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Featured Does What Needs To Be Done To Be Saved Actually Do The Saving?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by BarnyFife, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    We certainly act as if it did.

    If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times: ___________ doesn't save anyone!!

    I believe God and, specifically, the blood of Jesus alone saves sinners from everlasting destruction.

    Why do we argue with each other over something that is so plain? The Bible says that many things must be done by us if we would hope to be saved. But we debate and fuss trying to somehow prove that our favorite summary of the requirements for salvation is the correct one.

    Did you ever wonder why Jesus had to be baptized?

    I think I know why.

    Matthew 3
    13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    He had to be baptized for the same reason that repentance is "given" to us. Our motives and intentions are so corrupt, that even our baptism cannot be accepted as fulfilling the requirements of true righteousness. God's grace covers our best efforts all the time.

    The Bible is plain that we are judged by our works. My denomination is constantly charged with practicing and advocating legalism. But I tell you there is a subset among us who know that even our best day when consecrated as fully to God and His service as we know how (even by the unction of the Holy Ghost) is so meager an offering as to be a stench in the nostrils of God. His grace has to be mediated by The Spirit in both directions. Total depravity is a great understatement. Conversion changes our hearts, no doubt, but our righteousness in no way exceeds that of the Pharisees without the mediatory efforts of Christ and His Spirit. The problem with legalists is that they don't take the law seriously enough.

    It is God, always, who does the saving. We merely agree for Him to undertake it. There is no other way. And there is no shortcut or useful summary. Whether we have the "thief on the cross" experience or "conversion at 8 and death at 80" experience, it is all of grace.

    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4)
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 5:20 can be fulfilled in our lives through Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7, and Galatians 2:20.

    In this, the mediatorial aspects of the blood of the Cross is not the only thing that makes us righteous, in the sense of righteousness being imputed to us so that the requirement of Matthew 5:20 is no longer in place.

    But there is a practical righteousness that the Lord imparts to us through His shed blood on Calvary (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Romans 5:17, Matthew 5:6), that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, if we are truly born again of the Holy Spirit.

    This is not apart from the shed blood of the Cross. It also does not consist merely of forgiveness.
     
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  3. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I would say both baptism and works doesn't save anyone. Jesus does by faith.
     
  4. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    By grace through faith. All is of grace.
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I would say that we can obtain promises by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).

    And I would say also that Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 contains a conditional promise that we can obtain through faith and the fulfilling of the condition.

    The same promise may be obtained merely by asking as a condition (Luke 11:9-13).

    But where there is doubt, I would say that it is expedient to exhaust every step available in order to make your calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).
     
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  6. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I really want to agree but there seems to be something off about the way you say it.
    I think it's in this sentence:
    Imparted righteousness is still filthy rags once it gets sullied by our deceitful hearts. It's a delicate paradox, to be sure, but I think we are saved only by imputed righteousness. While at the same time I believe we cannot be saved without imparted righteousness (which is not done both instantly and wholly). And yet they are both administered by the same Spirit through the same blood.

    Ephesians 2
    8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13)
     
  7. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I really love your username. I am in danger of committing covetousness. lol
     
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  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I think that imparted righteousness, if it is the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9), even the righteousness of Christ (1 John 3:7), is as fine linen, clean and white (Revelation 19:8). And it is also a practical righteousness (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

    If Jesus is living His life in me and through me (Galatians 2:20), it will be a perfect life that is lived.

    So, I must relinquish control of my life to Him.

    It is when I take my life back and begin living it myself that I begin to walk again in sin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I deliberately chose it because of its double meaning.
     
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  10. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    But don't you think we still resist righteousness to an extent, even after conversion, even unwittingly?
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  12. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I would identify the weak Christian as "uncircumcised" as pertaining to Romans 4:11; and the sanctified Christian as "circumcised"...

    The point being that the weak Christians still have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them.

    However, I know that in my own life, Matthew 5:20 has become a motivation towards living more righteously than ever before, in the practical sense.

    I think that to enter into the kingdom, there has to come a point where imputed righteousness begins to translate into practical righteousness.

    i.e. you begin to live like your new identity (Romans 4:5, 1 John 3:7).

    Because in imputing righteousness to you, He gives you a new identity (Romans 4:5).

    And, not living like your new identity does not change your identity back to what it was before (also Romans 4:5).

    However, I would also say that if the identity of righteousness truly belongs to you, you will begin to live like it eventually (1 John 3:7).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is God who does the saving, but it is the sinner who does the repenting and believing (Acts 2:38 and many other passages).

    Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are JUSTIFIED by grace through faith. That is salvation, but there is much more to salvation. This is purely the work of God, and everything else that follows is also the work of God. But unless you believe with all your heart you will not be saved.
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    What would be wrong with simply putting first things first or... if and when we are unsure of what should be first we submit as fully as we are able and sincerely ask and continue to ask God to take up the slack?

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

    Simple enough, does it not seem, until some man inserts a question to another man and provides a definition, which no one is allowed to question or change... according to the asker!

    Some will ask what is the "kingdom of God" and another will ask what is "his righteousness" and instead of seeking of God they will insist upon providing or look for some man to provide...
     
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  16. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with this part Of an otherwise excellent post...

    The Self- Righteous “ cant wait” to be judged by their Works and God will give them the opportunity to make their best case.They think that they are “ fit for Heaven” because of their Super-Dooper Performance In Morality or Law-Keeping. They are completely blind when it comes to the Truth that two thing and two things ONLY were responsible for saving Anybody that was ever saved— That would be “ Christ’s Blood and Our Faith”
    Christ took “my” Judgement on the Cross and in turn, I got “ His” Righteousness.....a pretty good deal for a Wretched Sinner like me .....All I Did was simply Trust in Paul’s Gospel, given to him personally by Jesus, Found In 1Cor15:1-4 and Rested In It as Commanded to do by God in Hebrews 3 and 4.....
    Our “ Works”, once we are Saved ,will be used to determine our Eternal Rewards....we were “ created unto Good Works “ and the extent to which we performed those works of “ bearing the burdens of others” , showing kindness, helping spread the Gospel,etc will determine the rewards we get....
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Those who have not been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb will be judged and condemned by their works; while those who are redeemed will receive reward because of them.
     
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  18. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Not a thing. ;)
     
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  19. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30
     
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  20. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I believe it begins immediately, only some saints have thicker skulls than others (like me, for instance). This makes the work of sanctification harder and slower for the Spirit, but no less certain.
     
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