Does Understanding Eschatology Prove You Are Saved?

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe my post is clear enough that you need to read it again.

No, it was not clear enough. Do you have something to hide? Is there some reason you want me to guess as to the answer instead of you just telling me? Do you believe that someone can be saved and not believe as you do as it relates to eschatology? Yes or no. If you can't answer yes or no to this simple question, then I will assume you're trying to hide something here.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, it was not clear enough. Do you have something to hide?

What part of my post do you not understand, exactly? Quote the part of my post that you think is not clear.

Do you believe that someone can be saved and not believe as you do as it relates to eschatology? Yes or no.

What did my post say about this?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What part of my post do you not understand, exactly? Quote the part of my post that you think is not clear.



What did my post say about this?

LOL. You are unbelievable. Even answering a yes or no question is too difficult for you. You were not clear about this, as I already said. So, why are you afraid to clarify it for me?

You said "Well, understanding Eschatology is NOT the determining factor of who is saved or a false Christian.", which would seem to indicate that you don't believe that ones understanding of eschatology is a determining factor in salvation. But, then you also said "People believe in a false eschatology because they have not been moved by the Spirit to believe the truth of the kingdom of Christ" which gives the impression that you believe it is a determining factor in salvation. So, just answer the simple question if you have nothing to hide. Do you believe that only those who have the same eschatology as you are saved? Yes or no?

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. You are unbelievable. Even answering a yes or no question is too difficult for you. You were not clear about this, as I already said. So, why are you afraid to clarify it for me?

I do not. I was hoping that you would quote my post first to see exactly what part you are having a problem with.

You said "Well, understanding Eschatology is NOT the determining factor of who is saved or a false Christian.", which would seem to indicate that you don't believe that ones understanding of eschatology is a determining factor in salvation.

True. People are not saved because of their understanding of eschatology; it is God's unmerited favor and Grace.

But, then you also said "People believe in a false eschatology because they have not been moved by the Spirit to believe the truth of the kingdom of Christ" which gives the impression that you believe it is a determining factor in salvation.

No this is not what I said. Read again:

"Believing in the correct eschatology is not the determining factor; it is the result of the determining factor."

Do you know what is a determining factor for salvation? I hope you believe salvation is God's Grace alone, not work or understanding Eschatology, agreed? Then I continued:

In other words, the only reason that you, I, or anyone else believes the truth is the "faithfulness" of Christ bestowed upon us through His Spirit within us. People believe in a false eschatology because they have not been moved by the Spirit to believe the truth of the kingdom of Christ."

What I’m saying is that all Christians are saved by the unmerited favor and grace of God. Among them, some saved Christians believe the correct eschatology because the Holy Spirit, in His sovereign grace, has granted them understanding. This is the result of God’s determining favor. At the same time, there are also saved Christians who hold to false eschatology because the Spirit has not moved them to embrace the truth of Christ’s kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

True. People are not saved because of their understanding of eschatology; it is God's unmerited favor and Grace.

You could have just answered yes or no to my question, but you must just like to watch yourself type. So, based on this comment, your answer to my question is no. And that's the correct answer. There does seem to be some here who do think that one's eschatology is a determining factor in one's salvation and I feel sorry for those people and have to wonder if they are even saved themselves since they don't even understand what is required for salvation.

No this is not what I said. Read again:

"Believing in the correct eschatology is not the determining factor; it is the result of the determining factor."

What I quoted, which was something else you said besides what you quoted here, is what you said. So, I don't know why you're saying it's not what you said.

Do you know what is a determining factor for salvation? I hope you believe salvation is God's Grace alone, not work or understanding Eschatology, agreed?

Not God's grace alone. God's grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Is there some reason you are leaving faith out of this?

Then I continued:

In other words, the only reason that you, I, or anyone else believes the truth is the "faithfulness" of Christ bestowed upon us through His Spirit within us. People believe in a false eschatology because they have not been moved by the Spirit to believe the truth of the kingdom of Christ."

What I’m saying is that all Christians are saved by the unmerited favor and grace of God. Among them, some saved Christians believe the correct eschatology because the Holy Spirit, in His sovereign grace, has granted them understanding. This is the result of God’s determining favor. At the same time, there are also saved Christians who hold to false eschatology because the Spirit has not moved them to embrace the truth of Christ’s kingdom.

