Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

[john t]

To help me understand, how exactly do you define a 'cult'? Thank you for your consideration!

Good question! There are several characteristics of a cult, and they overlap, so I will focus on the issue you seem to be wondering about most: Why do I consider the SDA church a cult?

1. They venerate Ellen White, who has made many stupid rules having no basis in medicine nor in the Bible
2. Despite her many obvious failures as a prophet, violating Deuteronomy 18. they believe her "spirit of prophecy" is ongoing
3. They offer a food-oriented works "salvation"
4. They believe that her fits of catalepsy are visions from God
5. They believe that no one could be saved until 1844 and beyond
6. Ellen was a Millerite, and participated with him in person; Millerites eventually became Jehovah Witnesses
7. They reject the major Ecumenical Creeds: Apostle's Creed, Athanasian Creed and the Nicean Creed
8. They condescendingly call churches which worship on Sunday "Sunday Worshipers" because the only true day to worship is Saturday"
9. They extinguish the deity of Jesus Christ saying he came in sinful flesh, and had infinite power because He perfectly obeyed God
10. The work of Jesus on the Cross is insufficient; each person participates in his own salvation, thus denying the sovereignty of God
11. They believe we are justified by belief in Christ, but this is only the beginning of our salvation.
12. The writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority"

These are just a few of the reasons why I am adamantly against SDA theology. Recently, they revised their 28 Fundamental beliefs to obscure many things that were more obvious in previous editions of their FBs. At one time in the last 10 years, I had a listing of their more plainly stated FBs and was able to explicate them. Alas! I lost them in a crash.

You asked the question, so now you have some of my many reasons for my continued opposition to SDA theology

 

[CharismaticLady]

Oh, don't het me started on food. I used to eat Worthington Vegetarian Burger right out of the can. I love Swiss Stake.

There was one of their products made out of peanuts into a pate. Do you remember the name of it? I could eat the chicken out of the can. And I still buy Scallops.

 

[amadeus]

Good question! There are several characteristics of a cult, and they overlap, so I will focus on the issue you seem to be wondering about most: Why do I consider the SDA church a cult?

1. They venerate Ellen White, who has made many stupid rules having no basis in medicine nor in the Bible
2. Despite her many obvious failures as a prophet, violating Deuteronomy 18. they believe her "spirit of prophecy" is ongoing
3. They offer a food-oriented works "salvation"
4. They believe that her fits of catalepsy are visions from God
5. They believe that no one could be saved until 1844 and beyond
6. Ellen was a Millerite, and participated with him in person; Millerites eventually became Jehovah Witnesses
7. They reject the major Ecumenical Creeds: Apostle's Creed, Athanasian Creed and the Nicean Creed
8. They condescendingly call churches which worship on Sunday "Sunday Worshipers" because the only true day to worship is Saturday"
9. They extinguish the deity of Jesus Christ saying he came in sinful flesh, and had infinite power because He perfectly obeyed God
10. The work of Jesus on the Cross is insufficient; each person participates in his own salvation, thus denying the sovereignty of God
11. They believe we are justified by belief in Christ, but this is only the beginning of our salvation.
12. The writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority"

These are just a few of the reasons why I am adamantly against SDA theology. Recently, they revised their 28 Fundamental beliefs to obscure many things that were more obvious in previous editions of their FBs. At one time in the last 10 years, I had a listing of their more plainly stated FBs and was able to explicate them. Alas! I lost them in a crash.

You asked the question, so now you have some of my many reasons for my continued opposition to SDA theology

Thank you for your response. I now understand where you apparently are on the SDA but being not more than superficially aware of their practices and beliefs myself other than their Saturday-Sabbath difference... without an in depth study on each point, I could not easily confirm what you are saying.

However, while I suspect it is contained in your 12 points, what I was looking for was a clear definition of the word, cult, as you use it which you might apply to any church group... that is, not only the SDA. You did not provide that.

 

[BarneyFife]

There was one of their products made out of peanuts into a pate. Do you remember the name of it? I could eat the chicken out of the can. And I still buy Scallops.

