Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[101G]

is not Jesus in us today, was he not in Titus when Jesus by him ordain Elders in every city?. Is not the work of Jesus through his body?, is not Jesus Ordaining today?. so who am I or anyone to withstand Jesus choice. did he not say he's no respect of person?. and in him there is neither male or female. so he ordain at his pleasing. the word of God is true.

who ordained Euodias, and Syntyche of Philippians 4 2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".
or,
Romans 16:12 "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord". all of these are women are Labours in the Lord.


P.S. this topic should read, "Do men prohibit womem from being Pastors"

 

[neophyte]

101G,while women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38).
The Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

A woman who is in submission to the elders in her local assembly is not taking authority over men if she has the elders' permission to share a word from scripture. 'Usurping' is to do with attitude. A male can usurp authority also. Being male does not give him authority. But being in submission to God and local leadership may give him the beginning of spiritual credibility with other men and women.

 

[Kidron]

is not Jesus in us today, was he not in Titus when Jesus by him ordain Elders in every city?. Is not the work of Jesus through his body?, is not Jesus Ordaining today?. so who am I or anyone to withstand Jesus choice. did he not say he's no respect of person?. and in him there is neither male or female. so he ordain at his pleasing. the word of God is true.

who ordained Euodias, and Syntyche of Philippians 4 2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".
or,
Romans 16:12 "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord". all of these are women are Labours in the Lord.


P.S. this topic should read, "Do men prohibit womem from being Pastors"

The same bible you are using to support your theory that "labor in the Lord", means "Women Pastor a Church".....is the same bible that tells you that Pastors are to be the "husband of one wife".




K

101G,while women could publicly pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1–16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11–14), since these were two essential functions of the clergy. Nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34–38).
The Church Fathers indicate that women do play an active role in the Church and that in the age of the Fathers there were orders of virgins, widows, and deaconesses, but that these women were not ordained.

Neophyte, ..
the way the RCC dealt with a woman who was called to "preach" during the middle ages was to ither burn her or imprison her.
See the bio of Jeanne Guyon for an update on RCC "church history" as related to treatment of "catholic" women.
Its a good thing that Mary the Mother of Jesus was not trying to preach in the middle ages or the RCC would have burned her at the stake also.




K

Hi neophyte,

A woman who is in submission to the elders in her local assembly is not taking authority over men if she has the elders' permission to share a word from scripture. 'Usurping' is to do with attitude. A male can usurp authority also. Being male does not give him authority. But being in submission to God and local leadership may give him the beginning of spiritual credibility with other men and women.

Dfly,

The topic we are discussing in my Thread relates to a POSITION of authority in a local body of Christ., and if this POSITION according to the bible, according to Paul, is reserved for the male only or is the position ae male or female option.
Now, if Paul stated that women were to remain "silent" in the church and not to "teach", then you are stretching the plausibility of the Bible texts by trying to argue that woman can be Pastors, when Paul said they cant even "teach".
Now, also notice that Paul said that a Pastor/Bishop must be the HUSBAND of one wife..
Did you notice that he didnt say........."Married only once"............No.....he said "HUSBAND".
So, now you have 3 aspects given to clarify the situation, as given by Paul...

1. Woman cant speak in church
2. Woman cant teach in church
3. A pastor is to be a HUSBAND.

So, i think your argument is going to have a real difficult time overcoming the bible.
But you can continue to give it a shot.






blessings,


K

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

is the same bible that tells you that Pastors are to be the "husband of one wife".

Which verse do you have in mind which relates to 'pastor'.

By the way, there is no such thing as the 'position' of a pastor - nor the other giftings in Ephesians 4:11, and this is another error of thinking on your part. These are callings. The person becomes the role in the body to which they have been called.

You are showing the limits of your understanding and experience when you say

you are stretching the plausibility of the Bible texts by trying to argue that woman can be Pastors, when Paul said they cant even "teach".

How do I know that?

Because no shepherd ever tries to 'teach' the sheep. Get it? P a s t o r? Oversight in Acts 20:28 is about tending the flock - service - and it is entrusted to people who are faithful in the details of everyday caring. It is nothing to do with book learning.

But, this kind of person, who knows how to look after sheep's feet, is qualified for both respect from members of the body, and authority.

I'm not sure if you know what 'authority' means, scripturally, but that's the only sense in which I use it. Maybe you should check it out?