I'm not a Calvinist, so I don't buy into all this Calvinist lingo you are referring to here. Christians are saved by God's grace through putting their faith in Jesus Christ instead of themselves or anyone else for salvation. You think that you have to be a Calvinist in order to believe in salvation "by the unmerited favor and grace of God", but that is not the case. If someone hears or reads the word of God and in response willingly chooses to humble themselves and acknowledge that they are a lost sinner and can't save themselves and need God's mercy and for Jesus to save them, is that a case of salvation by merit? No, it's not.

This idea that God decides to give understanding to some Christians regarding eschatology and not to others for reasons only He knows is ridiculous, also. Any Christian can have the correct understanding of eschatology if they ask God for wisdom and to show them the truth regarding eschatology (James 1:5-7). Those who believe in false eschatology have not the truth regarding eschatology because they do not ask not for it, in my opinion. They'd rather use their own carnal minds to understand eschatology instead of asking God for wisdom and relying on the Holy Spirit for understanding.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You think that you have to be a Calvinist in order to believe in salvation "by the unmerited favor and grace of God", but that is not the case. If someone hears or reads the word of God and in response willingly chooses to humble themselves and acknowledge that they are a lost sinner and can't save themselves and need God's mercy and for Jesus to save them, is that a case of salvation by merit? No, it's not.

Of course, we acknowledge upon hearing the Gospel, that we are lost sinners and need God's mercy and Grace because He has already prepared our hearts for repentance and come to Christ. This is all God's Work.

John 1:12-13

• "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
• Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

They were not born from above by their own free will, but by God's "sovereign" will and good pleasure. Q.E.D., free will to choose to come to Christ is a fable; no man can come to Christ of his own free will. That, is the deception of another gospel.

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65

• "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Again, by Christ's own mouth, "free will" is another gospel that contradicts the gospel of Christ. And I believe by this word, we are being directly admonished against falling into this idea of another gospel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course, we acknowledge upon hearing the Gospel, that we are lost sinners and need God's mercy and Grace because He has already prepared our hearts for repentance and come to Christ. This is all God's Work.

John 1:12-13

• "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
• Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

They were not born from above by their own free will, but by God's "sovereign" will and good pleasure. Q.E.D., free will to choose to come to Christ is a fable; no man can come to Christ of his own free will. That, is the deception of another gospel.

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65

• "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Again, by Christ's own mouth, "free will" is another gospel that contradicts the gospel of Christ. And I believe by this word, we are being directly admonished against falling into this idea of another gospel.

Of course, we acknowledge upon hearing the Gospel, that we are lost sinners and need God's mercy and Grace because He has already prepared our hearts for repentance and come to Christ. This is all God's Work.

Why does God command all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) if repentance is His work and He supposedly chose for only some, and not all, to repent? You make God out to be disingenuous by commanding some people to repent who He knows cannot possibly obey His command.

God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2). It seems that you do not think God is genuine about wanting all people to be saved since you think salvation is completely up to Him and that He purposely made it so that only relatively few are saved (Matt 7:14, Matt 22:14).

John 1:12-13

• "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
• Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

They were not born from above by their own free will, but by God's "sovereign" will and good pleasure. Q.E.D., free will to choose to come to Christ is a fable; no man can come to Christ of his own free will. That, is the deception of another gospel.

You missed a couple of things from that passage. The first thing you missed is that one must receive Him, which means to accept and trust in Him, before becoming a born again child of God. You have regeneration preceding faith, but this passage has faith preceding regeneration. When we are born of the Holy Spirit it is an act of the Holy Spirit to give us a new heart and new outlook on life and that is only God's doing, not man's. But, you miss that He does that for those who accept Christ and "believe on His name". That passage does NOT say that man's will does not factor into salvation. It does because God holds everyone responsible to repent and believe. But, man cannot change his own heart as only the Holy Spirit can do so that's why the actual process of being born of God (born again, Born of the Spirit) is not by the will of man. Man can't change himself. He has to acknowledge that he is a lost sinner who can't save himself and can't be who God wants him to be without God's mercy and His help.

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65

• "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Again, by Christ's own mouth, "free will" is another gospel that contradicts the gospel of Christ. And I believe by this word, we are being directly admonished against falling into this idea of another gospel.

