan-derived Christian concept of hell. When a believer dies, it says he sleeps, because he will be resurrected and will live again. When a non-believer dies, he just returns to the dust and totally ceases to exist. He receives the eternal punishment of permanent death. The tradition of a person going to heaven immediately after death is unscriptural, since no one except Christ has ever ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. Every saint that has died is still in the grave waiting for their resurrection.

I would guess that 5-10% of Christendom believes the Bible about death and adds nothing extra to help God along. The beliefs about death, of the other 90-95%, are all based on paganism. philosophy, and man's traditions.
 
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bbyrd009

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I feel this is a much debated subject.
People like to read more into Scripture than what is there.
I've read of pastors who believe Jesus gives everyone a 2nd chance after death because he doesn't want anyone to go to hell.
some believe that when Jesus went to hell, he preached the Gospel and gave everyone from old a 2nd chance.
But the Bible doesn't say that.
Or does it.
Anyone have anything to say about this?
wow, just saw this thread, hmm
work while it is day; the night is coming, when no one can work
 

Taken

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Hi Rollo, Thats a good question you ask. There are so many different views and depending on who you talk to you will get a variety of answers. However, I always like to see what the bible has to say on the subject.

First thing to understand about death is that the bible tells us what happens to us after we die.
Psalm 146:4 "his spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; on that very day his thoughts perish"
Eccl 9:5,10 "The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all....there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the grave, where you are going."

these two verses show there is nothing after death. It is a place of inactivity. Jesus said it was like being 'asleep' when he spoke of Lazarus who had died...he said in John 11:11, 13, 14 " Lazarus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him...then he said plainly "Lazarus has died"
And consider, Jesus himself was dead for 3 days...when he was resurrected was when he returned to heaven.

However, the bible holds out the hope of a 'resurrection' to ALL who have died.
Jesus proved this hope is real when he resurrected Lazarus before a crowd of people. He brought a dead man back to life. Lazarus woke from death. Jesus disciples believed that all would eventually be brought back to life as Acts 24:15 shows " And I have hope toward God....that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Yes all bodies will be resurrected.
...since all bodies have sinned..
...all bodies are Judged and sentenced..
...all bodies are present before the Judge, For their Judgement and Sentencing.

Some Bodies, while alive In their natural blood life of their body, with the ability of Thought, and ability to Make Choices....
Freely CHOSE Christ.
They shall be Raised To Glory of Eternal Life.

Some bodies, while alive In their natural blood life of their body, with the ability of Thought, and the ability to Make Choices...
Freely CHOSE To Reject God, Reject Christ.
They shall be Raised To Damnation.
John 5:29

AFTER Bodily Death...the Life (Blood) of the Body is No More.
AFTER Bodily Death, Bodies Are Not Resurrected WITH (its Life, its Blood)...

A Resurrected Body, VOID of its natural Life (Blood), Has No means To Make A Confession of Belief and Become Forgiven, Saved, or Born Again.

1)
From the beginning...Bodies in their own natural blood Life were Offered an Opportunity To Hear, trust, believe and follow God...(and a yearly date to make a sin Offering for Forgiveness....)or not....
Their continued Belief to the end of their natural life...resulted in their bodies To be Kept in the Book of Life....and their Bodies shall be Resurrected in Glory of everlasting Life.

2)
From Jesus' Day...Bodies in their own natural blood Life were "Offered" an Opportunity To Hear, trust, believe in God, In Christ and follow Him, and submit To His Once and Forever Receiving Of Forgiveness, Sanctification, Salvation, Quickening of their spirit, Indwelling of Gods Holy Spirit, To KEEP that man Forever In and With God, (being Kept, By The Lords Supreme Power Himself)..."or not."

3)
The mystery of Death; is dependent upon Whose Understanding....Gods ...or mans.

4)
Mans understanding; Bodily Life ceases.
No functioning/ Blood Flowing to Beat the Heart...the Body Dies., is Dead, knows nothing, feels nothing.

5)
Gods understanding;
Same as man....with Addition;
A man Alive. With his natural life (blood), functioning/flowing/....But separated From God (in disbelief of God)....is according To God, a Dead man.

6)
^^^^ That man is Offered Salvation While ....Alive in His Natural Physical Blood Life.
....Some men Accept God Offering, Christ's Offering....Many Do Not.