 

[Faithful]

Now, this is an interesting topic, isnt it?

Ive 2 best friends who belong to different churches which both have a woman as the pastor.

Is this biblical, .....unbiblical?
Is this heresy or "out of order"?

Well, im an evangelist and a teacher and a minstrel, and ive been to seminary and ive studied the word for a long time.
I know what it says about this issue, but, im someone who would not condemn a woman if she felt called to be a pastor.
I would not encourage her to do it, because i can find no scriptural evidence to support this position as given by Paul.
As far as i can tell, Paul is pretty negative specific about women even being teachers in the body of Christ.....but on the other hand, i have to realize that Paul was also a jew, a pharisee, who was steeped in a very deep jewish theocracy which did not accept the liferole of a woman to be anything other then a baby maker or ministry helper, pretty much..
Maybe by now, had Paul lived another 2000 years, he would have softened his positioned a bit about woman being "teachers", as he said it was "him" who didnt let a woman teach, ....he never said this was a revelation from God he was sharing.
Did you notice this???
Would Paul in 2012 say that a woman cannot be a Pastor?..........yeah..
And the bible says clearly that a pastor/bishop is to be the , "husband of one wife"...
So, im pretty sure that eliminates a woman as a Pastor/Bishop..
So, unless you are a transsexual/transgender-minded girl you are not going to qualify for that scripture and if you are a transsexual/transgender-minded, you probably should not try to qualify, as a matter of fact, im certain you should not.

On the other hand, a woman can be in the ministry as any of the other 4 fold ministers.......she can evangelize, she can be an apostle, a teacher, (tho Paul might argue with this one)...
Certainly she can be a missionary, tho missionary/apostle are the back and front of the same coin.
She can do everything but be a pastor or perhaps a deacon, and yes there are some who are Pastors/deacons, however, this is not supported by Paul or the scriptures.
Does God allow it?........yeah, but this is not the same as him condoning it or approving it....tho he might bless it. (tho I really cant answer that one.)


Would i go to hear a woman preach?.... Sure, i would go hear Joyce Meyers if she came to Israel, however, Joyce does not claim to be a pastor., and this is because she understands God's perspective.
Would i go to hear the women pastors who i mentioned that pastor my 2 best friends?.... Sure i would..
However, I would have a problem with joining their church.
And if ither of the those women asked me my opinion about their position, i would just tell them what Paul says...
I would say........."are you a male by birth husband of one wife"?..........well, until you are, next subject please......"
However, i would not try to talk them out of their situation.
And the reason is......i think that (if they are really born again and have their NT doctrine in order) they are doing a good work, even if the work they are doing is not completely in alignment with Paul.
After all, Jesus himself said that if someone is not against us they are for us, and certainly a woman pastor who has given her life to the Lord is not against him.
Maybe she is out of >order, but at least she is on the right side.





K

As a believer the Apostle Paul taught that in Christ their is no male or female.
Christ taught that when he returns men and women will no longer marry but be like the angels.
When I think of the fact the Spirits power and the presence of the Spirit in a man or woman does not make them unequal otherwise it would lessen the Spirit in a woman than in a man to act.

Paul spoke to Gentiles who believed women to be the lesser in the sexes.
Deborah was a judge over Israel chosen by God and doing the job most thought only men did.
We have to believe that Gods free gift to men and women has no difference. That the Spirit makes all of them one and equal in the body of Christ.

It is not man who guides the believer it is the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the same for everyone.
But the gifts are given according to the Spirit who is doing Gods will.
Is he really to be prevented from giving the gift of preaching to a woman because of her sex?

Understanding the way of God means we are not lead by mans teachings but the teachings of God.
We have an high priest Jesus Christ, and we are all priest a royal nation of them.

1 Peter 2:9

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]9 [/sup]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

We are not priests like those chosen by Moses the line of the "Levitical" priesthood. We are priests by the new covenant which is unlike the first covenant made through Moses and noted especially in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Ordination is a manmade way for believers to serve here in the world. But the way of Christ was simply about being born and chosen by the truth and the presence of the Holy Spirit. No theological colleges, these men were not priests or from priestly families and had no training in the Temple. They were men who knew the Word of God in their scriptures and lived life as fishermen and other professions. But when chosen by God their lives were transformed by the truth and their abilities to speak were given them directly by God and their authority. No manmade church or rules can give a man the power to speak for God.
God himself teaches his own people and by the power of the Holy Spirit they speak according to Gods will.