So, you think it's okay to cherry pick scripture and draw conclusions only from those scriptures, do you? That results in contradicting other scripture. Is the following verse in your Bible?

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Jesus draws all people to Himself, but the only ones who come to Him are those who accept Him. Do you understand that the Holy Spirit can be resisted? Some who are drawn do not take the next step and put their trust in Christ, but instead deny Christ and the gospel and resist the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Why does God command all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) if repentance is His work and He supposedly chose for only some, and not all, to repent? You make God out to be disingenuous by commanding some people to repent who He knows cannot possibly obey His command.

God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2). It seems that you do not think God is genuine about wanting all people to be saved since you think salvation is completely up to Him and that He purposely made it so that only relatively few are saved (Matt 7:14, Matt 22:14).

That's a straw man. He "is" Saviour of the whole world. We never deny scripture. He's just not Saviour of the whole world as you define it, but as He defines it. In other words, there is no Saviour of the whole world but Christ, and the whole world includes every kindred, tongue, tribe and nation (the whole world). But not everyone "in" the whole world, as that would be nonsensical as Christ made it perfectly clear that everyone in the whole world will never be saved, as Hell will be heavily populated.

I think you misunderstood what Paul and John talked about.

2nd Timothy 1:9-11

• "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
• But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
• Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles."

In 1st John 2 the Apostle is declaring the same thing as is being declared here. Namely, that Christ is not only the Saviour of theirs (the Jews), but also of the whole world (the other nations) as well. There is none other name whereby men may be saved. Not the Jews only, but the whole world of Gentiles chosen before the foundation of the world. As it is written:

Revelation 5:9

• "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

Revelation 14:6

• "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

Clearly, Christ is not only the Saviour of the Jewish Elect, but of the whole world of Gentiles Elect. And just as clearly, He is not the Saviour of everyone "IN" the world as you think!

You missed a couple of things from that passage. The first thing you missed is that one must receive Him, which means to accept and trust in Him, before becoming a born again child of God. You have regeneration preceding faith, but this passage has faith preceding regeneration. When we are born of the Holy Spirit it is an act of the Holy Spirit to give us a new heart and new outlook on life and that is only God's doing, not man's. But, you miss that He does that for those who accept Christ and "believe on His name". That passage does NOT say that man's will does not factor into salvation. It does because God holds everyone responsible to repent and believe. But, man cannot change his own heart as only the Holy Spirit can do so that's why the actual process of being born of God (born again, Born of the Spirit) is not by the will of man. Man can't change himself. He has to acknowledge that he is a lost sinner who can't save himself and can't be who God wants him to be without God's mercy and His help.

I disagree. The Orthodox Christianity preaches we had no free will because we all were in spiritual bondage/slavery to sin, that's why God had to intervene on our behalf.

Hebrews 2:14-15

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Orthodox Christianity teaches that our will wasn't free and in fact we could do nothing until Christ set us free from our spiritual bondage. Likewise, what Orthodox Christianity preaches about our responsibility to come to Christ is this:

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

So then, according to the authority of the unadulterated scriptures, you are in error concerning authorship, will and ability.

So, you think it's okay to cherry pick scripture and draw conclusions only from those scriptures, do you? That results in contradicting other scripture. Is the following verse in your Bible?

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Jesus draws all people to Himself, but the only ones who come to Him are those who accept Him. Do you understand that the Holy Spirit can be resisted? Some who are drawn do not take the next step and put their trust in Christ, but instead deny Christ and the gospel and resist the Holy Spirit.

Satan already owns the unregenerate and he reigns as ruler over them so that they serve and obey him. That's why God calls him the prince (ruler) of this world and says he is cast out (for the elect).

John 12:31-31

• "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
• And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

He's not cast out in judgment that liberated everyone in the whole world, but only for the elect. For the rest, the Devil still goes about as their taskmaster holding them in spiritual bondage. During the millennial kingdom, despite being bound, with Satan went about as a roaring lion, his gates of hell could not defeat the millennial advance of Christ's kingdom. Because the simple truth is, Satan was bound for the sake of the elect of the world, not for the sake of everyone in the world. That is the "whole world", "all men", etc. that is qualified. It is the Elect of the world, for they are the world Christ talked about. Christ only come to save "HIS PEOPLE" that Father draws them, not everyone in the world.