7)
Point Being....
ONCE a man IS physically Dead,
(And the man Rejected God or Christ's Offering... while physically Alive...

The physically Dead Mans Blood (Life) is Not Again Given Him When he IS Resurrected on Judgement Day.....THUS .... there IS no means For a natural man To fulfill The Requirement of The living natural sinful man To Confess Belief or become Forgiven.
The Door is Shut!

The urgency in Scripture is repeatedly Taught....To bodily alive men..."Spiritually separated (Dead) from God...to become Saved....before they LOSE their Opportunity...and physically Die In their Sin of Disbelief and Without Forgiveness and Salvation, that DEAD BODIES, void of their Blood Life, having Rejected God, CAN NOT RECEIVE.
Urgent.....a man does not KNOW the hour his physical blood life shall END, and he LOSE opportunity to become forgiven and Saved.

8)
A mans Demise to being raised UP to damnation has NOTHING to do with Gods Love.....and Everything to do with He is Faithful, His Word True....and man has been warned of the Consequences FOR mans Belief in God and FOR mans Rejection of God.

Men Alive in their own Blood Bodily Life, WHO Reject God, Christ, and physically die IN their Sin Against God, ....Shall NOT be forgiven, or Saved.....less God be a liar....God Forbid.

9)
Gods Mercy is revealed FOR the Damned.
THEY were Never GIVEN "ever lasting Life".
THUS they do NOT "continue" IN Spiritual LIFE forever, being Separated from God.

Our Service to the Lord...of the Living in our Natural blood life...IS to Speak His Word of Truth, that others may hear and know Salvation IS Come to the Earth, by the Power of God....that;
A man CAN become Forgiven, bodily dead IN Christ, Sanctified, kept with Christ, recorded In the Lambs Book of Life, his soul Restored, his spirit Born Again with Gods Seed, Have the Indwelling Power of God, to KEEP that man Forever Sealed unto God....NOW...while the man IS Alive in his own natural blood life.

Reject the OFFER, and the Consequence is Damnation, eternal separation from God...
Life departed out of his Living soul, and returned to God....and his body and soul destroyed and forgotten.

No, men do not get a 2nd chance, AFTER they are physically, bodily dead.

Men have hundreds and hundreds of days of chances, during their Alive Bodily (blood) life....to Choose or Reject God, Reject Christ.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Frank Lee

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For Sure he gives… He, the father of all, loves his children. Doesn't matter if he/she has sinned or not, he loves his children in the same way. Though, as a good parent he awards us or punishes us for our good or bad deeds.

He teaches us to follow a good path, be righteous and just. He wants to walk on his told path and that who abides by him gets his blessings.

It doesn’t mean, he forgets his kids who accidently went on to the wrong path. He gives them time to get back on the right track. Whatever path a person has taken, no matter what jobs, bad or good they have done in their life, they have to ultimately face him after death.

I am a believer and thus I am sure he gives a 2nd chance to everyone. On the judgment day, everyone has to answer him for his/her doings. According to the person’s good & bad deeds, (You must be born again) he gives his decision.

The good ones are allowed to stay with him in heaven, while others are sent back on earth to rectify their mistakes.(??? SCRIPTURES Please! This is a strange unbiblical idea. ) This is one big chance for the person and he/she should use it wisely. (SCRIPTURES Please!)

Whoa! Scriptures please. This is reincarnation weirdness! There is no biblical basis for this peculiar religious doctrine...

This could be your second chance, (?? Reincarnation?? ! )so it’s better you start utilizing it in rectifying your previous mistakes. Help the poor, be honest and truthful and most importantly a believer.( this is dead works, reminiscent of the RCC who rejoice in dead works)

Of course, the path to the right has always been the most difficult one. You need to stay firm. You can only cross the whole way if you are holding the finger of God. He is omnipresent, yet you need to keep his sign with yourself always. (?? what sign...?) As well as, you need to be positive at all times.

Refer to remarks within quoted test... Thanks.
 

Taken

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A second chance after death isn't found in scripture.

Agree.

Therefore, you would have to conclude that it's non-existent. The spirits in prison in 1Pe 3:19 are fallen angels.