Examples are:

Stephen Acts 6.
[sup]10 [/sup]And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

Acts 8.


[sup]29 [/sup]Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 11.

[sup]12 [/sup]And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Today is the day to realise that each should live according to the truth that God leads us in.
A love of truth is essential just as listening to what God is saying through the Spirit.
It was not a manmade teaching or the will of a man which brought us to God. It was Gods will through the truth about Jesus Christ
that brought us to God. The one teaching Christ is clear about is that we must all be taught by the Holy Spirit.
If you do not have the Spirit then you do not belong to Christ or God.

So these are not important issues because a woman in Christ is no different to a man in Christ if lead by the Holy Spirit.
Only the Holy Spirit can empower them and give them the gifts. We really need to remember the foundation from whence we came. That truth is the heart and love of the way we live. That Christ has given us a much better way and one which time and rust cannot decay.

We should not think that being a vicar or a pastor means you belong to Christ. Spirit are truth are the only markings of a true believer and they are all that is required to be a child of the most high God and a royal priesthood and people member.
Do not lose sight of the truth and that we are individually responsible by our own lives only.

 

[Kidron]

As a believer the Apostle Paul taught that in Christ their is no male or female.

Spiritually speaking, males and females are "in Christ" and "One" in God........but literally speaking,........."Pastors are to be the husband of one wife and women are not to teach".


Christ taught that when he returns men and women will no longer marry but be like the angels.

Actually, we will be exactly like Christ, which is to say a bit different then angels.


When I think of the fact the Spirits power and the presence of the Spirit in a man or woman does not make them unequal otherwise it would lessen the Spirit in a woman than in a man to act.

This has nothing to do with the order of the body of Christ with the man as the "head" of the woman.
Plz read 1st Corin 11:3 for an update, as you will be shocked to find out that the man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the church
And you'll be flabbergasted and perhaps depressed to learn that the woman was made for the man and not the man for the woman....1st Corin 11:9.


Paul spoke to Gentiles who believed women to be the lesser in the sexes.

Paul was speaking doctrine, and wrote letters.....


Deborah was a judge over Israel chosen by God and doing the job most thought only men did.

She's still not a Pastor.
Keep in mind we are talking ONLY about "pastors"...thats the discussion.........nothing about butterflies, or lilies in the golden fields, or ankle bracelets, or Old Testament prophets.

We have to believe that Gods free gift to men and women has no difference. That the Spirit makes all of them one and equal in the body of Christ.

Gifts of the Spirit are for all who have the Spirit, however, we are not discussing the 9 gifts, are we...........so, try to stay on topic or i'll begin to think you are an alt for Neophyte, or Foreigner, or Aspen as these 3 can never stay on topic.


It is not man who guides the believer it is the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the same for everyone.

Separate topic <<<<<<<<<<<alert<<<<<<<<!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But the gifts are given according to the Spirit who is doing Gods will.
Is he really to be prevented from giving the gift of preaching to a woman because of her sex?

Separate topic...............once again, the gifts of the Spirit given a believer have nothing to do with ordaining a male only into the position of PASTOR...



K

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Faithful

Very good post.


Hello again Kidron,

All your 'separate topic' alerts just show how little you understand.

Those who have been born from above are the Lord's body, whom He has graced with the charismata to enable them to do His will. Those who are additionally given the ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher, pastor, also are given gifts. The Lord doesn't expect any of us to fulfil our calling by Him, without them. It is the gifts of the Spirit which show us to be His body, truly living our lives enabled by His grace(s).

Your comments about the man being the head of the woman are also off topic. Even in marriage, a believer has gifts which are not shared with their spouse. Individually they are members of the body of Christ. They each have their own soul to save separately from the other.

If God calls a wife to pastor - and I know a wife who has been called to pastor - that is separate from her husband's calling. Both are able to fulfil God's calls on their lives, without disturbing the marriage relationship, because both have put Christ first. Individually, they are yoked to Christ before being yoked to each other in marriage. Neither of them would have married the other apart from that foundation in God.

And if a woman is single, or widowed, what if God wants her all to Himself for the rest of her life? Who are you to argue with Him about that? The question is not 'should she be a pastor', but should she obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29

 

[101G]

Greeting in the Name of the the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 neophyte, the scriptures you stated are taken out of context, and the understanding of it is incorrect. proverbs tells us that in our getting, get understanding. so lets look at these scriptures with the wisdom of God and get the understanding.


