Electing New Pope

[BreadOfLife]

BOL while preaching...."I know the Bible says this, but it may also mean this and this and this and...".

I completely understand your frustration at being proven wrong.
THREE Levels of Priests in the OT
THREE Levels of Priests in the NT.

Look – if ANYBODY is going to prove you wrong – it may as well be the Word of God . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We do not hate Catholics, just the institution of the Catholic church and it's dogmas.
I believe the scriptures because when I came to faith in Christ miraculously back in 1986, the Holy Spirit drew me to read and love them as well as giving me the ability to understand them. If only that were the case for Catholics, but unfortunately their faith is just a mental belief for the vast majority of them. ( I know because I used to be one of them.) Which has some measure of blessing for this life if one at least eschews sinning, but not for eternal life, which is so sad and tragic....they are taught that they are saved, but they are not, and this essentially innoculatesthem against the gospel. I sure wouldn't want to be any of the priests teaching that lie on the day of judgment, being responsible for so many souls going to perdition. As I already mentioned somewhere, as well as another poster, Cornelius was a good and Godly man who believed in the Lord by the hearing of the ear, just like many decent living Catholics do, but still needed to hear the gospel and meet the Lord for himself in order to be born again.....just as Catholics also still need.
And just to point out that there are born again 'protestant' bible scholars out there to verify and translate scripture....Catholic church doesn't hold a monopoly on bible scholarship any more.
You know there has always been a battle for souls within the church,even in the first century the apostles were kept busy trying to keep wolves and false doctrine from getting a foothold in the early church. And Paul did warn that after he departed wolves would come in not sparing the flock...so guess what, it happened as he said....flesh is so unruly making men ambitious as heck. That the Lord is merciful and powerful, and a few Catholics have managed to get born again and become true believers down through the centuries......is not one bit exonerating for the Catholic institution itself and the lies it teaches. That happens in spite of the RCC, not because of it. God warned us of the adulterous "strange woman" in bed with the world. Friendship with the world is ENMITY with God.

WRONG.

If there was no hatred of Catholics here – I wouldn’t see all of the LYING going on that I see.

As to WHY you adhere to the Catholic Tradition of the NT Canon – NONE of you have been able to tell me WHY you do.
I would NEVER follow a tradition of a false, evil and apostate religion – so WJY do YOU?

Finally – as to the “lies” taught by the Church – that is a charge I hear more than any other from anti-Catholics like you – but NEVER any actual proof to back it up.
Remember – a lie must be PROVEN as such . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No it sure isn't rocket science....that's what gets people into trouble. It takes the Holy Spirit and mind of Christ to understand the SIMPLICITY OF CHRIST, and not to depart from it.

The “simplicity” of Christ?
Don’t ever mistake the “simplicity” of Christ that is alluded to in 2 Cor. 11:13 with the idea that it is “simple” to follow Christ.

The “simplicity” spoken of in that verse refers to purity of devotion. There’s NOTHING that is “easy” about following Christ. He Himself tells us that in order to follow Him, we must pick up our cross DAILY.
Nothin’ “easy” about that . . .

He said that we would be “hated” for following Him.
Nothin’ “easy” about that, either . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not proof....you're only bringing a carnal minded interpretation and vision of those verses, not seeing/understanding with the mind of Christ. Carnal mind is ENMITY against God.

No – I gave shoed Biblical PROOF for the Ministerial Priesthood od the NT.

So, instead of posting an impotent denial – how about debunking the Scriptural argument I presented?

That’s how a REAL debate works.
I know I’m right. But if YOU don’t - PROVE me wrong . . .

 

[Truther]

pope is from the Italian for father or patriarch
Isa 22:21-22

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[Truther]

you’re not an apostle
Paul was speaking as an apostle there!

Am am an apostle to Catholics and their daughters that skipped Acts 2:38.

Obey Acts 2:38, Catholic!