 

[Wick Stick]

Does Understanding Eschatology Prove You Are Saved?​

I would say that placing an emphasis on eschatology probably proves that the person is immature.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I would say that placing an emphasis on eschatology probably proves that the person is immature.

Writing a title is considered immature? LOL.

 

[Wick Stick]

Writing a title is considered immature? LOL.

It wasn't directed at you, personally. It's based on experience. It has more to do with those I've conversed with in the past.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's a straw man. He "is" Saviour of the whole world. We never deny scripture. He's just not Saviour of the whole world as you define it, but as He defines it. In other words, there is no Saviour of the whole world but Christ, and the whole world includes every kindred, tongue, tribe and nation (the whole world). But not everyone "in" the whole world, as that would be nonsensical as Christ made it perfectly clear that everyone in the whole world will never be saved, as Hell will be heavily populated.

I think you misunderstood what Paul and John talked about.

2nd Timothy 1:9-11

• "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
• But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
• Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles."

In 1st John 2 the Apostle is declaring the same thing as is being declared here. Namely, that Christ is not only the Saviour of theirs (the Jews), but also of the whole world (the other nations) as well. There is none other name whereby men may be saved. Not the Jews only, but the whole world of Gentiles chosen before the foundation of the world. As it is written:

Revelation 5:9

• "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

Revelation 14:6

• "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

Clearly, Christ is not only the Saviour of the Jewish Elect, but of the whole world of Gentiles Elect. And just as clearly, He is not the Saviour of everyone "IN" the world as you think!



I disagree. The Orthodox Christianity preaches we had no free will because we all were in spiritual bondage/slavery to sin, that's why God had to intervene on our behalf.

Hebrews 2:14-15

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Orthodox Christianity teaches that our will wasn't free and in fact we could do nothing until Christ set us free from our spiritual bondage. Likewise, what Orthodox Christianity preaches about our responsibility to come to Christ is this:

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

So then, according to the authority of the unadulterated scriptures, you are in error concerning authorship, will and ability.



Satan already owns the unregenerate and he reigns as ruler over them so that they serve and obey him. That's why God calls him the prince (ruler) of this world and says he is cast out (for the elect).

John 12:31-31

• "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
• And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

He's not cast out in judgment that liberated everyone in the whole world, but only for the elect. For the rest, the Devil still goes about as their taskmaster holding them in spiritual bondage. During the millennial kingdom, despite being bound, with Satan went about as a roaring lion, his gates of hell could not defeat the millennial advance of Christ's kingdom. Because the simple truth is, Satan was bound for the sake of the elect of the world, not for the sake of everyone in the world. That is the "whole world", "all men", etc. that is qualified. It is the Elect of the world, for they are the world Christ talked about. Christ only come to save "HIS PEOPLE" that Father draws them, not everyone in the world.

Excellent job of twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say. I assume that was your goal. Mission accomplished. Too bad what you want it to say isn't what it actually says. God graciously offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11) because He wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that is why Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2) and why God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). But, you don't want to accept that, so you change scripture to fit your doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

So, would you try to say this is only talking about the elect, also, even though it refers to all people and differentiates between those who do not believe and those who do?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Excellent job of twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

I did not twist Scripture. I quoted God’s Word exactly as it is written and explained it in context. If you disagree, that’s your issue with what God has clearly said — not with me.

I assume that was your goal. Mission accomplished.

Yes — mission accomplished. My goal is to bring you the Gospel truth, whether you welcome it or not. And judging by your reaction, Jeremiah 5:14 fits perfectly: God’s Word from my mouth is like a fire, and you smell like you’ve been singed.

God graciously offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11) because He wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that is why Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2) and why God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). But, you don't want to accept that, so you change scripture to fit your doctrine.

False. That’s your interpretation, not what Scripture actually teaches. If Christ truly died for all people in the saving sense, yet most reject Him, then His work would be returning to God void — which Scripture says is impossible (Isaiah 55:11). Your position simply doesn’t hold up biblically.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

So, would you try to say this is only talking about the elect, also, even though it refers to all people and differentiates between those who do not believe and those who do?