1 Timothy 2:11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection".

1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence".

the word "women" here is the Greek word,

G1135 gune (goo-nay') n.

1. a woman

2. (specially) a wife

[probably from the base of G1096]

KJV: wife, woman

Root(s): G1096



lets look at definition #2. (specially) a wife. question, How do we know that these verses are talking about a a "WIFE", instead of women in General.

the answer is revealed in verse 15, listen, 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

now, the only "woman", who is suppose to bare children legally, is a "Married Woman", hence "WIFE". so we can clearly see that it is a wife that the Apostle is talking about here. and two the husband is suppose to teach his wife what he knows. so she should be subject to her husband, meaning learning from him, and learn in silence, which means be quiet so that she may learn of him. by giving her husband her full attention (silence), she is now able to learn what he knows fully, so that they as Husband and wife will speak the same thing. just like when one is in school we give our full attention, (silence) unto our teachers, so that we may learn. knowing, and understanding that, lets go to 1 Corinthians 14:34 to see why the apostle said, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law". so here again in Corinthians the apostle is addressing "WIVES". how do we know this?. the answer is in verse 35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church". the only woman who have a husband is a "WIFE". so in keeping with 1 Timothy 2:11 and 12. the wives should learn from their husband at home before speaking in the church?. question WHY?. answer verse 33. 1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints". so there is our answer. NO CONFUSION IN THE CHURCHES. if the husband get up a say one thing, and his wife follow with something totally different to what her husband just have said, then there is CONFUSION. because the husband and wife should be on ONE ACCORD. that's why husbands and wives should study together so that when they come to Church they are in totally agreement. then other may learn and be in PEACE with each other. division cause confusion. so speak the SAME THING, if not you have CONFUSION.

if one read the whole context of 1 Timothy 2, one will see that one's Church life starts in the HOME. get it right at HOME and you will have it right at Church. a stable social life at HOME reflect a stable life at Church for all to see.

and to kill another bird with a stone so to speak, in 1 Corinthians chapter 11 verse 3. it's not talking about authority, but origins, the woman is from the man, the man and woman is from Christ, meaning Spirit/Flesh. and Christ is from the one Spirit/without Flesh. the key to understanding this verse is the word Christ instead of Jesus. who is the head/or authority of EVERYTHING. just understand why the apostle used Christ instead of of the name Jesus. and two, as for head Covering of "WIVES" in the Church, JESUS is her Head Covering.



hoped this helped.

101G

 

[neophyte]

You're all wrong. nowhere in the Holy Bible is any woman ever ordained the Biblical way. By the way, not one Protestant minister/pastor is ordained the Bible way either.

To make sure that His work would be continued , Jesus established the priesthood---------- " On behalf of Christ, therefore, we are acting as ambassadors, God, as it were, appealing through us"[ 2nd Cor.5:20 ]

"Everyhigh priest taken from among men is appointed for men in the things pertainig to God, that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins " ------- [ Heb. 5:1 ]

Jesus having one wife ; His Church. Priests have one wife -the Church. The apostles ordained only men Acts 13:3; 14:22; 1:24-26; and Titus 1:5.

This Authority for the priesthood comes directly from Jesus to only His chosen Apostles/ replacements/successors - [ Luke 10:16 ]

"........ and shouldst appoint prespyters in every city, as I myslf directed thee to do " [ Titus 1:5 ] [ 1 Cor. 7:32-34 ]

 

[101G]

2 neophyte,

I think I know what's your problem. if you will give us your definition of the Word "MAN".

 

[neophyte]

2 neophyte,

I think I know what's your problem. if you will give us your definition of the Word "MAN".

Pertaining to this issue,as follows-the" Son" of the Father, Jesus =' Man', Priests/presbyters = Men,
Sorry 101G but Jesus was a Man not a Woman.

 

[101G]

2 neophyte,
I see you misunderstood my question. I asked what is the definition of the word "MAN". a woman is a man also, just a female man. let me give it to you from scripture.
Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".

now to fully understand what I'm saying. If I was to ask you what the first woman Name is you might say EVE, and if you do, you would be wrong.
and if i would ask you when the woman was made, a. before the Man, on the same day of the man, or after the man. if you say after, then you would be wrong.

see a woman is a man. because she came out of MAN. MAN is a generic term for MANKIND, (meaning Male, and Female)

101

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

But I'm sure you've heard of a shepherdess.


