Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

In other words, a universal priesthood in the Old Covenant did not exclude the possibility of a distinct ministerial priesthood as well. It would be natural then to expect the same in the New Covenant. And indeed, that is precisely what we discover.

No it isn't. The Roman church's dogma has been figured out in reverse. It already had a priesthood - and control of the scriptures in a language very few ordinary people were using (Latin) for centuries - before it had to explain its 'ministerial priesthood'.

As a result, the reason God chose a tribe (in this case, Levi) for priestly service, is not part of your explanation - but it is the reason that there is no such thing as a 'ministerial priesthood' in the true Church of Jesus Christ.

From our previous discussions I know that you are wedded to Roman doctrine regardless of the truth which is in Jesus Christ, but He is not the Truth for nothing, and His promise that the truth will make you free, is ... well... the truth. Something for you to look forward to, perhaps.

 

[lawrance]

Hi MR ROSENBERGER,



I'm interested in your use of the word 'Priest', because it sounds Roman or Anglican. Is it either of those?

Do you think of a 'priest' as being the same as a 'pastor'?


Lastly, what do you think of Peter reminding the Church of this prophecy? Do you think he was speaking only to men?

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation...'

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ....9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10

Well i am with Neophyte has said.
How can one think they are united priest hood when all are divided amongst themselves. it's like amateur cook dishing the grub up and the end result is just a joke.
Priest the same as a pastor, no they are just like a deacon as they are not as dedicated to Christ that's for sure as they have a wife and their family to look after and that responsibility would come before their flock. and a woman with child can't be their for the flock 24 7
The Pope is the one with the keys etc as this is biblical.

 

[Stan]

Hebrews 10:19-22

[sup]19 [/sup]Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, [sup]20 [/sup]by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, [sup]21 [/sup]and since we have a great priest over the house of God, [sup]22 [/sup]let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.


It is clear that Jesus is our Saviour, Priest and Mediator. The ONLY one there is.

Well i am with Neophyte has said.
How can one think they are united priest hood when all are divided amongst themselves. it's like amateur cook dishing the grub up and the end result is just a joke.
Priest the same as a pastor, no they are just like a deacon as they are not as dedicated to Christ that's for sure as they have a wife and their family to look after and that responsibility would come before their flock. and a woman with child can't be their for the flock 24 7
The Pope is the one with the keys etc as this is biblical.

I see you say this is biblical a lot, but I don't see any scripture to back up your assertions.

 

[Watchwithme]

Now, this is an interesting topic, isnt it?


Is this biblical, .....unbiblical?

Its not that interesting, no. Its Unbiblical.

A women pastor or a homosexual pastor is like someone on a japanese motor bike being a member of the hells angels. It's not gonna happen, it's not Christianity!

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Watchwithme,

There are many women pastors all over the world. Sometimes it's because of their denomination (eg Methodist) and sometimes it's because it's cultural for women to meet only with women; and then there is the matter of God's giftings and calling on a life. There is also the matter of biblical history, in which not only women (very occasionally) had a great deal to do with the outworking of God's plans on this earth, and, a time when a Gentile was a 'shepherd' to Israel - at God's command. I believe He has broken so many of the rules - we like to create for ourselves - already, that the only way it's possible for there to be only male pastors to God's people, is for all the husbands of Christian wives to be converted, and, for all the men whom He calls to serve Him as pastors, to say 'Yes, Lord; your servant hears', and to obey Him. Why else do you think there are women pastors?

 

[Stan]

Its not that interesting, no. Its Unbiblical.

A women pastor or a homosexual pastor is like someone on a japanese motor bike being a member of the hells angels. It's not gonna happen, it's not Christianity!

All that righteousness without ONE scripture. In case you haven't noticed the OP is about what the BIBLE has to say, NOT about peoples opinions.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Its not that interesting, no. Its Unbiblical.

A women pastor or a homosexual pastor is like someone on a japanese motor bike being a member of the hells angels. It's not gonna happen, it's not Christianity!

