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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I can't get on board with this Pastor's critical and judgmental tone. I shy away from preachers that focus on sin too much, and hit you over the head with their Bibles - as if their teaching is purely led by the Holy Spirit. Sin needs to be addressed, just not si much a dominant theme so you're not leaving the church with this guilt trip that the Pastor lays on you _ all the time!
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.
Lots of folks love Osteen and that's fine. In a live interview some years ago on Larry King Live, Osteen said they never mention the Cross of Christ, or sin. He said, "we don't want of offend anyone."
Does that qualify Osteen as a preacher of the Gospel? That is being ashamed to mention the Cross, the Blood, and sin.
You talk about preachers beating to death sin, I agree! But what about the so-called pastors (in name only) who refuse to mention it altogether? Paul has a name for such pastors, "hirelings." They are telling the congregation what they want to hear, and not "Thus saith the Lord!"
Osteen is not a pastor in any sense of the word, he is a motivational speaker pretending to be a pastor.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Well, I knew this would open a can of worms. He was a college srop out, worked behind the scenes helping his Dad. Then his Dad died. He initially didn't think he was qualified to step. I like said you win't get doctrinal teaching from him, you'll be lifted, encouraged to have faith and hope. Robert Schuller was similar kind of preacher in that he taught "posibility thinking". Have a positive attitude and know that anything is possible with God. Wasn't Jesus a positive person, encouraging, faithful. He would praise those with great faith and frown on those with little faith.
I see the fruit of the Spirit in Joel. The cross is a given and so is sin, he would not deny Jesus died on the cross for are sins. It is a Christian Church. Personal theological Bible study is up to us, especially for new believers. He holds up the Bible and confirms that it is the Word of God and he asks all to be in agreement with that before he says anything. Encourage one another is said 40 times. He gets people excited about God and of course it's all about Jesus, Who when you believe, takes care of your sins. And we move on from there, with the love of God, faith and hope.
Joel Osteen: "You get ten or fifteen thousand people that are excited about God. They're from every race and every denomination and every background. They wanna be here, they weren't drug to come to church. And so there's something about that. It creates an attitude of expectancy. And we cheer and we shout and there's joy. And I try to leave them better off than they were before."
So few supposed preachers ,pastors or evangelist are truly God called. Those he calls he equipts and anoints , preparing them with the message the congregation is in need of whatever that might be!
These folks may still be here after Jesus second coming or they may @ that time be serving their true master the devil instead of posing .
These folks may still be here after Jesus second coming or they may @ that time be serving their true master the devil instead of posing .
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Friendship with the world
Worldliness, envy, and pride existed among certain early Christians. (James 4:4-6) James calls some “adulteresses” because they were friends of the world and thus guilty of spiritual adultery. (Ezekiel 16:15-19, 25-45) Surely, we do not want to become worldly in attitude, speech, and actions, for that would make us God’s enemies. His Word shows us that “a tendency to envy” is part of the bad inclination, or “spirit,” in sinful humans. (Genesis 8:21; Numbers 16:1-3; Psalm 106:16, 17; Ecclesiastes 4:4) So if we realize that we need to fight envy, pride, or some other bad inclination, let us seek God’s help by holy spirit. That force, supplied by God’s undeserved kindness, is greater than “a tendency to envy.” And whereas YHWH God opposes the proud, he will give us undeserved kindness if we fight sinful tendencies.