To 101G,

Exactly - a womb-man.

 

[Faithful]

Kidron.

The post contains the truth about the bibles position.
Female and male Christians make up the priesthood of God.

Those in Spirit do not require a teacher to teach them.
Something that Paul spoke about in his teachings about those still requiring milk when they should be eating meat
and teaching.

The body of Christ is not a building and the Church is not a body of ordained priest in the earthly or OT manner.
If you read Jeremiah 31:31-34 the new covenant is not like the old.

As a believer the Apostle Paul taught that in Christ their is no male or female.
Christ taught that when he returns men and women will no longer marry but be like the angels.
When I think of the fact the Spirits power and the presence of the Spirit in a man or woman does not make them unequal otherwise it would lessen the Spirit in a woman than in a man to act.

Paul spoke to Gentiles who believed women to be the lesser in the sexes.
Deborah was a judge over Israel chosen by God and doing the job most thought only men did.
We have to believe that Gods free gift to men and women has no difference. That the Spirit makes all of them one and equal in the body of Christ.

It is not man who guides the believer it is the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the same for everyone.
But the gifts are given according to the Spirit who is doing Gods will.
Is he really to be prevented from giving the gift of preaching to a woman because of her sex?

Understanding the way of God means we are not lead by mans teachings but the teachings of God.
We have an high priest Jesus Christ, and we are all priest a royal nation of them.

1 Peter 2:9

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]9 [/sup]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

We are not priests like those chosen by Moses the line of the "Levitical" priesthood. We are priests by the new covenant which is unlike the first covenant made through Moses and noted especially in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Ordination is a manmade way for believers to serve here in the world. But the way of Christ was simply about being born and chosen by the truth and the presence of the Holy Spirit. No theological colleges, these men were not priests or from priestly families and had no training in the Temple. They were men who knew the Word of God in their scriptures and lived life as fishermen and other professions. But when chosen by God their lives were transformed by the truth and their abilities to speak were given them directly by God and their authority. No manmade church or rules can give a man the power to speak for God.
God himself teaches his own people and by the power of the Holy Spirit they speak according to Gods will.

Examples are:

Stephen Acts 6.
[sup]10 [/sup]And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

Acts 8.


[sup]29 [/sup]Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 11.

[sup]12 [/sup]And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Today is the day to realise that each should live according to the truth that God leads us in.
A love of truth is essential just as listening to what God is saying through the Spirit.
It was not a manmade teaching or the will of a man which brought us to God. It was Gods will through the truth about Jesus Christ
that brought us to God. The one teaching Christ is clear about is that we must all be taught by the Holy Spirit.
If you do not have the Spirit then you do not belong to Christ or God.

So these are not important issues because a woman in Christ is no different to a man in Christ if lead by the Holy Spirit.
Only the Holy Spirit can empower them and give them the gifts. We really need to remember the foundation from whence we came. That truth is the heart and love of the way we live. That Christ has given us a much better way and one which time and rust cannot decay.

We should not think that being a vicar or a pastor means you belong to Christ. Spirit are truth are the only markings of a true believer and they are all that is required to be a child of the most high God and a royal priesthood and people member.
Do not lose sight of the truth and that we are individually responsible by our own lives only.

It was difficult to follow your post because you avoided the truth and took little parts and attached something irrelevant to it.
Please answer the actual points in my post and avoid taking things out of context.

Thank you.

 

[101G]

I don't understand why most Christian think that one must have a husband or a wife to be in leadership roles in church. if one is married, fine, but being married is not a qualification for leadership. if so, the Apostle Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Jesus the Christ himself and many other would be disqualified.

but we're not in the flesh, if indeed the Spirit of God is in you. the flesh profit NOTHING, not in the Spirit. for the scripture states, Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". but, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace".

Love and Peace
101G

 

[Strat]

Why not ask this question,does the modern church care whether or not the Bible prohibits female pastors.....the answer to that would be no.

 

[101G]

I wish we were like the Berea, Acts 17:11 " These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few".

101G

 

[Kidron]

Hello again Kidron,

Those who have been born from above are the Lord's body, whom He has graced with the charismata to enable them to do His will. Those who are additionally given the ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher, pastor, also are given gifts. The Lord doesn't expect any of us to fulfil our calling by Him, without them. It is the gifts of the Spirit which show us to be His body, truly living our lives enabled by His grace(s).