Disagree.
I believe Jesus' body went to the "grave", a cave, an unused tomb, prepared for and burial place owned by a holy man, named Joseph of Arimathaea, a Jewish Sanhedrin, follower of Jesus, whom Joseph Himself placed Jesus' body in his tomb.

Jesus' living soul went to hell to preach to the "spirits" in hell, which I believe were thee living souls of believing men, with Abraham.
I believe they were being informed their WAITING in hell, in comfort of Abraham....was coming to an end, and that their living souls were going to be sent to heaven to wait for their bodies to be raised in Glory.

When man dies, his spirit returns to God, who gave it.

This requires an indepth study, to comprehend Gods understanding.
In Brief...
Man has 3 types (so to speak) of LIFE.
Blood....Natural life of his Body
Soul...spiritual LIFE via Gods Breath
Spirit...natural TRUTH in a mans heart

These three Lifes are separate things Within and the makeup of One natural Living man.

A man Who becomes Converted...receives something...Additional.

That man receives Gods SEED, which Re- Births the mans Natural "spirit" (of Truth in his heart, born of a mans seed)....To becoming Born Again of Gods SEED, resulting in the man receiving A Born Again "everlasting, not SUBJECT to death...spirit.
That effects The Change IN the mans Truths In His Spirit, in his Heart.
Gods Seed of Truth is what is planted in the mans heart (which BYW, is a new heart given during Conversion), and this Truth, Gods Truth, remains IN a physically ALIVE Body.

Each of the Lives of a man...BELIEVER/Converted or Not Are dealt with..

1) a body's (blood life) ceases, and returns to dust. Applicable to All men...and that "Blood Life" never Resurrected.

2) a saved and unsaved living soul Departs its dead body.
...Saved Living souls go to heaven, with God, To Wait for Judgement and their glorified bodies.
...Unsaved living souls go to hell, without God, To Wait for their Unglorified bodies to be raised from their grave, go to hell, and be Judged with their Living souls.

3) a saved and "BORN AGAIN" man HAS received a "new spirit", Born of Gods Seed, and upon their bodily Death, THEIR "new Born Again Spirit", goes to Gods Hand, returning to Him, Who gave the man his "new Born Again Spirit."

4) Unforgiven, Unsaved, UnBorn Again men, do have NOT received a new Spirit from Gods Seed, THUS, there IS NO spirit of "them" Given, OR "returned" to God, upon that mans Bodily Death.

Judgement has NOT YET COME.
When Judgement Day arrives....
Bodies of the unsaved, shall be raised out of their graves, go to hell, reunite with their living souls....and Stand in Judgement, Be NOT found IN the Book of Life or the Lambs BOOK of Life, and THEN the life in their Living soul, SHALL return to God....and their Body, (it's natural Unborn again spirit) and Soul....VOID of LIFE....destroyed.

It certainly doesn't go to prison

Jesus said to the Thief, who believed, THEY would be together, THAT DAY, IN Paradise.
Their bodys were dead and buried. Their living souls were together in paradise.

Is Paradise "prison"? It was the fallen angels sent to Prison in hell.....perhaps Jesus had a word to speak to them.

and the "spirit" isn't the "soul".

Agree.

The existence of a separate soul is a pagan concept that is unscriptural.

Disagree.
1 Thes 5:23....three distinctions...
Body, Soul, Spirit.

Man IS a living soul, while alive

Disagree.
Man IS a created body of dust, a living soul, and a natural spirit....and for some a crucified body, a saved restored soul and via Gods Seed, born again spirit....and Called WHOLE.

- Gen 2:7, and a dead soul when he dies.

A dead soul is Soul with Life in it ... Gods breath of Life.....that is separated from God, whether IN or OUT of a mans body.

It remains with Life IN IT, until Judgement is pronounced and the Sentence carried out.

Hell a a pagan concept that is unscriptural.

Disagree.

The 4 Greek and Hebrew words that hell replaces in many Bibles have absolutely nothing to do with the pagan-derived Christian concept of hell. When a believer dies, it says he sleeps, because he will be resurrected and will live again. When a non-believer dies, he just returns to the dust and totally ceases to exist. He receives the eternal punishment of permanent death. The tradition of a person going to heaven immediately after death is unscriptural, since no one except Christ has ever ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. Every saint that has died is still in the grave waiting for their resurrection.