Do you mean Fri-Chik? I vaguely recall the pate-type product you're talking about. You can make a delicious pate from raw or roasted (or both, depending on your flavor preference) sunflower seeds and seasonings in a good blender. I'll check and see if I can find the name of that stuff. Was it Nuteena? Oh, and I meant Prime Steaks, not Swiss Stake, although I doubt there's much difference.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you mean Fri-Chik? I vaguely recall the pate-type product you're talking about. You can make a delicious pate from raw or roasted (or both, depending on your flavor preference) sunflower seeds and seasonings in a good blender. I'll check and see if I can find the name of that stuff. Was it Nuteena? Oh, and I meant Prime Steaks, not Swiss Stake, although I doubt there's much difference.

Yes, Fri-Chik! And I do think Nuteena was the name. Or something like that.

Just looked it up and it is gone. RIP 2005. When my mom died in 2012, I cleaned out her things and found an old can of it in the basement. It was still good! What a treat.

But found this recipe. I can't believe how long the address is!

A Nostalgic Recipe For Everyone Who Misses Nuteena

 

[BarneyFife]

Good question! There are several characteristics of a cult, and they overlap, so I will focus on the issue you seem to be wondering about most: Why do I consider the SDA church a cult?

1. They venerate Ellen White, who has made many stupid rules having no basis in medicine nor in the Bible
2. Despite her many obvious failures as a prophet, violating Deuteronomy 18. they believe her "spirit of prophecy" is ongoing
3. They offer a food-oriented works "salvation"
4. They believe that her fits of catalepsy are visions from God
5. They believe that no one could be saved until 1844 and beyond
6. Ellen was a Millerite, and participated with him in person; Millerites eventually became Jehovah Witnesses
7. They reject the major Ecumenical Creeds: Apostle's Creed, Athanasian Creed and the Nicean Creed
8. They condescendingly call churches which worship on Sunday "Sunday Worshipers" because the only true day to worship is Saturday"
9. They extinguish the deity of Jesus Christ saying he came in sinful flesh, and had infinite power because He perfectly obeyed God
10. The work of Jesus on the Cross is insufficient; each person participates in his own salvation, thus denying the sovereignty of God
11. They believe we are justified by belief in Christ, but this is only the beginning of our salvation.
12. The writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority"

These are just a few of the reasons why I am adamantly against SDA theology. Recently, they revised their 28 Fundamental beliefs to obscure many things that were more obvious in previous editions of their FBs. At one time in the last 10 years, I had a listing of their more plainly stated FBs and was able to explicate them. Alas! I lost them in a crash.

You asked the question, so now you have some of my many reasons for my continued opposition to SDA theology

And all the better for it, I'm sure.

Too bad you didn't actually answer the question that was asked. Instead, you answered the question in your head--the one that would give you the opportunity to spew more of your slanderous tripe.

You say you oppose the Theology, but I notice 8 of your 12 points start with the word "They," as if we were all robots and believed exactly the same things.

You've already proved you have no real interest in what Adventists believe by your handling of the 'annihilationism at Christ's 2nd coming' affair, so how can we trust you to make reliable lists? You're no authority on what Adventists believe, unless muck-raking can be seen as authority.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, Fri-Chik! And I do think Nuteena was the name. Or something like that.

Just looked it up and it is gone. RIP 2005. When my mom died in 2012, I cleaned out her things and found an old can of it in the basement. It was still good! What a treat.

But found this recipe. I can't believe how long the address is!

A Nostalgic Recipe For Everyone Who Misses Nuteena

 

[ChristisGod]

Good question! There are several characteristics of a cult, and they overlap, so I will focus on the issue you seem to be wondering about most: Why do I consider the SDA church a cult?

