Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed¿

[charity]

Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed?

Anybody?

'And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
.. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
.... only he who now letteth will let,
...... until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
.. whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
.... and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
.. with all power and signs and lying wonders,
.... and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
...... because they received not the love of the truth,
........ that they might be saved.'
(2 Thessalonians 2:6-10)

Hello @Waiting on him,

You ask, 'Does the Holy Spirit prevent wickedness from being revealed?' Then in a later entry refer to verses 6-8 quoted above, which refers to 'What withholdeth', and 'Who now letteth'. Here we have the words, 'What?' and 'Who?' which show that there are two questions to be answered here and not just one. 'That Wicked' (v8) is the Antichrist (the lawless one): so the questions are:-

1) 'What withholdeth' (or 'restrains') him being revealed until the time is right?
2) 'Who now letteth' (or 'holds fast')?

* Something is preventing 'the man of sin' (v.3) from being revealed until the time for his revelation. Your question, @Waiting on him, asks if it is the power of the Holy Spirit which is preventing him being revealed. I do not think it is, for two reasons:-

(a) For there is no Scripture to support this theory.
(b) It is supposed by some that when the Church is 'raptured' that the Holy Spirit will depart from the earth, but if this is true, it means that believers such as the faithful Jewish remnant, who will have to live through this dread period, are left without the Holy Spirit's aid! The Lord Jesus describes this time as a time of -

'great tribulation, such as hath not been
from the beginning of the world until now,
no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days had been shortened,
no flesh would have been saved'
(Matthew 24:21-22) ​

- If ever those who determine to be faithful whatever the cost, even life itself, will need the Holy Spirit, it is then.​

* First of all the words 'withhold' (or 'restrain') and 'let' (or 'holds firm') are translated from the same Greek word, 'katecho' meaning ('to hold fast' - G2722) and occurs 19 times in the New Testament. So What is it that holds fast the lawless one (Revelation 13:11-18), and Who is it that holds something fast?'

* There is one interpretation of this difficult passage which is worth considering, one which has Scriptural support. Revelation 9:1-2 and Revelation 11:7 tells us that the man of sin is held fast by the 'bottomless pit' or better 'abyss' until 'the appointed season' or time of his manifestation to the world. That gives us the answer to the first question re. 'What withholdeth?'

* The second question concerning 'Who letteth' (or 'holds fast') finds its solution in Satan, who holds fast to his possessions in the aerial regions (see Ephesians 2:2 & 6:12) until he is taken out of the way, or removed. How this happens Revelation 12:7-17 describes. There is war in heaven; Michael and his angels fight against Satan and the fallen angels under his control, and the Deceiver is cast down to the earth (Revelation 12:9-12) with terrible results, leading to the Great Tribulation. When this happens, as a last desperate throw, Satan calls up his man from the abyss (Revelation 13:1+), and for a short time he dominates the whole world. Satan receiving world worship through the Beast.

* These things Paul would have told the Thessalonians in person (2 Thessalonians 2:5), so his words are few; making difficulty for us, who read it not having had the same opportunity to hear the fuller explanation.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

* The 'man of sin' (v.3 & Revelation 13:1-10) and 'that Wicked' (v.8 & Revelation 13:11-18) are the two beasts of Revelation 13.

 

[Joseph77]

for a short time he dominates the whole world.

Ephesians 2, God's Word says he has already, since the first century, 'dominated' all society ("sons of disobedience") in the world.
(with Galatians also: key words: society is pernicious(death dealing) )

 

[charity]

Charity said:-
* The second question concerning 'Who letteth' (or 'holds fast') finds its solution in Satan, who holds fast to his possessions in the aerial regions (see Ephesians 2:2 & 6:12) until he is taken out of the way, or removed. How this happens Revelation 12:7-17 describes. There is war in heaven; Michael and his angels fight against Satan and the fallen angels under his control, and the Deceiver is cast down to the earth (Revelation 12:9-12) with terrible results, leading to the Great Tribulation. When this happens, as a last desperate throw, Satan calls up his man from the abyss (Revelation 13:1+), and for a short time he dominates the whole world. Satan receiving world worship through the Beast.