 

[Illuminator]

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Am am an apostle to Catholics and their daughters that skipped Acts 2:38.

Obey Acts 2:38, Catholic!

 

[Lizbeth]

All you have is spiritual anarchy all you can produce is spiritual chaos!!!

Jesus Christ is the Head of His true church and leads it by HIS SPIRIT.....there is no anarchy where HE is allowed the liberty to lead. But you would need to first of all HAVE the Spirit to understand and experience how He leads by His Spirit.

We are well warned by the story of the Israelites in the bible, when they demanded to have a flesh and blood king/saviour like the pagans have (King Saul). Man in his flesh has no faith in the unseen, the flesh demands to have things that are seen to worship and trust in. Yet we are instructed in one epistle to fix our eyes on what is unseen, not on what is seen and temporal.

 

[Lizbeth]

yes according to the order of the royal priesthood but but is high priest according to the order of melchisedec so as you agree there must be low of the order of melchisedec Bingo!

submit obey

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians or spiritual anarchy of the heretical fundamentalists!

The Lord Himself gives various gifts to all the members of His Body, and some are gifted by the Spirit to care for, feed and oversee others. But as Jesus taught, we are to neither give or receive TITLES in His Body, "for we have one Father/Teacher/Master in heaven". Titles and the prestige that comes with them are the way of the world and flesh, not the simplicity of Christ. Why can't those who profess to follow Jesus just simply obey His plain teaching? Hmm? The reason is that sadly many still have a veil of flesh over their eyes...they're blind to His plain and simple word.

 

[Lizbeth]

As I pointed out previously, Luther and Calvin baptized infants, and you fell silent. If I thought sacraments were "magic" I would have left the Church too.
There is lots of "life in the spirit as well as His fruits" in the Catholic Church, you are just painting all Catholics with the same brush, basing your judgments on weak stupid Catholics who don't live the faith in the first place. That's not fair. I submit you were a Catholic by inertia, and not by practice, because if you were a Catholic by practice, you would be educated enough to know that sacraments are not magic.
I don't see anything "Christian" about your self righteous anti-Catholic pontifications. You are just another angry ex-Catholic that never fell in love with the Church, like the girl who breaks up with her boyfriend and then spends the rest of her life bad-mouthing him.
You show no interest in meaningful discussion, you are here to bash Catholicism with standard fundie ignorance. Grow up.
Respectful criticism has nothing to do with "GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS". This is not a response to my post. It proves you can't read.

You found Jesus and a warm fellowship outside the historic Church where you can grow. Good for you. The CC is not opposed to this. Sadly, you have been taught otherwise.

Actually I didn't start to grow in any significant way until I left the churches because they're pretty much all doing things wrong, such that people can't really grow. They've continued with the Catholic model in a way....but no wonder because really it's the way of the flesh and we'd fall into that even without anything to copy.

Faith in sacraments is magical thinking. We are to have faith in Christ, not in men or rituals. As has already been pointed out baptism is useless without prior real faith in Christ, which is not of our own lest any man should boast. True faith is something we RECEIVE from the Lord when we receive HIM and are "born again". The faith of Christ. It's not mere mental belief of the carnal mind, but is from HIS SPIRIT.

And no one can be "born again" before reaching an age where they are autonomously ABLE to "reject the wrong and choose the right" (Is. 7:15).

 

[Lizbeth]

No – I gave shoed Biblical PROOF for the Ministerial Priesthood od the NT.

So, instead of posting an impotent denial – how about debunking the Scriptural argument I presented?

That’s how a REAL debate works.
I know I’m right. But if YOU don’t - PROVE me wrong . . .

It's the difference between flesh and spirit. The simplicity of Christ or the hardened-in-cement way of the flesh and world. Anyone can quote scriptures all the day long and not have the mind of Christ by His SPIRIT to perceive how He means them.

1Co 2:10-16

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

The “simplicity” of Christ?
Don’t ever mistake the “simplicity” of Christ that is alluded to in 2 Cor. 11:13 with the idea that it is “simple” to follow Christ.

