Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed¿

[Randy Kluth]

Anybody?

The Restrainer may be a hidden reference to the emperor and to the Roman Empire, which is inferred in Dan 2 to be a Kingdom of Iron. In Dan 7 the same is inferred in the image of a great and terrible 4th Beast, which will rule until the end of the age.

How did the Roman Empire restrain the appearance of the Antichrist. Antichrist must consolidate 10 divided states. In order for 10 divided states to appear out of the old Roman Empire, that Empire had to have its imperial strength weakened by, I think, democracy.

As democracy has grown in the West, the imperial tradition has weakened, and independent European States have formed. Ultimately, Antichrist will defeat 3 of those States and unite it, weak as it is, under his own iron grip. Ultimately, I believe that after 1260 days he will lose his grip, and the nations will begin to gather to Armageddon, to challenge his rule. Highly speculative material!

The Early Church Fathers apparently felt the Empire was the restraint you refer to. So do I.

 

[Joseph77]

Usually, if not universally, what people "felt" was right, was very wrong - as written "there is a way that "seems" right (feels right) to a man, but the end thereof is destruction. (as it has happened).....

What the Father in heaven REVEALS is TRUTH, in perfect harmony with all of His Word, as always, as written , as revealed in Scripture.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Usually, if not universally, what people "felt" was right, was very wrong - as written "there is a way that "seems" right (feels right) to a man, but the end thereof is destruction. (as it has happened).....

What the Father in heaven REVEALS is TRUTH, in perfect harmony with all of His Word, as always, as written , as revealed in Scripture.

I don't agree. The Scriptures say there is wisdom with good counsel. To ignore that is foolish. When the Scriptures say people follow a way that seems right to them, we are talking about ungodly people who are self-confident in their carnal desires, simply because it seems all people in the world indulge themselves in the same desires. It seems right, but it is wrong.

But godly counsel is a wise thing to seek. It is wise to humble yourself and receive what others may give you--sometimes even enemies! The point is, God speaks to us in any way He sees fit, whether through the Church Fathers, through Catholics, through the newspapers, or through pastors and prophets. We need to be open to how God wishes to speak to us at any moment.

To dismiss the Church Fathers we would do at our own peril. They devoted themselves to establishing orthodox doctrine for the Church universal, and this task they accomplished well. If you believe in the Trinity you owe them a debt. If you believe in the deity of Christ, you owe them a debt. If you believe the Father and the Son are 2 separate persons, you owe them a debt.

It's a cheap shot to shoot at people from afar. Let's quote them if we think they're wrong. Otherwise, all we're doing is spreading suspicions. That ain't "the truth!" If you're not doing this, please don't say these things in the context of discussing the Church Fathers, or in connection with referencing the Church Fathers?

 

[Joseph77]

Oh, that explains a lot - trusting sources opposed to Scripture, thus not able to believe Scripture. Nothing more needed.

 

[Timtofly]

Oh, that explains a lot - trusting sources opposed to Scripture, thus not able to believe Scripture. Nothing more needed.

The church fathers did not live in today's environment. I guess consulting their works is not wrong. However applying what they knew, and obviously all they did not know, seems to make me scratch my head, and ask how does what they wrote even apply 1500+ years later.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

their whole being is full of LIFE/ LIGHT/ JESUS !

How does one become filled with Light?

 

[Joseph77]

How does one become filled with Light?

Who said "You are the light of the world"
and "If your eye is generous, your whole body is full of light. If your eye is stingy, your whole body is full of darkness - no light . " ?

et al

 

[Randy Kluth]

Oh, that explains a lot - trusting sources opposed to Scripture, thus not able to believe Scripture. Nothing more needed.

Certainly not for you. Fools don't receive reasonable input. I'm hoping you receive *any reasonable input*--even if it's from someone you don't care for.

 

[Joseph77]

Certainly not for you. Fools don't receive reasonable input. I'm hoping you receive *any reasonable input*--even if it's from someone you don't care for.

When Jesus calls something historical or religious (especially what men call good) an abomination or accursed, I agree with Jesus.
Nuff said.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When Jesus calls something historical or religious (especially what men call good) an abomination or accursed, I agree with Jesus.
Nuff said.

The trouble is when Jesus didn't actually say that and you misrepresent Him. "You shall not take the Lord your God in vanity." In other words, Don't misrepresent what He is saying!

So we've been talking about the Church Fathers. And do you know what the Scriptures say we are to be with respect to Christian leaders:
1) treat them w/ double honor
2) treat them w/ respect
3) listen to sage advice

But you do a disservice to their ministries when you dismiss them, and then claim God has done the same. I'm certainly not saying they're perfect. I'm just saying that God operated through them and did many good things through them. And yet here you are, saying God rejects them. Amazing!

1 John 4.19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

 

[Joseph77]

"I know there are some among you who are so full of themselves they never listen to anyone,"

So we've been talking about the Church Fathers. And do you know what the Scriptures say we are to be with respect to Christian leaders

The Scripture was "left behind" too much, as your posts indicates, because the ones you trust and respect , any you bring up, must first be tested even as the Apostles all were, and their messages, BEFORE accepting them.
So,
"you decide" - talk either about the cf, or about true Christian leaders (preferably alive ones today, if you know any) who pass the same testing , and are proven same as the Apostles were.

 

[Joseph77]

Most people never hear the truth, so, yes , they are amazed when finally they do hear it, IF they ever hear it....

Somewhere in the MSG translation it is written "SURPRISE! SALVATION COMES!"

Truthfully, it would not be a SURPRISE!, if what people learned and really thought they knew , if that was truth.... SALVATION is a SURPRISE! because they don't.
They don't expect to find out they need it, and
also because people are so wicked, they are surprised if they learn the truth that not only does God LOVE THEM, HE SENT HIS OWN SON TO DIE FOR THEM, IN THEIR PLACE (even when they were /are/ still His Enemy) (unrighteous) ! SURPRISE OF SURPRISES !

And yet here you are, saying God rejects them. Amazing!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed?

No, people that don't have the Holy Spirit don't know.

 

[Joseph77]

No, people that don't have the Holy Spirit don't know.

Is copel*nd a good example of those who don't know ? (I think it is obviously so)

 

[Timtofly]

No, people that don't have the Holy Spirit don't know.

All are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Yet you are correct that most are not aware of the fact. Some even have a form of godliness, with no power at all. Some humans accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and do not exercise their full authority as a believer. Some exercise the Holy Spirit, but only shallow Christians, still on the milk of the original gifts. Very very few, have The Word in the fullest sense of immersing themselves in the Word, with the mind of Christ.