How can we receive God’s undeserved kindness? (James 4:7-10) To enjoy undeserved kindness from YHWH God, we must obey him, accept his provisions, and submit to whatever he wills. (Romans 8:28) We must also “oppose,” or ‘stand against,’ the Devil. He will ‘flee from us’ if we remain firm as supporters of YHWH God's universal sovereignty. We have the help of Jesus, who restrains the world’s evil agencies so that nothing can do us permanent harm. And never forget this: By prayer, obedience, and faith, we draw close to God, and he proves to be near us.(2 Chronicles 15:2)
Why does James apply the term “sinners” to some professing faith in God? Because they were guilty of “wars” and murderous hatred, attitudes unacceptable for Christians. (Titus 3:3) Their “hands,” filled with bad deeds, required cleansing. They also needed to purify their “hearts,” the seat of motivation. (Matthew 15:18, 19) Those “indecisive ones” vacillated between friendship with God and friendship with the world. Warned by their bad example, let us exercise unceasing vigilance so that such things do not wreck our faith.(Romans 7:18-20)
James tells his readers to “give way to misery and mourn and weep.” If they did manifest godly sadness, it would be evidence of repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:10, 11) Today, some who say that they have faith are seeking friendship with the world. If any of us are pursuing such a course, should we not mourn over our weak spiritual state and take immediate steps to correct matters? Making needed adjustments and receiving God’s forgiveness will produce a feeling of exultation because of a clean conscience and the joyful prospect of everlasting life.(Psalm 51:10-17; 1 John 2:15-17)
It is sinful to speak against a fellow believer. (James 4:11, 12) Yet some are critical of fellow Christians, perhaps as a result of their own self-righteous attitude or because they want to exalt themselves by downgrading others. (Psalm 50:20; Proverbs 3:29) The Greek term rendered ‘speak against’ denotes hostility and implies making an exaggerated or false accusation. This amounts to judging a brother adversely. How is this ‘speaking against and judging God’s law’? Well, the scribes and the Pharisees ‘adroitly set aside God’s commandment’ and judged by their own standards. (Mark 7:1-13) Similarly, if we condemned a brother that YHWH God would not condemn, would we not be ‘judging God’s law’ and be sinfully implying that it is inadequate? And by unjustly criticizing our brother, we would not be fulfilling the law of love.(Romans 13:8-10)
9 Let us remember this: “One there is that is lawgiver and judge," YHWH God. His ‘law is perfect,’ not deficient. (Psalm 19:7; Isaiah 33:22) God alone has the right to set standards and rules for salvation. (Luke 12:5) So James asks: “Who are you to be judging your neighbor?” It is not our prerogative to judge and condemn others. (Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 14:4, 10) Reflecting on God’s sovereignty and impartiality and our own sinfulness should help us to refrain from self-righteously judging others.
Worldliness, envy, and pride existed among certain early Christians. (James 4:4-6) James calls some “adulteresses” because they were friends of the world and thus guilty of spiritual adultery. (Ezekiel 16:15-19, 25-45) Surely, we do not want to become worldly in attitude, speech, and actions, for that would make us God’s enemies. His Word shows us that “a tendency to envy” is part of the bad inclination, or “spirit,” in sinful humans. (Genesis 8:21; Numbers 16:1-3; Psalm 106:16, 17; Ecclesiastes 4:4) So if we realize that we need to fight envy, pride, or some other bad inclination, let us seek God’s help by holy spirit. That force, supplied by God’s undeserved kindness, is greater than “a tendency to envy.” And whereas YHWH God opposes the proud, he will give us undeserved kindness if we fight sinful tendencies.
How can we receive God’s undeserved kindness? (James 4:7-10) To enjoy undeserved kindness from YHWH God, we must obey him, accept his provisions, and submit to whatever he wills. (Romans 8:28) We must also “oppose,” or ‘stand against,’ the Devil. He will ‘flee from us’ if we remain firm as supporters of YHWH God's universal sovereignty. We have the help of Jesus, who restrains the world’s evil agencies so that nothing can do us permanent harm. And never forget this: By prayer, obedience, and faith, we draw close to God, and he proves to be near us.(2 Chronicles 15:2)
Why does James apply the term “sinners” to some professing faith in God? Because they were guilty of “wars” and murderous hatred, attitudes unacceptable for Christians. (Titus 3:3) Their “hands,” filled with bad deeds, required cleansing. They also needed to purify their “hearts,” the seat of motivation. (Matthew 15:18, 19) Those “indecisive ones” vacillated between friendship with God and friendship with the world. Warned by their bad example, let us exercise unceasing vigilance so that such things do not wreck our faith.(Romans 7:18-20)
