Do they die? Doesn’t Scripture promise us eternity with Him? It is only this cumbersome flesh cage that falls off and we return to the Father.
Election The Chosing Of God
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Do they die? Doesn’t Scripture promise us eternity with Him? It is only this cumbersome flesh cage that falls off and we return to the Father.
The wages of sin is deat, correct? If Christ paid a sin debt to God, why do believers still die?
Spiritual death??? I haven't seen that in the Scriptures.
Butch, that is the best question that not only you ask but many people
ask this same question. The short answer is: God has appointed times.
Let me give you the long answer so we can build a foundation and have
the ability to understand it a little better.
Jesus Christ is, of course the great Healer, the Yahweh Rapha of Exodus
15:26. On the cross He bore our sicknesses (Isaiah 53:4; Matt. 8:17). Yet
Christians continue to be sick. Why? Men have struggled with this question
for centuries. Jesus also died, that we might have immortality, and yet even
the best of Christians continue to die, even if they are convinced that they
will never die. Why? Some say it is all in one's mind, and that if one truly
"appropriates" all that Christ has done for us on the cross, then they would
enjoy supernatural, divine health and would never die.
That answer is inadequate. In fact, it often makes the problem worse,
because it puts unnecessary guilt upon all who experience sickness or
hardship. I do not want my children to experience hardship, but yet I know
that without hardship, they will never really mature. I want them to be rich,
but yet I know that if I give them everything they want, they will never know
the value of what they have. I want them to be in perfect health, but I know
that they would never have godly compassion on the sick unless they
experience sickness for themselves. Even so it is with God, the Creator
of viruses.
My point is to show that the appointed time has not yet arrived for man to
enter the third veil and remain in the Holy of Holies. Jesus Christ is still
making those preparations at the right hand of God, and this is the
purpose of the Pentecostal Age. The divine law also shows the reasons
for the two comings of Christ. I believe that because Christians have not
understood the law, they have made Passover carry the weight of
Tabernacles, not knowing that these feasts have different functions and
purposes. 2nd Cor. 4:6-7 says,
6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who
has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of
God in the face of Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing
greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves;
As His body, we too have this light within us. In 2 Cor. 4:7 above, Paul
refers to it as a "treasure in earthen vessels." This is the reference to
the story of Gideon, whose weapons of war included an earthen
pitcher with a torch inside of it (Judges 7:16). At the appointed time
the army was instructed to blow the trumpet and then break the
earthen vessels to show forth the light. This was prophetic, first of
the Feast of Trumpets (signaling the resurrection of the dead),
followed by the breaking of the earthen vessels, the body of flesh,
the veil hiding the glory. This is a picture of the Feast of Tabernacles,
where the veil is torn and the glorious, unveiled light of God shines
out of darkness into the world. This is the manifestation of the sons
of God, which all creation soon will rejoice to see (Romans 8:19-22).
This will also mark the real beginning of the fulfillment of the word
in Habakkuk 2:14,
14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of
the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
At the present time, the glory of God is veiled in us, because it is
not yet the appointed time to break the earthen vessels. In this
Pentecostal Age the Spirit of God speaks to the world from within
His people, behind the veil of flesh. In the age to come, a greater
light will shine forth, because God's people will be unveiled in a
greater way. Then will begin a time of world evangelism that will
be unprecedented in the history of the earth. The Bible says that
all nations will come to worship Him at that time. ( Isa. 2:2-4 )
In 2 Corinthians 5 Paul finally brings to a climax His commentary
on the Feast of Tabernacles. He starts the chapter by contrasting
our present "tent" of this mortal flesh with the immortal "tent" which
is from above. He is referring to the practice in the time of that feast,
where the people left their houses made of dead wood and stone
in order to live for seven days in a tent made of living branches:
1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down,
we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal
in the heavens.
2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our
dwelling from heaven;
3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, shall not be found naked.
4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened,
because we do not want to be unclothed, but to be clothed, in
order that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
The point is Butch...We "groan" in this present, earthly, mortal house
(or tent), because of its infirmities and its limitations. But we have
another living tent that is immortal. Paul does not say that we are
now clothed with that tent, but that it is reserved for us in the heavens.
Paul clearly tells us that the appointed time has not yet come for us to
claim this tent. Neither Paul nor any other Christian received this tent
when they were justified by faith or even when they received the Spirit
in Pentecost. It is ours today, but we are not yet clothed with that new
body. It is a future hope, and we will be clothed in that tent only at
God's appointed time at the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles.
Logabe
I did! Christians die like everyone else. Everyone sins and everyone dies. Why is that if Christ paid the sin debt to God?
Butch,
You are not following what I'm trying to say, or maybe I'm not saying it well enough. When a flesh body dies does the person, spirit, cease to exist? When did we start? You see I believe Scripture teaches that our souls came from God. We were created way back in the first earth age. When we die, our flesh body, our spirits and souls put on, once again our heavenly body and we return to the Father for judgment. At that point, some souls will cease to exist, they will be blotted out, turned to ashes and smoke for eternity.
wayofthespirit
More often partly wrong than wholly right
This is an intriguing thread and maybe an eyeopener to the nature of the site.
For the first 20 posts the thread remains on topic but thereon becomes a battle for supremacy between two somewhat less directly related points of view regarding 'Debt'
From post 30 onwards three or four others begin to join in but all are so embroiled in the supremacy battle that was developing even further away from the thread that I had to go back to the beginning to find out why the thread had the title 'Election the Chosing of God'.
In the midst of it all jiggyfly contributes post #24 which introduces Universal Reconcilliation (presumably on the basis that it overules the need to differentiate between election and freewill) and that post gets so totally ignored it might as well never have been made.
Will my intrigue develop deeper or am I on the verge of realising what is the intrinsic nature of the site?
Mike.
For the first 20 posts the thread remains on topic but thereon becomes a battle for supremacy between two somewhat less directly related points of view regarding 'Debt'
From post 30 onwards three or four others begin to join in but all are so embroiled in the supremacy battle that was developing even further away from the thread that I had to go back to the beginning to find out why the thread had the title 'Election the Chosing of God'.
In the midst of it all jiggyfly contributes post #24 which introduces Universal Reconcilliation (presumably on the basis that it overules the need to differentiate between election and freewill) and that post gets so totally ignored it might as well never have been made.
Will my intrigue develop deeper or am I on the verge of realising what is the intrinsic nature of the site?
Mike.
Sort of like regular conversation between friends, the topic is there but develops or follows a different line of thought.
You changed the subject from the op also, by the way.
wayofthespirit
More often partly wrong than wholly right
I was referring to the last 27 posts......but only because they happened to be there.
This is bit like you saying that I am intransigent in my opinion that Christians ought not to be intransigent in their opinions.
Good fun ain't it?
Mike.
Well, there are few points there that don't seem to fit scripture but that is not what i am talking about. Paul said that death came through Adam, because of sin, then he said the wages of sin is death (physical). If Christ paid the "sin debt" owed to God why do Christians still physically die?
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Figure it out yourself <_<
I have figured it out, I was asking you. The passage you quoted does not address the issue.
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