Ahh, I can see why you misread 1st Timothy 4:10. Let read in KJV:

1Ti 4:10
(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This has been translated from its original to English and in the modern era we usually understand "specially" to always mean "most, but not all." Thus people are predisposed to see a dichotomy between the words "Savior of all men" and the words "them that believe." In reality, there is no contrast between the Savior of all men and them who believe, as they are referring to the same group of people. The "all men" is actually qualified by noting it is "them that believe." What most people get hung up on is the word translated specially. Indeed there is the popular interpretation that this language is to show that God is the Savior of all men on the planet, both saved and unsaved. In other words, in the sense of God being their Savior by providing habitation, life, food, rain, air, security, etc. They understand this verse as "apparently" declaring that the Savior has done this for all mankind, although to the unsaved it is done in less of a degree than for believers. Thus, specially. However, none of that supposition is mentioned in that text or even implied, and I do not believe that in this context this interpretation of what is in the text fits. I'm not saying that what they are stating about God is untrue, rather I'm saying I do not believe this is what the word is teaching in "this verse." Nor does this interpretation fit seamlessly with what is being discussed in this context. The context "is Christians" and their sanctification in this world, and how they labor and suffer because they put their trust in God, who is the Savior of all. There is not the slightest indication "within this text" (in my humble opinion) that this is referring to the Lord being a Savior or Deliverer of unbelievers. It is talking about instruction and teaching of the church.

1st Timothy 4:11

• "These things command and teach."

The whole context is about believers, and the only time it addresses the unbelieving is in noting their seared conscience and hypocrisy.

I do understand why some look at the two parts of this sentence as contrasting. It is because they believe the word translated specially always meaning mostly. Therefore, they contrast the "all" in that sentence with their understanding of "specially believers" in the sentence.

The word translated specially is the Greek [malista], meaning chiefly. But by extension also means particularly or specifically by way of [mala meaning "very much" or to a higher degree. [malista] is the neuter plural of the superlative [mala]. Thus chiefly or particularly is singling out the "all men" as those who believe. Not contrasting them as being a part of believers who have God as a savior also.

As far as the wording "all men," like so many other verses, the word all in 1st Timothy 4:10 is not all without exception, it is specially / specifically "all who believe." In other words, rather than those who believe being a dichotomy or contrast to the words all men, it is qualifying the word "all" as all who believe. Much the same as it is in this verse:

Hebrews 2:9-10

• "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
• For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."

It is true Christ tasted death for every man, but it was for every man "who would believe" and not every man in the world. The Greek word translated "every" there is [pas], the exact same word translated "all" in 1st Timothy chapter 4 verse 10! Did Christ taste death for every man? ABSOLUTELY. He did. Did he taste death for every single man in the world without exception? Absolutely not. If He had, every single man without exception would have had his sins atoned for and could never come under wrath of God. In a word, Universalism.

The word of God is absolutely true and trustworthy. But the word translated "every" [pas] is qualified by the text where that Scripture says we were sons brought to glory. Not every person on earth, but every man who was a son brought to glory. It is the same thing with 1st Timothy 4:10. He is the Savior of all men, but that is qualified by the words "specially" or specifically those who believe. Not all, especially, but all, particularly (giving emphasis; to point specifically) those who believe.

Acts 25:26

• "Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write."

This verse is saying the apostle brought him forth before you, and "specifically" before king Agrippa. For example, it's pointing to King Agrippa specifically! Again:

1st Timothy 5:8

• "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

This verse is saying that if any will not provide for his own, and specifically for those of his own house, he is worse than an unbeliever. "His own" is being qualified or explained as specifically his own household. It's not contrasting his own with his own household, it's qualifying his own as His own household. Specially is not showing a dichotomy, rather iin these contexts it is saying they are one and the same. The same with specially in 1st Timorthy.

1st Timothy 4:10

• "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

Look carefully and observe that the last part of this verse is where the apostle Paul clarifies the statement "all men" by "qualifying" or making the first part conditional on this last I put in bold. Christ is the Saviour of ALL men, specifically (particularly, specifically) believers. It is "not" specially as in He is savior of "these 'plus' others," but of all men. He is conditioning the all, as categorically "all who believe." All without distinction, not all without exception!

