Electing New Pope

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Illuminator

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Yes, it's interesting how closely Roman Catholicism resembles old covenant Judaism, in many ways. They have a lot in common.
Catholicism is the fulfilment of Judaism, they are our "elder brothers".
I think followers of Christ might need be to be alert and take note, concerning prophecy.
"Prophecy" according to who? Dave Hunt? I've heard a lot of prophecy in non-Catholic communities, but I've never heard any prophet bashing Catholicism the way you do.
37. Protestantism tends to oppose matter and spirit, favoring the latter, and is somewhat Gnostic or Docetic in this regard.

38. Catholicism upholds the "incarnational principle," wherein Jesus became flesh and thus raised flesh and matter to new spiritual heights.

39. Protestantism greatly limits or disbelieves in sacramentalism, which is simply the extension of the incarnational principle and the belief that matter can convey grace. Some sects (e.g., Baptists, many Pentecostals) reject all sacraments.

40. Protestants' excessive mistrust of the flesh ("carnality") often leads to (in evangelicalism or fundamentalism) an absurd legalism (no dancing, drinking, card-playing, rock music, etc.).

41. Many Protestants tend to separate life into categories of "spiritual" and "carnal," as if God is not Lord of all of life. It forgets that all non-sinful endeavors are ultimately spiritual.

Read more: https://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/misc/a150-reasons-why-i-am-catholic-by-dave-armstrong/
 

Illuminator

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There is, in the Catholic vision of reality, a profound understanding of the impenetration of matter by grace which we call the Incarnational principle. The Incarnation of God the Son as Jesus Christ is the bedrock which underlies the Christian vision of the relationship between God and man. In assuming a human nature, God demonstrates at once that creation, including human nature, is not only good but is capable of being further elevated through the impenetration of the Divine life.

This is the basis of the entire sacramental system, which uses outward (material) signs to transmit to us a share of God’s life, from the initiation of the believer’s journey in Baptism to its conclusion in Anointing of the Sick. It is the basis of the Church, a visible society which itself serves as a living connection between God and man, a sort of meta-sacrament for the transmission and embodiment of grace. It is even the basis for all of society, which begins with a proper understanding of matrimony, which St. Paul tells us is a model for the relationship of Christ and the Church. For in matrimony a man and a woman join in a profound sanctifying union of both body and spirit, a union which is both faithful and fecund, generating new life.

This understanding of the goodness of creation, of matter, of humanity and of human joys and aspirations—and the lesson that this goodness is designed to be further filled, animated and elevated by the love of God—is so central to God’s plan that Christianity begins and ends with it. It begins with God’s self-emptying of glory as He takes on human flesh and it ends in the Resurrection of the glorified Christ, who henceforth forever retains His identity as man.

It ought to be obvious to just about everybody that no other religion incorporates this particular (and particularly profound) understanding of the relationship of nature to nature’s God. Every human philosophy inevitably makes too much of nature or too little, and sometimes both at once, as in modern secularism which sees nature as all and so ignores that to which it points. What may be surprising, however, is that even among Christians those who have doctrinally fallen away from Rome have largely lost the unique and special wholeness of this Christian vision. Thus, from its beginning, Protestantism has been preoccupied with what it regards as the depravity of human nature, its radical incapacity for goodness, its reliance on grace as on something which supplants man’s nature rather than penetrates it.

Here we find the cause of Protestantism’s inability to understand the importance of works to salvation, which led Luther to revise Scripture and declare the letter of St. James to be apocryphal. Here also we have the root of Calvin’s notion that some are predestined for heaven and others for hell by nothing but the arbitrary will of God. Nor are we surprised to find Protestant sects which have outlawed the celebration of Christmas itself, distrusting the human values and human joy which Christmas both represents and fulfills. Indeed, from the point of view of nature, Protestantism must be described as a very thin, a very incomplete religion.