Men were aware of HELL, a place for unbelievers, to Wait for Judgement.
The "WAITING", is not a TIME of Pleasure, Beauty or Comfort.
No man had SEEN Hell, but plenty of men HAD SEEN, distruction, men burning their children alive, the screams and torment of the living children, the stench, the agony....
And used their own words to describe what they believed would be a fallen mans experience IN Hell, comparatively, to WHAT they HAD seen.

I would guess that 5-10% of Christendom doesn't believe the Bible about death. The beliefs about death, of the other 90-95%, are all based on paganism. philosophy, and man's traditions.

I would say FEW people, saved or not, do not comprehend the extent of the understanding of Death.

God Bless,
Taken
 

VictoryinJesus

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wow, just saw this thread, hmm
work while it is day; the night is coming, when no one can work

What is night? Is there any darker night or evil present than the hour and the power of darkness? Luke 22:55 "When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness."

John 9:4 "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work." He said He came to "finish" the work of His Father. Finish. There is only ONE that can work in that hour, the sixth hour and the power of darkness. Only one. Man can do nothing to save himself in the hour of the power of darkness upon the world. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." KJV For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. --when did God "prepare in advance" or "before ordained" work for us to do? Wasn't it when the Lamb was slain before the foundation? The world is now in that sixth hour, and the power of darkness where no man can save himself by only God can. There is only one door. To the world the Son of God is condemned and has never risen, and is trampled under foot. We(His) are not of the night, but of the day...the resurrection day.

THE HOUR OF DARKNESS and the power the world is under: See the visual of the fig tree shake: Revelation 6:12-13
I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.

"The stars fell to the earth" as "figs when shaken by a great wind." During the hour of darkness Christ allowed to take Him, freely laying down life to take it up again. All was put out of heaven with no way in but one way. The bondage of religion was broken. There was no light given by the stars to light the earth. The Sun became black as sackcloth made of hair(it mourns). See no light as all mourns His body laid in the grave with the wicked...the only thing in view: the whole moon as blood. Black of night, the only sight being a blood moon seen as a testament so they are without excuse. Will there ever be a blacker night than when our King hung in our place? When He swallowed up death in victory and drank of God's wrath for all mankind?
Jeremiah 8:13 "I will surely snatch them away," declares the LORD; "There will be no grapes on the vine And no figs on the fig tree, And the leaf will wither; And what I have given them will pass away." It happened.
 
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bbyrd009

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We(His) are not of the night, but of the day...the resurrection day.
prolly a better interp, i agree, i've gone back and forth on whether a ref to any time after literal death is being made or not, i mostly keep it as a consideration bc in your perspective here Christ's sacrifice would be considered to be "not work" in that night had fallen for Him at that point, in that analogy, right?
 

VictoryinJesus

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prolly a better interp, i agree, i've gone back and forth on whether a ref to any time after literal death is being made or not, i mostly keep it as a consideration bc in your perspective here Christ's sacrifice would be considered to be "not work" in that night had fallen for Him at that point, in that analogy, right?

Not the work of man but the work of the Spirit of God. Mark 11:12-14 “And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: [13] And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet . [14] And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.”

My grandpa had a fig tree and it bore fruit. We would eat it together. I always believed God must have lied or changed His mind, because He told the fig tree it was cursed and no one would ever eat fruit of it hereafter. Notice He saw the fig tree a far off. It only had leaves for cover and the leaves withered, no fruit. No spirit in the figs fruit. Not edible for those hungry. He said “the time for figs was not yet.” It wasn’t time yet for figs with fruit of the spirit(edible fruit for those hungry). It is supposed to be God’s work, fruit of His Spirit and His labour. He prepared it. And He fulfills it. I get what you are saying but it has to be God’s fruit and labour ...doesn’t it? Can man do anything apart from God?
 
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Taken

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I disagree.
1) Thee Blood would be Jesus' Pure Blood...which WITHOUT His Graceful Offering of His Blood, there would be no Forgiveness given mankind, For mankinds Sin Against God of Disbelief IN God.
2) Blood of mankind IS a mans Bodily Life.
All of manskinds Blood Is Tainted and Is Sentenced To Bodily Death.