Ephesians 2, God's Word says he has already, since the first century, 'dominated' all society ("sons of disobedience") in the world.
(with Galatians also: key words: society is pernicious(death dealing) )

Hello @Joseph77,

I agree that as the prince of this world, and the god of this age, Satan does rule in this world of sin. However, when I said that 'he' dominates the world for a short time: I was not referring to Satan, but to the Beast through whom Satan receives world worship at the end (Revelation 13).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

Hello @Joseph77,

I agree that as the prince of this world, and the god of this age, Satan does rule in this world of sin. However, when I said that 'he' dominates the world for a short time: I was not referring to Satan, but to the Beast through whom Satan receives world worship at the end (Revelation 13).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

"he", or "his" office, has done so continuously since long before the reformation, right ?
i.e. babylon, worldwide....

 

[charity]

"he", or "his" office, has done so continuously since long before the reformation, right ?
i.e. babylon, worldwide....

Hello @Joseph77,

I think I follow your meaning: but I do not believe that the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church fall into those categories.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

"he", or "his" office, has done so continuously since long before the reformation, right ?
i.e. babylon, worldwide....

Ecclesiastes 3:18 KJV
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

 

[Waiting on him]

Who can oppose the beast??

 

[Joseph77]

... ...
I think I follow your meaning: but I do not believe that the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church fall into those categories.

Who can oppose the beast??

Not many. "Few" according to Jesus ever find out....

 

[Joseph77]

Ecclesiastes 3:18 KJV
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

... and later,
"
I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.
For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge—
God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[Timtofly]

John 16:8-13

8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —
9 about sin, in that people don’t put their trust in me;
10 about righteousness, in that I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;
11 about judgment, in that the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now.
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.


Verse 11 states that the Holy Spirit is the one who judges Satan. The only one who can restrain Satan.

 

[Joseph77]

John 16:8-13

8 “When he comes, he will show that the world is wrong about sin, about righteousness and about judgment —
9 about sin, in that people don’t put their trust in me;
10 about righteousness, in that I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;
11 about judgment, in that the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now.
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.


Verse 11 states that the Holy Spirit is the one who judges Satan. The only one who can restrain Satan.

I think you pulled too much out of context here.
See "Judge" and "Judgment" throughout all of God's Word for a better idea, we hope.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Church Fathers viewed the Roman Empire as the entity delaying the appearance of the Antichrist. In Dan 7 we read that the 4th Beast, identified today as the Roman Empire, would eventually break up into a confederation of 10 states under the Antichrist. What prevented the breakup and the consolidation of these 10 states was the Roman Empire.

In history, the Roman Empire was actually Christianized, and eventually became the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire. Rome utilized Christianity to provide order and cohesion to the former Roman Empire, and itself prevented the division of Europe into Antichristian states.

The idea that the Holy Spirit prevents Antichrist from appearing is part of Pretribulationism, which I don't adhere to. If the Holy Spirit was the "Restrainer," I think Paul would've identified him as such. Nor is it even possible, I believe, for this to be interpreted in a Pretribulational sense, since Paul is, in fact, teaching Postribulationism! Christ cannot appear, for his Church, until after the revelation of and the destruction of the Antichrist.

The reason Paul did not come out and say, explicitly, that the Restrainer was the Roman Empire is because that would've put the Roman Empire in a bad light, which would not be prudent for Paul to do! The Apostle John likewise cloaked his references to the Roman Empire in mysterious, cryptic terms in the book of Revelation for the very same reason!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Still not exactly following you in terms of the conversation. How do any of these verses point to 2 Thess 2? Or rather...how do they prove me incorrect when I say that no other verse directly references 'the restrainer'? Even if you are pulling together some point that speaks to the issue, doesn't the fact that "the restrainer" is not mentioned still rather concrete? Not trying to be daft here, just honestly trying to see how on earth pulling together several other verses that do not outright state 'the restrainer' is anything but a conversation based on theories, ideas and assumptions...even if they're very good ones.
Again: please note; I am NOT arguing for or against any particular view or idea. I am simply saying that a conversation about this topic cannot be narrowed down to a 'Yes' or 'No', or a "this is definitely it, here are the bible verses that absolutely prove it"....simply because we have one (1) verse that directly names "the restrainer". People pull together theories and ideas on who it is based on other verses that do NOT directly name or refer to this person. Hence the deep conversation and confusion on the topic. This is all I am saying.