The “simplicity” spoken of in that verse refers to purity of devotion. There’s NOTHING that is “easy” about following Christ. He Himself tells us that in order to follow Him, we must pick up our cross DAILY.
Nothin’ “easy” about that . . .

He said that we would be “hated” for following Him.
Nothin’ “easy” about that, either . . .

Jesus is the one who said His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Yes, purity of devotion, the simplicity of Christ...not sullied by the ways of flesh and the world which the serpent so subtly tries to get us to fall into and has succeeded in large measure. It costs us everything to follow Jesus, yes, we are to count the cost, not without pain and suffering, but it is simple and uncomplicated..... "Not my will but Thine be done."

Like the apostle wrote, " Let us go to Him OUTSIDE THE CAMP, bearing His reproach."

 

[Lizbeth]

When I entered the Mew Covenant in Bapttism – I was about the SAME age as the infants who entered the Old Covenant through Circumcision in the OT.
In BOTH cases – it was the faith and obedience of our Parents that brought us to the Covenant.

Do YOU believe that the Jewisg baby boys in the OT entered into a Covenant with God through Circumcision?
A Covenant is a sacred agreement between 2 or more parties.

Yes, it's interesting how closely Roman Catholicism resembles old covenant Judaism, in many ways. They have a lot in common. I think followers of Christ might need be to be alert and take note, concerning prophecy.

 

[marksman]

All you have is spiritual anarchy all you can produce is spiritual chaos!!!

I am so sorry God. I didn't mean to upset you

 

[marksman]

you’re not an apostle
Paul was speaking as an apostle there!

Who said they were an apostle? The word used was PRIEST!

 

[Truther]

Jesus Christ is the Head of His true church and leads it by HIS SPIRIT.....there is no anarchy where HE is allowed the liberty to lead. But you would need to first of all HAVE the Spirit to understand and experience how He leads by His Spirit.

We are well warned by the story of the Israelites in the bible, when they demanded to have a flesh and blood king/saviour like the pagans have (King Saul). Man in his flesh has no faith in the unseen, the flesh demands to have things that are seen to worship and trust in. Yet we are instructed in one epistle to fix our eyes on what is unseen, not on what is seen and temporal.

Excellent post

 

[theefaith]

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Really now?

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ is the Head of His true church and leads it by HIS SPIRIT.....there is no anarchy where HE is allowed the liberty to lead. But you would need to first of all HAVE the Spirit to understand and experience how He leads by His Spirit.

We are well warned by the story of the Israelites in the bible, when they demanded to have a flesh and blood king/saviour like the pagans have (King Saul). Man in his flesh has no faith in the unseen, the flesh demands to have things that are seen to worship and trust in. Yet we are instructed in one epistle to fix our eyes on what is unseen, not on what is seen and temporal.

did Christ found a church?

 

[theefaith]

The Lord Himself gives various gifts to all the members of His Body, and some are gifted by the Spirit to care for, feed and oversee others. But as Jesus taught, we are to neither give or receive TITLES in His Body, "for we have one Father/Teacher/Master in heaven". Titles and the prestige that comes with them are the way of the world and flesh, not the simplicity of Christ. Why can't those who profess to follow Jesus just simply obey His plain teaching? Hmm? The reason is that sadly many still have a veil of flesh over their eyes...they're blind to His plain and simple word.

It’s a kingdom covenant not a Bible study!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20


1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Christ is king and has all authority and dominion!

Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!

Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!

Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!

But Protestant fundamentalists will not, for satan the first Protestant was in rebellion against God saying: I will not serve! I will not obey!

So who is you’re leader?

All those who submit and obey are Christ’s!

Those who do not are satan’s!

 

[theefaith]

Who said they were an apostle? The word used was PRIEST!

bishops or apostles have jurisdictional hierarchical authority to ordained a priest