1st Timothy 2:5-6

• "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
• Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

This is not saying He uis the Savior of all men on earth because He gave Himself a ransom, but all who come to belief. This "all" in this verse is the theme of whom Christ came to save, testified throughout the New Testament, and is the theme in 1st Timothy chapter 4. One Saviour who died for all. Not all, and especially believers, but all, specifically those who believe. This verse is illustrating that there is only one name whereby ALL Men must be saved. And that does not include those who will never be saved. That would make no sense if we hold to the sovereignty and grace of God. The mystery of God dying for all was kept a secret from the beginning, and now in due time is being revealed through the Spirit. Salvation is specially to the believers, and to all men, the Gentiles as well as the Jews. Thus it is to all men who believe, without distinction, by this one Savior Jesus Christ.

Selah!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ahh, I can see why you misread 1st Timothy 4:10. Let read in KJV:

1Ti 4:10
(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This has been translated from its original to English and in the modern era we usually understand "specially" to always mean "most, but not all." Thus people are predisposed to see a dichotomy between the words "Savior of all men" and the words "them that believe." In reality, there is no contrast between the Savior of all men and them who believe, as they are referring to the same group of people. The "all men" is actually qualified by noting it is "them that believe."

1st Timothy 4:11

• "These things command and teach."

The whole context is about believers, and the only time it addresses the unbelieving is in noting their seared conscience and hypocrisy.

I do understand why some look at the two parts of this sentence as contrasting. It is because they believe the word translated specially always meaning mostly. Therefore, they contrast the "all" in that sentence with their understanding of "specially believers" in the sentence.

The word translated specially is the Greek [malista], meaning chiefly. But by extension also means particularly or specifically by way of [mala meaning "very much" or to a higher degree. [malista] is the neuter plural of the superlative [mala]. Thus chiefly or particularly is singling out the "all men" as those who believe. Not contrasting them as being a part of believers who have God as a savior also.

As far as the wording "all men," like so many other verses, the word all in 1st Timothy 4:10 is not all without exception, it is specially / specifically "all who believe." In other words, rather than those who believe being a dichotomy or contrast to the words all men, it is qualifying the word "all" as all who believe. Much the same as it is in this verse:

The word of God is absolutely true and trustworthy. But the word translated "every" [pas] is qualified by the text where that Scripture says we were sons brought to glory. Not every person on earth, but every man who was a son brought to glory. It is the same thing with 1st Timothy 4:10. He is the Savior of all men, but that is qualified by the words "specially" or specifically those who believe. Not all, especially, but all, particularly (giving emphasis; to point specifically) those who believe.

Acts 25:26

• "Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write."

This verse is saying the apostle brought him forth before you, and "specifically" before king Agrippa. For example, it's pointing to King Agrippa specifically! Again:

1st Timothy 5:8

• "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

This verse is saying that if any will not provide for his own, and specifically for those of his own house, he is worse than an unbeliever. "His own" is being qualified or explained as specifically his own household. It's not contrasting his own with his own household, it's qualifying his own as His own household. Specially is not showing a dichotomy, rather iin these contexts it is saying they are one and the same. The same with specially in 1st Timorthy.

1st Timothy 4:10

• "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

Look carefully and observe that the last part of this verse is where the apostle Paul clarifies the statement "all men" by "qualifying" or making the first part conditional on this last I put in bold. Christ is the Saviour of ALL men, specifically (particularly, specifically) believers. It is "not" specially as in He is savior of "these 'plus' others," but of all men. He is conditioning the all, as categorically "all who believe." All without distinction, not all without exception!

You say you don't twist scripture, yet you are doing it over and over again. No matter how much you twist scripture, you can't change the truth which is that God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that is why He offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11) and why He commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and why Jesus came to sacrifice Himself for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2). You are the one who has to change scripture to make it fit your doctrine, not me.

Also, I don't buy any of your nonsense about 1 Timothy 4:10. You go out of your way to try to change the meaning of the verse. The Greek word translated as "especially" or "specially" in that verse does NOT mean specifically, as you're trying to say. The verse is not saying God is the Savior of all people, specifically of those who believe, as if "those who believe" are the "all people" that Paul referred to. No. In every other verse the word is used, it means especially or mainly/chiefly and is a word used to differentiate between people or things. In 1 Timothy 4:10, it says God is the Savior of all people, but that is especially true of those who believe since only those who believe have Him as their personal Savior. But, He offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11), which is why He is the Savior of all people in that sense.

You used Acts 25:26 and 1 Timothy 5:8 as examples where the word supposedly means specifically rather than especially. Wrong. You didn't look at the context of either verse.

