Does Paul tell is in Romans chapter 7 that we will always sin while in this flesh nature?

[Prentis]

A righteous man falls seven times, and rises again.

Until our character is shaped as Christ's, we will not be able to always walk in his power, which makes us as he is, as we carry him in us, and abide in him. I am human as you are... But we must always rise up and learn, that we might grow and become like him, attain him!

The Lord bless you, my brother.

 

[Vengle]

A righteous man falls seven times, and rises again.

Until our character is shaped as Christ's, we will not be able to always walk in his power, which makes us as he is, as we carry him in us, and abide in him. I am human as you are... But we must always rise up and learn, that we might grow and become like him, attain him!

The Lord bless you, my brother.

Sigh !!!

If you know what I mean.

 

[Prentis]

Sigh !!!

If you know what I mean.

You mean it's not always easy?

I agree.

 

[bling]

So then, what do we do with that kind of experience? Some people just give in to it and live with their conscience tormented and being relegated further and further into the background until one day their conscience is as dead and they no longer care at all.

Then there are those who appear sorrowful and they weep and mourn so that on-lookers conclude they are repentant. But is it that outward appearance of sorrow that proves repentance? Some imagine to themselves that this sorrow is all that repentance is.

Hebrews 12:17 "For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."

So then judging by the case of Esau, we can see that outward weeping and mourning is not repentance of its self. And after that realization some people who truly are repentant dispense with that weeping and mourning, merely turning from their sin and back to God seeking to learn how to become steady again.

And sometimes on-lookers not seeing that outward weeping and mourning imagine that such a person is not really repentant. It comes down to the fact that such on-lookers also yet have much to learn.

What goes on in a person's mind and heart when we do not see that outward grieving after they have sinned and yet they turn away from that sin and back to the love and good works in Christ?

Faith. Faith in the love of God and the ransom of his Son that it is sufficient when they know inside them that their repentance is real and understand that what shows it is forsaking that sin and returning humbly to God in Christ..

I dare say that has happened to everyone of us at one time or another as regards various kinds of sin.

But does that make it OK that we sin? Can we afford to take our relapses into sin lightly?

And would not repentance also include facing up to the things we did wrong that allowed us to be ripe to have that relapse into sin?

I cannot blame that young woman. It does me no good to blame that young woman and if I did that only would make ripe my hurting her further through gossip. I have to face that I am responsible and no one else. That is a part of repentance. Repentance is not repentance without it. And, I ask God to blame me and not her because I was supposed to be the mature Christian. And that makes me far worse than her.

So we can see a number of things that must be true if repentance is real; if we have not like Esau, "found no place for (true) repentance."

(1) We pray from our heart to God.
(2) We forsake the sin determined never to repeat it.
(3) We blame no one for our sin but our own self
(4) We draw closer to God after that sin knowing God will forgive us and that he is the only one that can teach us what we did wrong, helping us through his knowledge to know what we must do to avoid such sin in the future.
(5) We diligently apply what God has taught us in our life, serving him with heart felt appreciation and joyfulness.


Did I leave anything out?

P.A.S.S. = Prayer - Association - Study - Service

Yes you left something out.

All, false religions have a way of “trying” to deal with sin that does not really work. The huge difference with Christianity is taking our past sins and making them into assets. Paul is our example here in that as the chief of sinners Paul takes all those past terrific sins and make them part of his witness. (Look this is hard and not for the immature). We are to use those past sins to describe how we were and what we had done, then tell the difference Christ has made in our life. The power that comes with forgiveness and cleansing. That is not the not the way you are now! You are avoiding even the possibility of ever getting in that situation again.

Remember also, the indwelling Holy Spirit is not some night watchman setting around waiting, but wants to be active all the time. We quench the Holy Spirit by not allowing Him to do good stuff. We can fell our lives with good stuff to the point of just not having time to work in bad stuff. The Holy Spirit wants to help you do good stuff, so what do you want to do together?

 

[Vengle]

Yes you left something out.

All, false religions have a way of “trying” to deal with sin that does not really work. The huge difference with Christianity is taking our past sins and making them into assets. Paul is our example here in that as the chief of sinners Paul takes all those past terrific sins and make them part of his witness. (Look this is hard and not for the immature). We are to use those past sins to describe how we were and what we had done, then tell the difference Christ has made in our life. The power that comes with forgiveness and cleansing. That is not the not the way you are now! You are avoiding even the possibility of ever getting in that situation again.