(But that's All Good, since a natural BODY can not become an eternal glorious body, less it first dies)



The Holy Spirit is The Might and Power of God...ie Thee Almighty ...you know...
Thee Lord God Almighty.



Uh huh and so is a natural born man Carnal, which is whose blood I was specifically speaking of.



Never said it was.



Uh, Jesus didn't have "natural blood" or "natural" anything.



Come on man, you are going off on a tangent, and lecturing men should be careful when speaking of Blood...while you clearly do not understand the significance of mans blood or Jesus' blood.

Perhaps a word study of Blood, in the Scriptures would benefit you.

God Bless,
Taken

The blood of man does nothing to get them into Heaven.

Excuse me...I never said that it did.
BLOOD IN A natural born Body....Gets a mans body a natural LIFE.

A body MUST HAVE LIFE, before IT CAN DIE.
A body MUST DIE, before IT CAN BE BORN AGAIN OF GODS SEED.

Evil men have blood as well.
...

Of course they do. That was NOT a contending POINT. The POINT IS: ALL BLOOD LIFE MUST DIE, God requires the Life of a man, which IS HIS BLOOD.

Men CHOOSE to become Forgiven, and Saved, or NOT.

All people have a soul regardless, they were born with one.

Somewhat agree.
All natural born bodies are Quickened into a living state, via, being given a soul with life from God, Via His Breath of Life.

Jesus offered up his life, but they could not kill his Spirit.

Jesus Offered His body of Flesh For the Life of the World...and His Blood For Forgiveness For those who choose To ACCEPT His Offering.

His blood did nothing more than any other mans blood, but sustain his worldly life.

Disagree

Blood sacrifice has Always been the requirement For Atonement For mans forgiveness of Sin.

WITH slaughter and BLOOD of animals in the Garden. Upon the Alter in the Temple in Jerusalem, A Ram in the stead of Isaac, and thee Lord Jesus upon the Cross...the LAST sacrifice of Blood, Jesus' Pure Blood, For the Forgiveness of mankind.

The Holy Spirit is with in you, it's within your grasp, through Jesus Christ when you know him.

Already have GIVEN my body unto death, crucified with Christ.
Already have Received the Lords Offering.
Already have the Holy Spirit IN and WITH me.

It's the blood of Christ that can be misleading with people I have met, Freemasons and Satanist make this a big deal, the holy grail and such total BS or I have a drop of blood from Jesus, it's some how magical BS. even if they had such it would not mean jack, because it the Holy Spirit that's where it's all as and that trumps all the nonsense, so it's not worthy of talking about such petty nonsense. or what do you think that it does ?

You are going off on a tangent again.
And continue to NOT understanding the magnitude of THE BLOOD of Jesus.

Nothing beats the Holy Spirit because Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit.

Yes, Christ IS the Holy Spirit, ie Power of God.....and Yes, there IS an ORDER and WAY, for man TO ACCEPT the indwelling Holy Spirit.....Knowing and Understanding the Way, Order, Preparation leading up to, and Receiving the Holy Spirit....Is Not some sideline evil, heathen nonsense as you are purporting.

God Bless,
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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I get what you are saying but it has to be God’s fruit and labour ...doesn’t it?
um well, imo our perspectives are being manipulated there, but regardless i can agree, sure, through the Body of Christ, iow it's right back on us anyway. So i would ask you "does the flesh profit from seeking God?" since it is in the same vein imo. Certainly the flesh profits, right, the v is just set-up in such a way that a dialectic statement about acting "from the flesh" is also made true.

Also, the only judgement you will be subject to is that of your works being judged, right? We are even counselled to not be debating beliefs, and judging "by the fruit" instead, right
 

VictoryinJesus

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"does the flesh profit from seeking God?"

That is a good question. I don’t know. The word says without charity even if we have faith to move mountains...it amounts to nothing. I’ll leave it at that.

To the OP, never meant to imply the dead can change their mind. I was asking about a prayer of faith. Our faith not the unbelievers. Love is supposed to the believe all things, hope all things, and endure all things. Why do priest and pastors pray over the sick before they pass? God said a prayer of faith and He will raise them, and forgive them of their sins. Sometimes they get up out of the bed and go on, sometimes they don’t. So is it the elders that fail to have faith to raise them up(literally) every time? I’ve always seen it as a Spiritual promise that God would raise up the (spiritually) sick, heal them (restore them) and forgive them. A prayer of faith to move mountains is not literal mountains. Or to pluck up a fig tree and plant it in the sea, is not a literal tree. Again, never meant to imply a dead man can change his mind...I was only asking how much power does a prayer of faith have over one spiritually sick(never restored to God) when they pass.
 