James tells his readers to “give way to misery and mourn and weep.” If they did manifest godly sadness, it would be evidence of repentance. (2 Corinthians 7:10, 11) Today, some who say that they have faith are seeking friendship with the world. If any of us are pursuing such a course, should we not mourn over our weak spiritual state and take immediate steps to correct matters? Making needed adjustments and receiving God’s forgiveness will produce a feeling of exultation because of a clean conscience and the joyful prospect of everlasting life.(Psalm 51:10-17; 1 John 2:15-17)
It is sinful to speak against a fellow believer. (James 4:11, 12) Yet some are critical of fellow Christians, perhaps as a result of their own self-righteous attitude or because they want to exalt themselves by downgrading others. (Psalm 50:20; Proverbs 3:29) The Greek term rendered ‘speak against’ denotes hostility and implies making an exaggerated or false accusation. This amounts to judging a brother adversely. How is this ‘speaking against and judging God’s law’? Well, the scribes and the Pharisees ‘adroitly set aside God’s commandment’ and judged by their own standards. (Mark 7:1-13) Similarly, if we condemned a brother that YHWH God would not condemn, would we not be ‘judging God’s law’ and be sinfully implying that it is inadequate? And by unjustly criticizing our brother, we would not be fulfilling the law of love.(Romans 13:8-10)
9 Let us remember this: “One there is that is lawgiver and judge," YHWH God. His ‘law is perfect,’ not deficient. (Psalm 19:7; Isaiah 33:22) God alone has the right to set standards and rules for salvation. (Luke 12:5) So James asks: “Who are you to be judging your neighbor?” It is not our prerogative to judge and condemn others. (Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 14:4, 10) Reflecting on God’s sovereignty and impartiality and our own sinfulness should help us to refrain from self-righteously judging others.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ol' @marks is not going to "like" this...but it is true what you say
2Ti 4:2 to proclaim the message. Be ready to do this [The Gk. lacks to do this] whether or not the time is convenient. Refute, warn, and encourage with the utmost patience when you teach.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears will surround themselves with teachers who cater to their people’s own desires.
2Ti 4:4 They will refuse to listen to the truth and will turn to myths.
2Ti 4:5 But you must be clear-headed about everything. Endure suffering. Do the work of an evangelist. Devote yourself completely to your ministry.
sa 56:9 ¶ “All you wild animals, [So 1QIsaa LXX; 1QIsab MT read Every wild animal] come and devour—
even [So 1QIsaa; 1QIsab MT LXX lack even] all of you wild animals. [So 1QIsaa LXX; 1QIsab MT read every wild animal]
Isa 56:10 ¶ His [I.e. Israel’s; so 1QIsaa MTq] watchmen [MT reads His watchman; LXX reads Look! They all] are blind;
they are all without knowledge.
They are all dumb dogs—
they cannot bark.
They keep on dreaming and lying around,
and they’re lovers of sleep! [So 1QIsaa LXX; MT reads sleeping]
Isa 56:11 ¶ Meanwhile, [Lit. And] the dogs have a mighty appetite—
they can never get enough.
And as for them, they are the shepherds [So 1QIsaa; MT reads shepherds; LXX reads evil] who lack understanding;
they have all turned to their own way,
each one to his gain,
each and every one.
2Ti 3:1 What People will be Like in the Last Days
¶ You must realize, however, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2Ti 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 unfeeling, uncooperative, slanderous, degenerate, brutal, hateful of what is good,
2Ti 3:4 traitors, reckless, conceited, and lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.
2Ti 3:5 They will hold to an outward form of godliness but deny its power. Stay away from such people.
2Ti 3:6 For some of these men go into homes and deceive foolish women who are burdened with sins and swayed by all kinds of desires.
2Ti 3:7 These women are always studying but are never able to arrive at a full knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men oppose the truth. They are depraved in mind and their faith is a counterfeit.
2Ti 3:9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those two men, [The Gk. lacks two men] their stupidity will be plain to everyone.
1Ti 4:1 A Prophecy about the Future
¶ Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith by following deceitful spirits, the teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 and the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences have been burned by a hot iron.
This is my OP but I never received one feedback from anyone.
J.
Yes, the church/es are becoming worldly
J.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Some. But look at the seven churches in Revelation. Two were faithful, the rest needed to repent of their sins. One was almost dead, another God hated, another was lukewarm ... all kinds of sins going on. These were actual churches but were also church-types that existed all through the Church Age. Many of us are fortunate to choose the Philadelphia type church. But not all are like that. Ephesus had good doctrine but were cold, lost their first love. I've been in churches like this, strict, serious and sometimes beating you over the head with their holy Bible.