Ok. See your point. All kinds of debates over one verse. But that is also the point: is it sound to then build a doctrine around one verse? Maybe the better word for “let” until removed...is hinder?
2 Thessalonians 2:1–8 (YLT): And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him, 2that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived.
3 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because—if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed—the son of the destruction, 4who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God—the day doth not come. 5Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, these things I said to you? 6and now, what is keeping down ye have known, for his being revealed in his own time, 7for the secret of the lawlessness doth already work, only he who is keeping down now will hinder—till he may be out of the way, 8and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,

only he who is keeping down now will hinder? 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

what or who hinders prayers? Can we really say it is the Holy Spirit which hinders prayers when the word says “praying in the Spirit” and in Him the answers is always “yea”? But we are attributing hindered prayers and he who prevents prayers to the Spirit of God, when He said what “hinders” and to be removed from your midst:Isaiah 58:9Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

it is not the Holy Spirit to be removed.
But the yoke of bondage and corruption.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ok. See your point. All kinds of debates over one verse. But that is also the point: is it sound to then build a doctrine around one verse? Maybe the better word for “let” until removed...is hinder?
2 Thessalonians 2:1–8 (YLT): And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him, 2that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived.
3 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because—if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed—the son of the destruction, 4who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God—the day doth not come. 5Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, these things I said to you? 6and now, what is keeping down ye have known, for his being revealed in his own time, 7for the secret of the lawlessness doth already work, only he who is keeping down now will hinder—till he may be out of the way, 8and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,

only he who is keeping down now will hinder? 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

what or who hinders prayers? Can we really say it is the Holy Spirit which hinders prayers when the word says “praying in the Spirit” and in Him the answers is always “yea”? But we are attributing hindered prayers and he who prevents prayers to the Spirit of God, when He said what “hinders” and to be removed from your midst:Isaiah 58:9Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

it is not the Holy Spirit to be removed.
But the yoke of bondage and corruption.

Very Good post, for some that day has came!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Very Good post, for some that day has came!

Galatians 5:6-9 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. [7] Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? [8] This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. [9] A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

1 Corinthians 9:11-12 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? [12] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Romans 15:21-22 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. [22] For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.

Acts 8:36-37 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Very Good post, for some that day has came!

Was thinking last night what has God withheld? A God of Blessings? So the question should be “now you know what withholds” 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Romans 8:31-32 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Genesis 22:10-13, Job 38:12-17
“Now you know what withholds” “what hinders prayers” In John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:14-15 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Colossians 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Psalm 84:11-12 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. [12] O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.

“No good thing will he withhold” He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[Joseph77]

His own son. Delivered up by His own plan, mutually in perfect agreement (echad eternally)....

Yet people refuse to turn to Him, refuse to give up their own life.... and ask for many things, amiss... for themselves, selfishly, thus that is "how shall He" not freely give all things... (like eternal life, for most obvious example), and most to be terrified of (re Hebrews: "be terrified, lest anyone fall short") ...

“No good thing will he withhold” He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

His own son. Delivered up by His own plan, mutually in perfect agreement (echad eternally)....

Yet people refuse to turn to Him, refuse to give up their own life.... and ask for many things, amiss... for themselves, selfishly, thus that is "how shall He" not freely give all things... (like eternal life, for most obvious example), and most to be terrified of (re Hebrews: "be terrified, lest anyone fall short") ...

“Yet people refuse to turn to Him” Matthew 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! [38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. [39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


2 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Interested in what you see hinders or withholds?

 

[Joseph77]

Really?
What hinders God's Work? (people) (sinners) ('Christians')

What withholds? People do - when they have a squinty, greedy, selfish eye. They are not generous, and their whole being is full of darkness.

Those who are generous, as God is, as God says, their eye is generous, and their whole being is full of LIFE/ LIGHT/ JESUS !

Interested in what you see hinders or withholds?

 

[Joseph77]

This seems better here:
"When I think of the greatness of this great plan

I fall on my knees before God the Father (from whom all fatherhood, earthly or heavenly, derives its name),

and I pray that out of the glorious richness of his resources he will enable you to know the strength of the spirit’s inner re-inforcement—that Christ may actually live in your hearts by your faith.

And I pray that you, firmly fixed in love yourselves, may be able to grasp (with all Christians) how wide and deep and long and high is the love of Christ—and to know for yourselves that love so far beyond our comprehension.

May you be filled though all your being with God himself!

Now to him who by his power within us is able to do far more than we ever dare to ask or imagine—

to him be glory in the (assembly of Ekklesia) through Jesus Christ for ever and ever, amen!"

Ecclesiastes 3:18 KJV
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.