1. They venerate Ellen White, who has made many stupid rules having no basis in medicine nor in the Bible
2. Despite her many obvious failures as a prophet, violating Deuteronomy 18. they believe her "spirit of prophecy" is ongoing
3. They offer a food-oriented works "salvation"
4. They believe that her fits of catalepsy are visions from God
5. They believe that no one could be saved until 1844 and beyond
6. Ellen was a Millerite, and participated with him in person; Millerites eventually became Jehovah Witnesses
7. They reject the major Ecumenical Creeds: Apostle's Creed, Athanasian Creed and the Nicean Creed
8. They condescendingly call churches which worship on Sunday "Sunday Worshipers" because the only true day to worship is Saturday"
9. They extinguish the deity of Jesus Christ saying he came in sinful flesh, and had infinite power because He perfectly obeyed God
10. The work of Jesus on the Cross is insufficient; each person participates in his own salvation, thus denying the sovereignty of God
11. They believe we are justified by belief in Christ, but this is only the beginning of our salvation.
12. The writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority"

These are just a few of the reasons why I am adamantly against SDA theology. Recently, they revised their 28 Fundamental beliefs to obscure many things that were more obvious in previous editions of their FBs. At one time in the last 10 years, I had a listing of their more plainly stated FBs and was able to explicate them. Alas! I lost them in a crash.

You asked the question, so now you have some of my many reasons for my continued opposition to SDA theology

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Millerites/ JW's change their doctrines like the wind changes directions. Both are founded upon FALSE PROPHETS.

 

[BarneyFife]

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:8)

 

[BarneyFife]

Just looked it up and it is gone. RIP 2005. When my mom died in 2012, I cleaned out her things and found an old can of it in the basement. It was still good! What a treat.

But found this recipe. I can't believe how long the address is!

A Nostalgic Recipe For Everyone Who Misses Nuteena

I copied the recipe! lol

 

[BarneyFife]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Millerites/ JW's change their doctrines like the wind changes directions. Both are founded upon FALSE PROPHETS.

And the knife cuts.

 

[ChristisGod]

And the knife cuts.

I'm speaking of the founders not the current state of the SDA just an FYI. The founders of the SDA and JW organization were false prophets.

 

[BarneyFife]

And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’ (Zechariah 13:6)

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm speaking of the founders not the current state of the SDA just an FYI. The founders of the SDA and JW organization were false prophets.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm speaking of the founders not the current state of the SDA just an FYI. The founders of the SDA and JW organization were false prophets.

And how long did it take you to arrive at that conclusion? Did you pray before you posted your accusations? I hope you're not bearing false witness against your neighbor. I guess it doesn't count if your neighbor is dead, though... Oh, well

 

[ChristisGod]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

are you saying she never predicted the return of Christ would occur in the 1840's - 1850's ?

 

[john t]

john t said: ↑
And I'll say it again:

READ THEIR OFFICIAL WORDS

If you could have been bothered to read more of the eschatological parts of the document, you would have seen that Seventh-day Adventists believe that Christ comes before the millennium to gather His elect, and then carries them to Heaven to reign with Him and that sin and sinners are finally eradicated after the millennium when Christ (with the saints in the New Jerusalem) descend upon the earth for the 3rd time.

Taken from:
The Millennium and the End of Sin | Adventist.org

THAT above is not a part of their 28 Fundamental Beliefs

I copied what I did from the web page on their fundamental beliefs Thus you err on that part.

Also, the word "reconnect"is not a part of the words of the Bible, in the OT nor in the NT. Therefore, you err again.

 

[ChristisGod]

And here is the BIGGIE. She is a woman and women are not allowed to teach over men. That gift is given to men in the church, not women.

hope this helps !!!

 

[YeshuaFan1]

Thank you for your response. I now understand where you apparently are on the SDA but being not more than superficially aware of their practices and beliefs myself other than their Saturday-Sabbath difference... without an in depth study on each point, I could not easily confirm what you are saying.

However, while I suspect it is contained in your 12 points, what I was looking for was a clear definition of the word, cult, as you use it which you might apply to any church group... that is, not only the SDA. You did not provide that.

The main points that define a Biblical cult such as JW/Mormon and Sda are that they all hold to a salvation of a mixture of grace and good works, hold to another inspired set of books or teachings, have a wrong view on nature and person of Christ, and see themselves as being only true Christian church today!

 

[YeshuaFan1]

are you saying she never predicted the return of Christ would occur in the 1840's - 1850's ?

She taught that God had closed the door to any more getting saved, as Jesus would return in her lifetime!