Remember also, the indwelling Holy Spirit is not some night watchman setting around waiting, but wants to be active all the time. We quench the Holy Spirit by not allowing Him to do good stuff. We can fell our lives with good stuff to the point of just not having time to work in bad stuff. The Holy Spirit wants to help you do good stuff, so what do you want to do together?

Amen, fully appreciated.

We certainly do not want to be those who it says have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power. 2 Timothy 3: 5

 

[Thankful 1]

It's actually blasphemy against Christ to say that we can literally have no sin, as John even said...

I Jn 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(KJV)

John was not speaking that to a group that hadn't yet believed on Christ.


One of the things the pagans think to do with their flesh, is become 'perfect' in their flesh. They have no hope in the world to come, because they think somehow they can create some kind perfect flesh existence of the now! It's just like Paul taught in Rom.7, the minute they try the hardest... not to sin, they mess up and sin. We as Christians are LIKEWISE under the very SAME bondage to the flesh as they are!

So what's the difference??

Simple. WE have Christ Jesus Who died on the cross to redeem us, Who cleanses us from all sin through repentance. But those pagans don't have Christ Jesus. This is why we are all still sinners, yet those in Christ Jesus are 'counted' Perfect through His Blood shed on the cross.




That's just about one of the BEST witnesses I've ever heard of our need for continued 'repentance' to Christ, even AFTER we have believed on Him and been baptized!

(1 John 1: 8-10)[sup] “[/sup]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

[veteran]

(1 John 1: 8-10)[sup] “[/sup]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

You appear to miss an important principle John also mentioned there, it involves the act of confessing of sin, which means repentance after having already come to Christ and having believed. In Romans 3:25, Paul was specific that first belief on Christ's Blood is for forgiveness of sins that are... past.

Repentance is necessary for sins we commit thereafter.So think again if you believe men's doctrines that instead try to teach that all sins we may commit in the future are automatically forgiven. They are not until we repent to Christ and ask forgiveness; then He cleanses us from the sin. Our Lord Jesus well showed this in His Messages sent to the seven Churches in Asia, where He told five of them to 'repent'.

 

[Vengle]

(1 John 1: 8-10)[sup] “[/sup]If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

You appear to miss an important principle John also mentioned there, it involves the act of confessing of sin, which means repentance after having already come to Christ and having believed. In Romans 3:25, Paul was specific that first belief on Christ's Blood is for forgiveness of sins that are... past.

Repentance is necessary for sins we commit thereafter.So think again if you believe men's doctrines that instead try to teach that all sins we may commit in the future are automatically forgiven. They are not until we repent to Christ and ask forgiveness; then He cleanses us from the sin. Our Lord Jesus well showed this in His Messages sent to the seven Churches in Asia, where He told five of them to 'repent'.

I see that first part of 1 John 1:8-10, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us”, as simply telling us that we need to be honest to begin with about ourselves so that we are willing to make confession. That is why it continues, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”

This part, “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives”, is simply telling us that if we are not honest enough to do that first part (acknowledge our sin and confess it) we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

We are however told at 2 Peter 1:9 that the ransom applies to past sins, but is that with regard to not needing confession? No. This refers to those who have confessed but have then forgotten all about why they confessed. They have returned to their old ways after confession.

The idea that the world is forgiven apart from confession I do not find in the Bible. For that would disagree with what Paul said, Colossians 2:13 “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”

That being dead in our sins and our trespasses applies to the whole world until they confess.
Romans 3:19 “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

 

[veteran]

That being dead in our sins and our trespasses applies to the whole world until they confess.

Depends on how you meant the above the statement.

As we continue to walk in Christ Jesus, that includes confession of future sins we may commit. If all sins that we might commit were covered 'automatically', then our Lord Jesus and His Apostles would not have given the multitude of warnings about turning away from Him, and He would have never called those Churches in Asia to repentance.

 

[Vengle]

Depends on how you meant the above the statement.

As we continue to walk in Christ Jesus, that includes confession of future sins we may commit. If all sins that we might commit were covered 'automatically', then our Lord Jesus and His Apostles would not have given the multitude of warnings about turning away from Him, and He would have never called those Churches in Asia to repentance.

I agree completely.

 

[WISDOM CALLED]

The teaching by Paul is related to Hitler. No surprise as Rome did its utmost to destroy the Jewish people and where they were coming from. It is also common knowledge that Islam stood with Hitler to destroy the Jewish people. After WW2 they went underground to rear their heads again.





