CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Why in the world would you believe that? So he was just floating out there forever all alone?
EPHESIANS 4:8 CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE
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Why in the world would you believe that? So he was just floating out there forever all alone?
So the altar in heaven is not really in heaven? John was not seeing things in heaven when he saw the altar?
Is it not an error to switch "Lord" with the "earth" in making that connection in how we are prisoners?
More specifically...
Since Christians aren't taught that the 'Lowest Parts of the Earth' is actually the Womb, they are unable to comprehend what is happening in these passages.
The Lowest Parts of the Earth is the Womb...
In other words, Hell is a parable for the Womb where we all came from.
Therefore, Jesus descended into the Wombs of the pregnant women that were around in those days and gave gifts to them.
This is what Jesus did while he was in each Mother's Womb...
Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations"
The gifts are given before birth...
Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers"
Jesus gave those gifts to the unborn children in the 'Lower Parts of the Earth', not to the adults!
Just read the entire chapter to see all of the references to children developing in the Uterus, such as this...
Ephesians 4:14
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive"
and this...
Ephesians 4:15
"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ"
and this...
Ephesians 4:16
"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love"
See that?
It's about a Fetus developing into Children and then Adults in Christ.
Then you switched "hell" to the "womb" from where we all came from and where Christ descended to in order to give gifts to all men? Think about the implications here. That would mean every body since then, born from the womb, is saved, because they know the gospel & have the gift of the Holy Ghost. It doesn't track for preaching unto the "prisoners" in the womb.
1 Samuel 28:8-20 has the former King Saul using a medium to "bring up" the spirit of Samuel the prophet and since Jesus's parable has Abraham's bosom located across a great gulf from hell below as a better place for the spirits of O.T. saints to wait, that is where Jesus had descended to in getting the keys to the gates of hell and death so as to lead the captivity captive out of there where now after His ascension, Abraham's bosom, aka Paradise is now located in the third Heaven where Christ dwells now with the Father as reported by Paul regarding the apostle John's visit for the Book of Revelation.
That means now when any believer dies, their spirits are with the Lord in Heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.The terror mentioned here is in regards to which resurrection a believer will find himself in; as part of the first fruit of the resurrection as a vessel unto honor to be received by the Bridegroom for abiding in Him & His words in the KJV or the terror in the consequence to be disqualified and left behind as vessels unto dishonor for not looking to Him for help to discern good and evil to expose the works of darkness so he can lean on Him to lay aside every weight & sin in departing from iniquity.
That is why those souls of left behind saints & new saints after the rapture that are going through the great tribulation are the ones under that altar in Heaven that needed to have white robes given to them in Revelation 6:9-11 as those arrayed in white robes are described as those that came through the great tribulation in Revelation 7:9-17.
So leading the captivity captive is me seeing Jesus taking Paradise aka Abraham's bosom to Heaven when He had ascended to Heaven as a holding place now while He prepares a place for the souls of the O.T. saints and the N.T. saints abiding in Him to be received at the first fruit of the resurrection when Jesus comes as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven held in His honor and to His glory.
Elisha saw a whirlwind took Elijah into the heaven ( upper atmosphere ) whereas Jesus told His disciples where He was going, to the Father in Heaven.
Enoch was also taken as I believe he and Elijah are traveling through time & will be dropped off as the two witnesses with great power for the great tribulation in Revelation 11:3-13 when eventually they will be killed, resurrected, and taken up halfway through the great tribulation as vessels unto honor in His House before God unleashes His wrath. That will be when I believe they will enter into Heaven where God dwells since flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and has to put on the incorruptible before they can enter in their glorified resurrected physical celestial bodies.
Since Philip was taken from one place to another in Acts 8:39-40, and since no flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God as the corruptible has to put on the incorruptible... and since Jesus said that no man has ascended into Heaven yet, and yet strangely, there are 2 witnesses with great power for half of the great tribulation that will eventually be killed, resurrected, and taken into Heaven about halfway thru the great tribulation as vessels unto honor in His House, I tend to think Enoch & Elijah are traveling through time for when they will be dropped off as the 2 witnesses for the great tribulation.
I see what you are saying about Acts 2:34 but you have to look at the whole text as to why Peter said David had not ascended.