Acts 25:23 And on the morrow, when Agrippa was come, and Bernice, with great pomp, and was entered into the place of hearing, with the chief captains, and principal men of the city, at Festus' commandment Paul was brought forth. 24 And Festus said, King Agrippa, and all men which are here present with us, ye see this man, about whom all the multitude of the Jews have dealt with me, both at Jerusalem, and also here, crying that he ought not to live any longer. 25 But when I found that he had committed nothing worthy of death, and that he himself hath appealed to Augustus, I have determined to send him. 26 Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write.

You are trying to say that when it says "I have brought him before you", it's talking only about King Agrippa. Wrong. Look at the context. Paul was not just brought before King Agrippa, but also Bernice and "the chief captains, and principal men of the city". But, he was mainly or especially brought before King Agrippa. Not specifically King Agrippa since he wasn't the only one.

Now, let's look at how you misinterpreted 1 Timothy 5:8 because of your doctrinal bias.

1 Timothy 5:3 Honour widows that are widows indeed. 4 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God. 5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. 6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. 7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless. 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Verse 8 here is talking about someone providing for his own family, including a mother or grandmother who is a widow. But, that mother or grandmother would not be part of his household. He should especially provide for this who are in his own household (his wife and kids), but he should help provide for others in his family as well, including his widowed mother, if necessary. So, the Greek word translated as "especially" or "specially" does not mean "specifically" in 1 Timothy 5:8, as you are trying to claim. It NEVER means that. Look it up for yourself and you should see that: G3122 - malista - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

 

[Scott Downey]

Well, understanding Eschatology is NOT the determining factor of who is saved or a false Christian. The determining factor is the Holy Spirit of truth, or more correctly put, the lack thereof. Faithful Eschatology, or the correct belief in the truth of the divine Kingdom of God, is a gift given of God. We don't believe the truth concerning the true Kingdom of Christ simply because we are smarter, wiser, or more educated than the next guy; we believe the truth because it is gifted to us to believe. Otherwise (because of our sin nature), we'd be just as deceived as any other sinner in this world. Believing in the correct eschatology is NOT the determining factor; it is the result of the determining factor. In other words, the only reason that you, I, or anyone else believes the truth is the "faithfulness" of Christ bestowed upon us through His Spirit within us. People believe in a false eschatology because they have not been moved by the Spirit to believe the truth of the kingdom of Christ. That's the "unpalatable" truth that man doesn't like, but that God's Word delineates. As hard as it may be to understand, not everyone is meant to read God's word and actually have ears to hear God's Word. Only those endowed with God's unmerited favor to do so! That means God is the sovereign, not man!

Mark 4:11-12

• "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
• That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

Those in the church who do not know (and who never will know) the mystery in the truth of the kingdom of God, "don't know for a reason!" The reason is, it was never given to them to know!

So no, eschatology is not the determining factor; believing or receiving the truth in love is! Lest we forget, there is a reason that some believe the truth and some do not. Just as there is a reason that the nation of Israel (in part) does not believe in the eschatology of Christ, but there is a reason that some, or a remnant, do.

Likewise, there is a reason some of the churches are deceived in believing in a particular form of Judaism called Dispensationalism, Preterism and others know the truth of this deception. It's not their eschatology, it's the Spirit of truth given them, or not given them. Just as there's a reason some of the church know who the great whore of Babylon is, and others struggle with recognizing the imagery of that parable. ...the very same Spirit of truth, or the lack thereof.

Some people insisted that understanding Eschatology does not make them a fake Christian. No, it is taking offense at the Word of God that makes them false Christians. Being an adversary of God's truth makes them a false Christian. Denying God's sovereign grace makes them false Christians. Denying that he is a Jew only because they are one inwardly makes them a false Christian. But as Christ said to His messengers:

"Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables, That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

His words, not Mine! I merely bear testimony of it, I didn't author it.

Mark 4:11-12

• "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
• That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

Pretty clear that the above people do not know God or Christ, they are on the outside. And their sins are not forgiven them.
That easily shows the fact they are not saved.

God has promised His people will know the truth and have their sins forgiven them.
Fact is saved people have an anointing from God to know the truth, all the others, Christ does not know them, and they push false teaching.
However, it is not like they will remain in that state forever, as we were all once just like them, but God had mercy on us and saved us.