By contrast, Catholicism flowers in nature, transforming and elevating not only man himself but man’s culture. The astonishing achievements of Catholic culture over two millennia—in art and literature, sculpture and architecture, education and government, work and play, fast and feast—are one and all rooted in the Incarnational principle. The sense that the human body is itself a repository of grace, a temple of the Holy Spirit, fosters a unique Catholic mode of being in which the mind and spirit are never alone, never cut off. Rather man worships God in his body, and carries all of nature beyond itself in the quest to fulfill the very end of religion, which is for all creation to give glory to God.

Not in the abstract, then, is Catholic salvation worked out, but in the concrete; not in the general, but in the particular. The Catholic vision is not one of being “attached” to Christ, but of “putting on” Christ (Gal 3:27), not one of merely receiving an external gift, but of living the Christ life deep within—so that I live, no not I, but Christ lives in me (Gal 2:20). Each virtue is cultivated, each habit transformed and elevated, each relationship purified, each work ennobled. And the power for this continuous transformation is nourished—no, actually ingested—and formed into community through the Eucharist, the Word quite literally made Flesh, the Body and Blood really and actually present, not in figure or even in grace alone, but in its very substance.

Every Catholic is called to a life-long process of incorporating (I choose the word advisedly) his whole self, body and soul, into Christ, and not only his self but his loves, his labors, his own small creations, and the entire world over which he has been given dominion. This project, in which no detail is neglected or flattened, and no element lost or discarded, is unique to Catholicism. As I have said, it is a project rooted in the Incarnational principle. But even the Incarnational principle is not so much explained as demonstrated, not so much taught as lived. It was lived first by Christ Himself, born of Mary and protected by Joseph, in Bethlehem, in a stable, in a manger—and so at length in us.

Why Be Catholic? 8: Incarnation
 
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Illuminator

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If anything must be described, then, as a corruption of primitive, pure Christianity, it is Protestantism, not Catholicism, since it introduced a radically new mode of Christian authority which was a 180-degree departure from the established Christian Tradition: that of subjective, private judgment, tied in with the unbiblical, unhistorical, and unreasonable notion of “Scripture Alone.” Protestantism is much more of a corruption, if that word is defined as an essential change of direction or philosophy of an institution or a set of beliefs (in this case theological and spiritual).

One might say that an automobile was “corrupt” if the owner decided that it ran better with no muffler, no shocks, no air or fuel filters, half of its spark plugs, watered-down gas, no rear brakes, one headlight, no heat, three quarts low on oil, with half of its radiator coolant, etc. Corruption can consist of “subtraction” as well as “addition.” Protestantism’s charges against Catholicism, closely scrutinized, only come back to incriminate itself.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2006/03/development-of-doctrine-corruption-of.html
 

Truther

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Really now?

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Yeah, really!
 

BreadOfLife

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And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
I’ve already destroyed this impotent, Scripturally-Bankrupt argument in past conversations.
However – I’ll do it again for those who haven’t had a chance to read

The idea that Jesus forbade us to call ANY man our “Father” on earth in Matt. 23:9 is based in total ignorance of Scripture.

In the verse that precedes this (Matt: 23:8), Jesus tells us not to call people “Teachers”. Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT. He is telling us that no man is to be considered father ABOVE our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher ABOVE our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all:
“They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7)

Consider the following passages:
Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
“For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
"For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
"God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

Do your HOMEWROK, son.
Your ignorance of Scripture is Shameful . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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It's the difference between flesh and spirit. The simplicity of Christ or the hardened-in-cement way of the flesh and world. Anyone can quote scriptures all the day long and not have the mind of Christ by His SPIRIT to perceive how He means them.

1Co 2:10-16

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Well, congratulations – you know how to POST Scripture in a discussion board.
Unfortunately – you DON’T t understand it.

It’s easy to cherry-pick verses out of context in order to make an argument.
It’s a different kettle of fish, however, to read the Scriptures in CONTEXT and to understand that NO single verse of Scripture can contradict ANOTHER.

The anti-Biblical idea that you guys cling to that Christ’s Church ceased to exist and had to be “Reformed” and saved in the 16th century renders Jesus the greatest LIAR in history.