Acts 2:24 says Christ was raised....even if you say John 3:13, in saying no man ascended, was only speaking of the time before the resurrection of Christ, Acts 2 is set after his resurrection.
Acts 2:25-28 Peter is citing David speaking in Psalm 16:8-11
Acts 2:29 Peter says David is dead and buried
Acts 2:30 Peter speaks of David knowing Christ would be raised up from the dead to sit on David's throne
Acts 2:31 Peter is saying that the resurrection of Christ was in view, not David's resurrection, when David spoke of his soul not being left in hell
Acts 2:32 Peter is confirming that it is Jesus who is raised up
Acts 2:34 Peter is saying that David is not ascended into the heavens, Christ is.
So at the time of Acts 2, Post resurrection of Christ, David is not in heaven.
VictoryinJesus
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“when He ascended up on high” and gave gifts unto men...
James 1:16–17 (LEB): Do not be deceived, my dear brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of change.
cant get past meditating on “He ascended up on high” and every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from that “ascended up on high”. So that: By his* will he gave birth to us through the message of truth, so that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.James 1:18 (LEB):
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
In the same spirit of/as Elijah, John the Baptist, of which I apply as a metaphor, but not as Elijah physically himself.
But since we prophesy in part and know in part, if the Lord teaches me otherwise until He comes, that is fine by me.
I love how your mind works. You always dig deep to challenge the Status Quo.
So this is where I see things differently than what is generally taught out there. Other forums always ban me for teaching what I'm about to say here.
I believe that the Bible teaches that the Third Heaven is the Kingdom of God Within and not Earth's Atmosphere our whatever.
I also believe that the Third Heaven is very literal as in Biology, Atoms, Human Anatomy, Spirit, Soul etc.
Something like this...
If One does a study on what the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven is, One will find they all have something in common.
All of the verses describe the Microcosm of Life, Righteous vs. Unrighteous and things that happen 'Within'...
Romans 14:17
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost"
It's about becoming Born Again via the Microcosm of the Seed...
Matthew 13:31
"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field"
Abraham's Seed.
So with that in mind, I believe that both Paul and John were given visions of how the Kingdom of God Within works to ultimately transform the Tabernacle of the Saved into the Glorified Body.
They were given intimate details of Human Anatomy. More specifically, they were given visions of Abraham's Bosom or Paradise...
2 Corinthians 12:2
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven"
Notice the verse seems to have a double meaning. 'In the Body' can be understood as the Microcosm (Third Heaven). 'Out of the body' can be understood as the Macrocosm (Second Heaven).
I believe the word 'Paradise' in this verse is specifically referring to Abraham's Bosom...
2 Corinthians 12:4
"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter"
So what did Paul and John see?
Twenty Four Elders = Abraham's Rib Cage
Throne of God = Abraham's Heart
Slain Lamb = Abram's Blood or Seed/DNA
Seven Spirits = Abraham's Lungs
Etc.
It is the Kingdom of God 'Within'...
Long story short, Abraham's Bosom still exists and that is where the Saved are to this day, sleeping and awaiting the time that they can receive their Glorified Bodies.
They are 'Abraham's Seed' waiting for Sarah (New Jerusalem) to come down so that the Wedding between Abraham and Sarah can take place...
Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all"
Here are the Saved in Abraham's Bosom...
Revelation 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"
Note that the word 'Palm' in Greek is Phoenix as in a 'Rebirth' is about to take place.
The Lamb will lead those (Seed) in Abraham's Bosom through Sarah's 'Pearly Gates' (Yoni) to the Waters inside Sarah's Uterus...
Revelation 7:17
"For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes"
The Tree of Life is Sarah's Ovaries...
Once the Lamb leads the Saved to the Tree, a Heavenly form of Conception can take place and they can receive the Glorified Body.
Now imagine the Church trying to teach all of this?
Narrow is the Gate.
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Not all men.
However, I do believe *all* will be saved in the end since I believe Reincarnation was taught and promoted by Jesus in order to accomplish that goal.
What you posted is a common teaching in which I vehemently disagree with.
This is how I interpret that teaching...
Once upon a time, there was an evil demon called Abraham that kept prisoners in his bosom. A daring escape plan was devised in which Jesus would break into Abraham's wicked jail system and rescue all of the poor souls that were being held there against their will. When the time was right, Jesus slayed wicked Abraham and "led captivity captive".