Actually, Sony Barger was quoted in his book saying, "Japanese make better bikes. If the Hells Angels get their *&^% together they'd ride those." (slightly paraphrased due to length of time since reading).

What makes this analogy so interesting is a few things.

One, Sonny the founder of the club, believes Japanese motorcycles are superior. At this time he has no problem with members riding them, except, it goes against the bi-laws of the club which state, members must ride Harley Davidson motorcycles 1200 cc and up.

Not only is this more interesting because of that, but, even the Hells Angels have a written word/agreement members must adhere to. On top of that, they can all refer back to a written word incase of any descrepencies.

So, to make a case, something must be presented aside from an opinion, or just making a claim.

 

[Watchwithme]

I have no issue with woman and homos who want to masquerade as clergy. The RC have been doing it for ions, just don't call it biblical Christianity.
The burden of proof that women as clergy is biblical is on you guys not the church, so lets see all the scriptures to back it up.

*Waits patiently for hell to freeze over!"

 

[HammerStone]

Watchwithme, you're welcome to address my posting: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16167-does-the-bible-prohibit-a-woman-from-being-a-pastor/page__st__30#entry155814

I've not really had an acceptable response from the con (anti-women-preaching) side. I have an open mind on this issue; I've gone searching for reasons not to based on Timothy, but to be honest I conclude every time that women can.

Let me know how you handle those details.

Thanks.

 

[dragonfly]

I've not really had an acceptable response from the con (anti-women-preaching) side.

Here you have touched on a point which has not been properly opened out - of whether a woman preaching is the same as a woman pastor?

Personally, I don't think so. Although some may fill both roles, my observation is that that's less common than one or the other.

 

[Watchwithme]

Watchwithme, you're welcome to address my posting: http://www.christian..._30#entry155814

I've not really had an acceptable response from the con (anti-women-preaching) side. I have an open mind on this issue; I've gone searching for reasons not to based on Timothy, but to be honest I conclude every time that women can.

Let me know how you handle those details.

Thanks.

The church has no need to argue. You already know the churches position on the topic and you only raise it to create controversy. People who like to argue only do so because they don't know what they believe yet.

Here is a link, why reinvent the wheel?

 

[Stan]

The church has no need to argue. You already know the churches position on the topic and you only raise it to create controversy. People who like to argue only do so because they don't know what they believe yet.

Here is a link, why reinvent the wheel?

What exactly is your title in real life Watch? Are you the Pope? or Metropolitain? I personally have a hard time with people who say they speak for THE CHURCH and certainly do not. As well I have a hard time with people who are condescending and dismissive.
Are you sure you're not RC?

 

[Watchwithme]

What exactly is your title in real life Watch? Are you the Pope? or Metropolitain? I personally have a hard time with people who say they speak for THE CHURCH and certainly do not. As well I have a hard time with people who are condescending and dismissive.
Are you sure you're not RC?

I am the church - Get used to it! I'm also part of an eternal royal priesthood which shall never pass away and I've been assigned to hang around here until I can witness you walking in the spirit - so far I've seen quite the opposite!

Actually, Sony Barger was quoted in his book saying, "Japanese make better bikes. If the Hells Angels get their *&^% together they'd ride those." (slightly paraphrased due to length of time since reading).

What makes this analogy so interesting is a few things.

One, Sonny the founder of the club, believes Japanese motorcycles are superior. At this time he has no problem with members riding them, except, it goes against the bi-laws of the club which state, members must ride Harley Davidson motorcycles 1200 cc and up.

Not only is this more interesting because of that, but, even the Hells Angels have a written word/agreement members must adhere to. On top of that, they can all refer back to a written word incase of any descrepencies.

So, to make a case, something must be presented aside from an opinion, or just making a claim.

I like your style. Check out our written word/agreement sometime. AKA the bible.

 

[Stan]

I am the church - Get used to it! I'm also part of an eternal royal priesthood which shall never pass away and I've been assigned to hang around here until I can witness you walking in the spirit - so far I've seen quite the opposite!