Notice "pastor", as one of the "called" ministers?
This is not for a woman.
Man only.
"husband of one wife".

Your comments about the man being the head of the woman are also off topic. Even in marriage, a believer has gifts which are not shared with their spouse. Individually they are members of the body of Christ. They each have their own soul to save separately from the other.

In the body of Christ, there is an order, a chain, of authority.
Its all male.
"Christ is the head of the Church as the man is the had of the woman".
"The woman is made for the man,""
"Adam was made and then the woman was made FROM Adam", etc.


If God calls a wife to pastor -


God will never call a woman to be a pastor.
Male only.
"Husband of one wife".

And if a woman is single, or widowed, what if God wants her all to Himself for the rest of her life? Who are you to argue with Him about that? The question is not 'should she be a pastor', but should she obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29

God already wants all of us all to himself...
.This is why Paul tells you that the widows should remain unmarried and if possible, all of us should stay single.
However, as this is not possible, because of sexual desire, Paul says that marriage is honorable, BUT, you will have trouble in the world
because of FAMILY, related to being married, and he would keep you from this situation if possible.

But he knows that in the case of most people, they are not going to be able to control their physical appetites, so, = get married.



K

Kidron.

The post contains the truth about the bibles position.
Female and male Christians make up the priesthood of God.

The "in Christ" position of all believer is equal, yep........however, the ministry positions, where God calls specific ones, is not the same as "all are Priests".
Just like, all are not apostles.
Women are not authorized by the bible to be Pastors.
Thats the bottom line.

Those in Spirit do not require a teacher to teach them.
Something that Paul spoke about in his teachings about those still requiring milk when they should be eating meat
and teaching.

Its true that the HS is the teacher, but its also true that "teachers" are a part of the 5 fold body of Christ ministry.
Cant avoid it, just coz you dont like it.

The body of Christ is not a building and the Church is not a body of ordained priest in the earthly or OT manner.
If you read Jeremiah 31:31-34 the new covenant is not like the old.

If you read Romans, Galatians, and some of Hebrews, you'll be able to understand exactly why the New Testament covenant of FAITH, is nothing like the OT covenant of Law.




K

I don't understand why most Christian think that one must have a husband or a wife to be in leadership roles in church. if one is married, fine, but being married is not a qualification for leadership. if so, the Apostle Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Jesus the Christ himself and many other would be disqualified.

but we're not in the flesh, if indeed the Spirit of God is in you. the flesh profit NOTHING, not in the Spirit. for the scripture states, Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". but, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace".

Love and Peace
101G

I don't understand why most Christian think that one must have a husband or a wife to be in leadership roles in church. if one is married, fine, but being married is not a qualification for leadership. if so, the Apostle Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Jesus the Christ himself and many other would be disqualified.

Being single does not disqualify you from the ministry.
However, being a woman does disqualify you from being a pastor.




K

 

[Faithful]

The authority of the Spirit in man or woman is not lessened because of each persons sex.
Those in Spirit do not require teaching. A royal priesthood as Peter calls those men and women born of Spirit and Truth.




1 Peter 2:9

King James Version (KJV)

[sup]9 [/sup]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

If you were to use the measurement of the OT teachings then no gentile and no Jew who was not born of the tribe of Levi could be a priest. Even Elizabeth was from a priestly family called a daughter of Aaron and married to Zacharias the father of John the Baptist.




[sup]5 [/sup]There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.


The Lord calls each of us to serve and gives us the gifts to do the works already prepared for us to do.
Being a vicar or a pastor is a worldly institution because ordination is not needed with those who belong to Christ.
Christ made it quite clear that the only true place to worship God is no longer a place like Jerusalem but it is within the heart of
a person by the power of the truth and Holy Spirit. The oil is not something the world can give or being ordained as a pastor and minister of the worldly church.

It has to be in the heart of man by truth and the Spirit. The bible always refers to man because woman is classed as man.
Taken out of a man she is made from man.Woman is man. I think sometimes we can get caught up in what the bible would refer to as useless arguments. I really believe that this falls under that heading which was referred to by Paul.

The Holy Spirit does his own works through each of us. The kingdom is not of this world as Christ made clear.
It is within us.