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bbyrd009

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So is it the elders that fail to have faith to raise them up(literally) every time?
i would say no, it is the belief that the v speaks to the literal that is the problem; obviously even the healthiest of us will die a natural death, and the v is really about bringing them spiritually back to life imo. so i think i'm agreeing with you, and "the elders" are just maybe reading a bit too literally, i'm always looking for one to pop a snake out of their pit under the altar when i see that prayer done that way lol
 
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Taken

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What is night?

Night??
In short;
Night is the Lesser Light, seen "Against" the darkness that looms in the Lower heavens. that Mankind Can Gaze upon.

What is later revealed...is the "lesser light" .
Called the Moon, that appears Against the Darkness of the lower Heavens...
Has no Light. It's Light is a Reflection of The Suns Light.

A foreshadow...
Of mankind, naturally born Against God...who can Become In the Light, (by Way of the Son) Who is Light, and Will cast His Reflection upon a Converted man,; Effecting the man to Overcome the Darkness and Become a Glorious Inheritance of God.

God Bless,
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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I was only asking how much power does a prayer of faith have over one spiritually sick(never restored to God) when they pass.
ha, why do we say 'pass' when virtually all fail, i always wondered. My guess here is that the spiritually sick are dying untimely precisely bc they are spiritually sick, and the prayer's effectiveness can be measured by whether the sick "stand up and walk" spiritually, which i have seen even professed atheists do--ok well maybe only once--bc following God's natural laws works no matter what one calls themselves, garlic and rain both work the same way for everyone i guess
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Proclaimed victory over death. Is that better? Who are the disobedient spirits from the days of Noah then? Nephilim? Were the disobedient Moses, Abraham, Job who said he was certain he would stand in his own flesh in the last days? Can you convince me that Jesus Christ did not descend into Hell(torment) and proclaim victory over death to those held captive, and lead the disobedient rich man free?
The onus is on you to prove he did.
 
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Enoch111

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Hell a a pagan concept that is not found in scripture. The 4 Greek and Hebrew words that hell replaces in many (or, most) Bibles have absolutely nothing to do with the pagan-derived Christian concept of hell. When a believer dies, it says he sleeps, because he will be resurrected and will live again. When a non-believer dies, he just returns to the dust and totally ceases to exist. He receives the eternal punishment of permanent death. The tradition of a person going to heaven immediately after death is unscriptural, since no one except Christ has ever ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. Every saint that has died is still in the grave waiting for their resurrection.
Once again you are inventing your own theology. But since you are thoroughly convinced that the majority of Christians have no idea about this, I will leave you to your delusions.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The onus is on you to prove he did.

1 Peter 3:18-29
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


The Christ I know did not descend to proclaim victory over death to the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient ...to shout what’s up guys I’m taking those over there on the other side of that gulf out...rich guy, you stay. The Christ I know stood in the gulf, He closed the breach between man and God, making it possible for sinners to pass over. Victory=good news to sinners. To proclaim victory to gloat in the face of the losers...that is fallen man’s take on victory, not God’s.

I wish I could prove it to you...but your mind is already set. It is a good thread though and you did present a good question.
 
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lldlila

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I feel this is a much debated subject.
People like to read more into Scripture than what is there.
I've read of pastors who believe Jesus gives everyone a 2nd chance after death because he doesn't want anyone to go to hell.
some believe that when Jesus went to hell, he preached the Gospel and gave everyone from old a 2nd chance.
But the Bible doesn't say that.
Or does it.
Anyone have anything to say about this?
St. Paul writes that we should pray for the dead. I don't know where it is, but he did say that in one of his letters. I don't know if that constitutes a second chance, but we believe souls go to purgatory and suffer great pains of purification and our prayers ease their suffering there. The Virgin Mary told the 3 seers at Fatima in 1917 that Jucinto would go to Purgatory until the end of the second coming. The other 2 were going straight to Heaven. That is proof enough for me.