I believe God is in control. He has restrained evil but allowed it for a purpose. I believe His plan is perfect, we can't mess it up. Therefore He is right on schedule with all who are written in the Book of Life. Not one elect was lost in history. If you don't believe that, you don't quite understand what sovereignty means. Prophecy plays out perfectly only because He is sovereign. So yes we see worldly churches and God is dealing with them. God grows faithful churches and the ones that remain stagnant aren't growing because of their sins and false doctrines. This is the reason why JW's and Mormon churches don't grow or on a snails pace. Since 1900 JW's have just under 9 million and I think Mormans have 16 million. Since 1900, Christianity has grown from 500 million to 2.65 billion. That's growth - praise God.
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Jesus said he prayed to the Father not to take us out of the world but to KEEP us from the evil of the world!
How does this stack up with what some denominations believe and teach for instance "Holiness" ?
They believe in zero make- up,no cutting of woman's hair, skirts & dresses, no going to 6 flags or Disney nor any park or to the movies.
This to me makes ppl not want to engage at all with them for they feel condemnation from them.
Jesus said love is what we are supposed to show the world and his love reveals their sins by the Holy Spirit convictions. We are not to partake of the sins of the world, SINS, not what we think are sins! We are walking testimonies of his love and the power to change a person.
How does this stack up with what some denominations believe and teach for instance "Holiness" ?
They believe in zero make- up,no cutting of woman's hair, skirts & dresses, no going to 6 flags or Disney nor any park or to the movies.
This to me makes ppl not want to engage at all with them for they feel condemnation from them.
Jesus said love is what we are supposed to show the world and his love reveals their sins by the Holy Spirit convictions. We are not to partake of the sins of the world, SINS, not what we think are sins! We are walking testimonies of his love and the power to change a person.
Guess no one like this inspired preaching either, he harps TOO much on "sin" so some would go to the Joel Osteen since this uninspired, not sent from God, "pastor" lift the spirits of his mega-church, while Wilkerson is laying a "guilt-trip" on the already seared conscience of many.
The amazing thing, this is my OP, many interacted on this video clip, and I have not been "notified" re the responses from members..
J.
..which reminds me of this..
Judgment on Moral Relativists
¶ “How terrible it will be for those who call evil good
and good evil,
who substitute darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who substitute what is bitter for what is sweet
and what is sweet for what is bitter!”
J.
I don't go on numbers, but what scripture is saying..
Mat 7:13 The Narrow Gate
(Luke 13:24)
¶ “Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the road is spacious that leads to destruction, and many people are entering by it.
Mat 7:14 How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and there aren’t many people who find it!”
The passage itself contains no clue to the right way except that it is the way of the few. The allegory also is obscure from its brevity. Is the gate at the beginning or end of the way, or are gate and way practically one, the way narrow because it passes through a narrow doorway?
Possibly Christ’s precept was simply, “enter through the narrow gate” or “door” (θύρα, Luke’s word), all the rest being gloss.—πύλης, the large entrance to an edifice or city, as distinct from θύρα, a common door; perhaps chosen by Lk. because in keeping with the epithet στενῆς.—ὅτι, etc.: explanatory enlargement to unfold and enforce the precept.—ἡ ὁδὸς:
two ways are contrasted, either described by its qualities and end. The “way” in the figure is a common road, but the term readily suggests a manner of life. The Christian religion is frequently called “the way” in Acts (Mat_9:2, Mat_19:9, etc.). The wrong road is characterised as πλατεῖα and εὐρύχωρος, broad and roomy, and as leading to destruction (ἀπώλειαν).
The right way (and gate, ἡ πύλη, is to be retained in Mat_7:14, though omitted in Mat_7:13) is described as στενὴ καὶ τεθλιμμένη, narrow and contracted, and as leading to life.—ζωήν, a pregnant word, true life, worth living, in which men realise the end of their being—the antithesis of ἀπώλεια. The one is the way of the many, πολλοί εἰσιν οἱ εἰσερ.; the other of the few, ὀλίγοι … οἱ εὑρίσκοντες.
Note the word “finding”. The way is so narrow or so untrodden that it may easily be missed. It has to be sought for. Luke suggests the idea of difficulty in squeezing in through the very narrow door. Both points of view have their analogue in life. The practical application of this counsel requires spiritual discernment. No verbal directory will help us. Narrow? Was not Pharisaism a narrow way, and the monastic life and pietism with its severe rules for separation from the “world” in amusement, dress, etc.?
Hmm, not even going to quote the source
J.
@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Shows how we need to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2) and prayerfully feed on the Scriptures rather than follow popular men.
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