Clergy of America - Romans 13 Authority



The American Clergy are they a plant without a bud? Did you know they promote the same passage as Hitler?



No, there is a big difference between governments elected by men and God's government chosen by God. God's government live in harmony with the Spiritual law. They are spiritual leaders not G20 leaders. Most of the clergy are plants that never got a bud because they are weeds and not spiritual flowers that blossom in Christ. Let's look at what the clergy in that video are promoting especially as Hitler promoted the same chapter to further his aims.

Romans 13 - Submission to the Authorities

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established."

The one true God does not ask for submission he asks you to come to him willingly that is why humanity were given the greatest gift of free will.

"The authorities that exist have been established by God."

The REAL ones selected by God yes and they are usually selected from the humble because they are willing to listen to God and do as he asks, they align their will with the will of God not men.

"Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

Very true because it is humanities own co-creation.

"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right"

Correct. However, terror is a human aspect not a divine one.

"Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority?"

If you do it is best to heal the wants and the fears within. The cosmos is not a one way street.

"Then do what is right and he will commend you."

He certainly will but not often, commendations are only given after a huge amount of effort and success.

"For he is God's servant to do you good."

Indeed. Goodness = Healthy consciousness = LIFE and LIVING without tasting disease.

"But if you do wrong, be afraid"

The above passage is in complete contradiction to the words of Jesus Christ, Jesus told his followers to never be afraid.

"for he does not bear the sword for nothing."

We certainly don't. However, the sword of the light of truth is blunted with mercy.

"He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

No, God likes relationship and the sacred union with the divine. No requirement for servants, agents or wrath. God allows man to destroy itself if they do not listen and do. He allows the bush to burn due to man's creation. God knows that the burning of one soul that returns to ashes can save a million more souls from harm.

"Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities"

No submission - EQUALITY WHEN YOU RISE UP TO MEET THEM

God asks you to come willingly, he does not force or impose anything upon anyone. However, there is divine intervention to help the people whether they believe or not. Even unbelievers are involved in miracles.

"not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience."

Paul appears to like this word punishment he reminds me of Obama when he talked about unwanted pregnancy being a punishment. Not so guys!

"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing."



Yes, but hang in there one minute......

1. Melchizedek asked Abraham to donate 10% of income to the High Priest chosen by God not the people.

2. The authorities are not G20 and its leaders.

3. The authorities have been risen up by God and chosen by God because they have proven their worth to work hand in hand with God. God knows his chosen ones can be trusted with his word, instructions, messages, mandates and commandments.

4. Yes, everyday is shabat for the Saints and Masters that are given authority to act on behalf of God.


"Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

I will not dispute that in a spiritual sense when responsibility is taken into account and the further explanations of the passages above that we have shared.

What is taken should be returned. However, God also said that if the poor cannot pay back what they owe after seven years then the debt must be written off. Seven years is a karmic cycle and that is why people get the "seven year itch' if they did not marry the one that God ordained for them.

Love, for the Day is Near


"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law."

Indeed.

"The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Very good. However, in Greek there were many different words for love so which one is Paul talking about? This was not made clear to Christians.

"And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."

Correct....

"The night is nearly over; the day is almost here."

Yes, the dawn is on the horizon.

"So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light."

Yes this is a message for all humanity. However, how many know what the light is and how it becomes?

"Let us behave decently, as in the daytime"

Always do, those that come from God DO! Just like Jesus DID and DOES

"not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. "

Certainly not.

"Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature."


Poor Paul did he not learn that Jesus taught 'ORIGINAL GOODNESS" or were the teachings passed on from Paul changed by the Church to serve their purpose?

Now let's look at what the Aramaic says.

"For judges are not a menace to good works but to evil"

"For the ruler is a minister of God to you for good".


In other words in the Aramaic people are not meant to pay taxes at all unless God sends those that he has ordained to receive a collection of 10%. Humanity cannot be ordained or elected by man it must be done by God via one of his prophets or by God directly. In the same way that the young shepherd David was chosen. Not due to his bloodline but for his integrity and heart of conscience that was sincere in the love of God. It was the prophet that told the child David that he had been chosen. There be the moral of the story! Only the chosen are chosen by God and as the bible says many are called but few are chosen.

 

[veteran]

One thing is for sure, Ishmael was not a chosen one to receive God's Birthright, but Isaac, the son of Abraham, was.