He guaranteed that His Church would NOT succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18.
He DIDN’T guarantee that individuals within that Church wouldn’t succumb.
The real tragedy of your belief system is that YOU guys threw the baby out with the bath water because you didn’t trust Jesus.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Jesus is the one who said His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Yes, purity of devotion, the simplicity of Christ...not sullied by the ways of flesh and the world which the serpent so subtly tries to get us to fall into and has succeeded in large measure. It costs us everything to follow Jesus, yes, we are to count the cost, not without pain and suffering, but it is simple and uncomplicated..... "Not my will but Thine be done."

Like the apostle wrote, " Let us go to Him OUTSIDE THE CAMP, bearing His reproach."
Jesus was comparing the Gospel to the LAW.
THAT’S what He said His yoke was light.

The burdens of the Law are impossible to live perfectly in our fallen state.
Even the Gospel is NOT easy. Jesus said, “Be PERFECT, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect” (Matt. 5:49). NOBODY can meet that standard – so we lean on HIS perfection.

YOU used that verse incorrectly in 2 Cor. 11 when you referred to the “simplicity of Christ” because that is NOT what that verse is talking about.
Picking up your cross DAILY to follow Him (Luke 9:32) is NOT an easy task.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Yes, it's interesting how closely Roman Catholicism resembles old covenant Judaism, in many ways. They have a lot in common. I think followers of Christ might need be to be alert and take note, concerning prophecy.
It’s the FULFILLMENT of the Old Covenant – of Judaism.
EVERY NT Fulfillment resembles its OT Type only in symbolism. The fulfillment is ALWAYS more glorious and perfect that it’s OT Type.

If YOUR sect doesn’t resemble Judaism is any way – then you’re in the WRONG place.
Matt. 5:48
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them BUT TO FULFILL THEM.
 
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Truther

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I’ve already destroyed this impotent, Scripturally-Bankrupt argument in past conversations.
However – I’ll do it again for those who haven’t had a chance to read

The idea that Jesus forbade us to call ANY man our “Father” on earth in Matt. 23:9 is based in total ignorance of Scripture.

In the verse that precedes this (Matt: 23:8), Jesus tells us not to call people “Teachers”. Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT. He is telling us that no man is to be considered father ABOVE our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher ABOVE our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all:
“They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7)

Consider the following passages:
Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
“For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
"For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
"God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

Do your HOMEWROK, son.
Your ignorance of Scripture is Shameful . . .
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Say, "no man".
 

BreadOfLife

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The Lord Himself gives various gifts to all the members of His Body, and some are gifted by the Spirit to care for, feed and oversee others. But as Jesus taught, we are to neither give or receive TITLES in His Body, "for we have one Father/Teacher/Master in heaven". Titles and the prestige that comes with them are the way of the world and flesh, not the simplicity of Christ. Why can't those who profess to follow Jesus just simply obey His plain teaching? Hmm? The reason is that sadly many still have a veil of flesh over their eyes...they're blind to His plain and simple word.
That argument was DESTROYED ion post #425.
First of all – do YOU have a “Pastor”? That’s a TITLE.

Secondly – Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all:
“They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7)
YOU need to read the following verses:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
“For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second Prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28) – ALL of these are TITLES.


Thirdly – you have once again misrepresented the phrase, “simplicity of Christ”. As Ive informed you TWICE now – this is NOT what is meant by 2 Cor. 11:3. This passages refers to purity of devotion to Christ and NOT to a chaotic, and leaderless Church.
 

BreadOfLife

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And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Say, "no man".
God’s not an idiot, Einstein – even if YOU think He IS.
GOD said:
Exod. 20:12
“Honor your FATHER and your MOTHER, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is
giving you.

Game.
SET.
MATCH.
 

Truther

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God’s not an idiot, Einstein – even if YOU think He IS.
GOD said:
Exod. 20:12
“Honor your FATHER and your MOTHER, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is
giving you.

Game.
SET.
MATCH.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Rememer these words highlighted when you kneel to the priest in the black box and beg his forgiveness of your sins.
 

Truther

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"Bless me father for I have sinned".....LOL.