Paul wrote of those in a church that if they practiced the works of the flesh, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Read what the WORD says about these things

1 John 2

Deceptions of the Last Hour​

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Let Truth Abide in You​

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.

The Children of God​

28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that [h]when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

 

[NayborBear]

Does Understanding Eschatology Prove You Are Saved?​

No? Doesn't prove one is saved.
But? IS indicative of one's spiritual maturity!
And? Not so much does it matter to, or in the eyes of man, as it does in the eyes of the LORD!

 

[TribulationSigns]

You say you don't twist scripture, yet you are doing it over and over again. No matter how much you twist scripture, you can't change the truth which is that God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that is why He offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11) and why He commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and why Jesus came to sacrifice Himself for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2). You are the one who has to change scripture to make it fit your doctrine, not me.

We both read the same verse but come with different understandings. The Lord judges between false and true--and I am comfortable with that. I can declare by the Word of God that your free will is a false doctrine. Just saying!

Also, I don't buy any of your nonsense about 1 Timothy 4:10.

Not my problem. That is between you and the Lord.

You used Acts 25:26 and 1 Timothy 5:8 as examples where the word supposedly means specifically rather than especially. Wrong. You didn't look at the context of either verse.

LOL.

Acts 25:23 And on the morrow, when Agrippa was come, and Bernice, with great pomp, and was entered into the place of hearing, with the chief captains, and principal men of the city, at Festus' commandment Paul was brought forth. 24 And Festus said, King Agrippa, and all men which are here present with us, ye see this man, about whom all the multitude of the Jews have dealt with me, both at Jerusalem, and also here, crying that he ought not to live any longer. 25 But when I found that he had committed nothing worthy of death, and that he himself hath appealed to Augustus, I have determined to send him. 26 Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write.

You are trying to say that when it says "I have brought him before you", it's talking only about King Agrippa. Wrong. Look at the context. Paul was not just brought before King Agrippa, but also Bernice and "the chief captains, and principal men of the city". But, he was mainly or especially brought before King Agrippa. Not specifically King Agrippa since he wasn't the only one.

LOL.

Acts 25:26

• "Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write."

This verse is saying the apostle brought him forth before you, and "specifically" before king Agrippa. i.e., it's pointing to King Agrippa specifically. Case closed.

And I will say this again. Your "salvation for all men" and "free will" doctrine are FALSE! That’s your interpretation, not what Scripture teaches. If Christ truly died for ALL people in the saving sense, yet most reject Him, then His work would be returning to God VOID — which Scripture says is impossible:

Isa 55:11
(11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

No matter how hard you try, your position simply doesn’t hold up biblically.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes that even your belief in Christ has been granted you.

Christ is the author and finisher of your faith in every possible way.

Example that proof of salvation and perdition come from God
God grants people their belief, so then they believe and have salvation, while gospel opponents, being adversarial to Christian believers, have proof of perdition, as they are naturally of the ungodly.

It is not natural to have faith in Christ, it is supernatural!

Striving and Suffering for Christ​

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,

28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[Scott Downey]

For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake

This is also taught in Romans 8 and Hebrews 2. That God is building the family of God.

Example

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Hebrews 2

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We both read the same verse but come with different understandings. The Lord judges between false and true--and I am comfortable with that. I can declare by the Word of God that your free will is a false doctrine. Just saying!



Not my problem. That is between you and the Lord.


LOL.


LOL.

Acts 25:26

• "Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and specially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write."

This verse is saying the apostle brought him forth before you, and "specifically" before king Agrippa. i.e., it's pointing to King Agrippa specifically. Case closed.

And I will say this again. Your "salvation for all men" and "free will" doctrine are FALSE! That’s your interpretation, not what Scripture teaches. If Christ truly died for ALL people in the saving sense, yet most reject Him, then His work would be returning to God VOID — which Scripture says is impossible:

Isa 55:11
(11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

No matter how hard you try, your position simply doesn’t hold up biblically.

Nope. You didn't address my points at all and just ignored them, as you typically do. You are butchering the text to make it fit your doctrine, as I already showed. The Greek word "malista" never means specifically. It is a word used to contrast one thing with another. You are trying to create a definition for the word that doesn't exist. I showed you who was being addressed in Acts 25:26 by looking at the surrounding verses, but you obviously don't care about context.