There is simply no way I would ever believe such an outrageous interpretation. The Church really needs to discard that teaching.
1 Peter 3:20
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water"
Reincarnation people. God really does give the Unsaved another chance.
Yeah I know...
The hatred in your Hearts is too great to overcome this Revelation. You want your enemies to 'burnforever' or be 'annihilated'.
Sorry to have to introduce Truth into your Safe Spaces...
Luke 6:27
"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you"
God's Love is greater than ours could ever be.
Wow base, I thought everyone would think I was crazy but they will think I am completely sane compared to you...
You seriously believe that Christ would take all the OT saints from Hades to Heaven, but leave David behind? You have taken that saying about David out of context to support your false teachings.
ACTS 2: THE RESURRECTION, ASCENSION, AND EXALTATION OF CHRIST
1. CHRIST WAS IN SHEOL/HADES FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in [SHEOL/HADES], neither his flesh did see corruption. [Note: this is a reference to Psalm 16:10 a prophecy of the resurrection of Christ]
2. CHRIST WAS RESURRECTED AND HIS FLESH DID NOT EXPERIENCE CORRUPTION (DECAY)
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
3. CHRIST ASCENDED TO HEAVEN AFTER 40 DAYS AND WAS EXALTED
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. [Note: The Holy Spirit could not be sent down at Pentecost until Christ was exalted in Heaven]
4. DAVID SPOKE OF CHRIST IN BOTH PSALMS 16 AND 110 (WHICH ALSO REFERS TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK).
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD [God the Father] said unto my Lord [the Lord Jesus Christ], Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. [Note: The unique ascension of Christ is being taught]
DAVID IS IN HEAVEN WITH ALL THE OTHER OT SAINTS
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to [1] an innumerable company of angels, To [2] the general assembly and church of the firstborn [the NT saints who have passed on], which are written in heaven, and to [3] God the Judge of all, and to [4] the spirits of just men made perfect [the OT saints which include David], And to [5] Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant, and to [6] the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24) [Note: all the saints are now in Heaven, and Christians who die go to Heaven]
If you have Him descending to the womb in giving gifts to the prisoners/captives, how does that not equate to all people born from the womb of a woman?
There are no scripture testifying to that effect. There are scripture testifying to reproving the concept of reincarnation.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
2 Corinthians 6:1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
Seeing how Paradise had existed way before Abraham came along for the nation of Israel and Jesus to call it Abraham's bosom by reference for the nation of Israel listening to Him, I would suggest you rethink that since it is not what I am saying at all. You only assume the opposite of what you are saying in a direction for which I never alluded to in the first place. Abraham is not a god that created that place, but God did create that place for why it is also known as "Paradise" because of the saints, the sons of God, before the global flood and before Israel became a nation starting with Abraham.
You have to consider the lineage of Adam and then of Seth to Noah and to Abraham as the sons of God.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, 24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,... .. 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
So Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was a holding place for the souls of sons of God beneath the earth until Jesus's resurrection and ascension when He took Paradise up there with Him where it is now located, waiting for the firstfruits of the resurrection.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Sure there is. In fact, Reincarnation is one of the main themes of the Bible. The Church hid this fact from Christians centuries ago under threat of death to anyone that believed or promoted the idea.
That stranglehold is still there to this day.
The last thing Satan wants is for the world to realize that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob really is Love. The Church of course teaches the opposite... that a Loving God torments his Creation for all of eternity or gets rid of them altogether.
This is why the rest of the world thinks you people are a total joke and failure.
It doesn't take too many brain cells to see the irreconcilable contradiction in that false teaching.
It's sad to watch you people debate this endlessly with no resolution... EVER. The World sees it too.
You know it's the darnedest thing...
Every single time someone posts that verse, they never bother to explain how it debunks Reincarnation.
It's actually scary to see the robotic way in which they do that. It's like a form of brainwashing or something someone under hypnosis would do.
They don't know why they do it, they just do it as an automatics Pavlov's Dog reaction. Crazy.
Anyhow...
Since you didn't bother explaining what the verse means, I will do it for you.
Let's look at that verse again...
Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"
What the Church is hoping to deceive folks into believing is that the verse says something like...
"Everyone has to die and it's only one time".
If this were True, then verses about the Rapture for example, would be in contradiction.
Millions of Christians look forward to the day they will not taste of death and be with the LORD in the air...
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"
Too bad that's not going to happen... unless of course Hebrews 9:27 doesn't mean what they're telling us it means.
What about Enoch and Elijah? They never died. Did God lie again?
Genesis 5:24
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"
Perhaps Enoch will Reincarnate... oops, I mean magically appear in a flesh body one day as one of the Two Witnesses.
Have you folks ever noticed that when someone is caught in a lie, they often make up stories?
Since Christians are taught that Reincarnation is not Biblical, Pastors must make up silly excuses like...
"The Two Witnesses aren't *really* the return of two famous Blble characters... they are merely 'Crisis Actors' playing the part". "It's all just a LARP because Reincarnation...".
What about Lazarus who rose from the dead?
John 11:14
"Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead"
Die once? Nope, not for Lazarus.
And the Valley of Dry Bones?
Ezekiel 37:10
"So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army"
So many stories of the dead rising again, only to die later.
And let's not forget the most condemning verses contradicting the 'Die Once' deception...
Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death"
'Die once' and 'die twice' is an obvious contradiction no matter how One tries to spin it.
There are several verses that mention a Second Death, thus there are no problems with 'translation errors'.
Obviously Hebrews 9:27 has been grossly misinterpreted by those that try and use it to debunk Reincarnation.
Now if we go outside of Scripture and actually look for evidence, we find that there are thousands upon thousands of very well documented cases of children remembering past lives.
What does the Christian say? THEY ARE ALL DEBIL POSSESSED!!!
Yeah, OK. Show us the verses in the Bible of Children remembering past lives and how it's "Debil Possesion". Don't bother. It's not there.
Let's clear this up once and for all...
All Hebrews 9:27 is teaching is that for every death, there is a judgement. That's it. One Death = One Judgement... simple.
In other words, One cannot live a life of 'Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll' and escape judgement each time. They will reap what they sow in the next life. All is fair. All is just.
God Truly is Love and will redeem everyone in the end. And for some strange reason, Christians are so psychotic, so unbelievably hypocritical and hateful of their enemies, they actually despise that idea!
Lol... That's Christians for ya! So called anyhow...
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The myth of reincarnation is ancient dating back to Nimrod and Semiramis, his wife. This was about 400 years after the flood. After Nimrod died, Semiramis became pregnant and claimed that the illegitimate son she bore, Tammuz, was Nimrod reborn. This started the "mother and child" goddess and son beliefs that spread from Babylon (Babel) to every country in the world. Asoreth (called the Queen of Heaven in the Bible and Tammuz, Isis and Horus, Venus and Cupid, and many more. When Christianity became the state religion in Rome, to make the transition less painful, they superimposed Mary and the child Jesus onto their present goddess and son entities. This is why you won't find the "Assumption of Mary" or any of the other "holy traditions" in the Bible. But you'll find many pagan symbols and relics such as the rosary still being used to honor their goddess. Satan is alive and well in those churches.
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It would have been better to reply with references to that effect then beat around the bush.
If now is the day of salvation for after we die, judgment does not come, then a sinner can put off seeking to be saved from their sins indefinitely, and it is not going to happen.
It's actually scary to see the robotic way in which they do that. It's like a form of brainwashing or something someone under hypnosis would do.
The firstfruits of the resurrection is a celestial state where we will become like the angels that never die.
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
That is not reincarnation into the land of the living as somebody else and in some other body through another family where we will sin and die again.
Those saints resurrected out of the great tribulation will not have the power of the second death over them but it does imply physical death still is, but they are not being reincarnated as in being born again through another mother into another family in being somebody else.
Resurrection is not reincarnation.
Philip was transported with the Spirit from one place to another;
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
So the 2 witnesses, Enoch and Elijah, are each being transported from their own time period where they will wind up together with great power in Jerusalem for some of the time during the great tribulation before they die for the first time, raised from the dead, and told to come up hither as vessels unto honor in His House.
So you are stretching it with reincarnation. There is no solid scripture teaching to that effect. Resurrection is not reincarnation and reincarnation is not resurrection.
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