WOW! I have nothing to say to that, BUT Paul does....

1 Cor 2:6-16
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [sup]7 [/sup]No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. [sup]8 [/sup]None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [sup]9 [/sup]However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
[sup]10 [/sup]these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. [sup]11 [/sup]For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [sup]12 [/sup]What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. [sup]13 [/sup]This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. [sup]14 [/sup]The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. [sup]15 [/sup]The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, [sup]16 [/sup]for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Watchwithme]

WOW! I have nothing to say to that, BUT Paul does....

1 Cor 2:6-16
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [sup]7 [/sup]No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. [sup]8 [/sup]None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [sup]9 [/sup]However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
[sup]10 [/sup]these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. [sup]11 [/sup]For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [sup]12 [/sup]What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. [sup]13 [/sup]This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. [sup]14 [/sup]The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. [sup]15 [/sup]The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, [sup]16 [/sup]for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.

AMEN BROTHER PAUL

 

[HammerStone]

If you're unable to address something, always just deflect the question to the Christian-ness of the other person, works every time, right?

Should I make the argument that I'm more Christian than you because I started a Christian forum...? (Sarcasm.)

I'd just like to see someone actually address those passages. Clearly, if you apply everything Paul says, then there are some contradictions unless he means more than he says when he addresses women in the Timothy passages. Again, I've gone into Scripture supposing that Scripture teaches women cannot be preachers/pastors, but the evidence would suggest otherwise.

Here you have touched on a point which has not been properly opened out - of whether a woman preaching is the same as a woman pastor?

Personally, I don't think so. Although some may fill both roles, my observation is that that's less common than one or the other.

Well, the Prophetess Anna was preaching at the temple, but there is some room there I suppose:

Luke 2:37-38 ESV
She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day. And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi HammerStone,

I hadn't noticed this properly: '... and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.'


Thanks

 

[Stan]

If anyone were to read ALL the accounts of Priscilla and Aquila , you would see a wife and husband that were VERY involved in proselytizing with Paul. In fact Paul called them his co-workers, Romans 16:3 and as well in 16:9 we note that the church met at their house. What is also of significance is that Priscilla is always mentioned first, which is a sign of respect and honour in addressing a couple as usually the man is mentioned first. Many scholars agree that this deference to her, would indicate that Priscilla lead that particular church that met in her home.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the scripture DO NOT teach that women CANNOT be pastors, as so far, NO ONE has supplied scripture to refute this fact.

 

[Watchwithme]

If you're unable to address something, always just deflect the question to the Christian-ness of the other person, works every time, right?

Should I make the argument that I'm more Christian than you because I started a Christian forum...? (Sarcasm.)

I'd just like to see someone actually address those passages. Clearly, if you apply everything Paul says, then there are some contradictions unless he means more than he says when he addresses women in the Timothy passages. Again, I've gone into Scripture supposing that Scripture teaches women cannot be preachers/pastors, but the evidence would suggest otherwise.



Well, the Prophetess Anna was preaching at the temple, but there is some room there I suppose:

You started the forum? Wow, Can i ask why?

That said I will read your link.

If you're unable to address something, always just deflect the question to the Christian-ness of the other person, works every time, right?

Should I make the argument that I'm more Christian than you because I started a Christian forum...? (Sarcasm.)

I'd just like to see someone actually address those passages. Clearly, if you apply everything Paul says, then there are some contradictions unless he means more than he says when he addresses women in the Timothy passages. Again, I've gone into Scripture supposing that Scripture teaches women cannot be preachers/pastors, but the evidence would suggest otherwise.



Well, the Prophetess Anna was preaching at the temple, but there is some room there I suppose:

The old testament was the end of the prophets. SIMPLE> Moving on.

 

[Stan]

The old testament was the end of the prophets. SIMPLE> Moving on.

Really. What do you have to say about Eph 4:11 then?