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Escape from a Death Cult:

Discussion in 'Testimonial Forum' started by Dave L, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Once, while young in the faith, I fell into what would become one of the deadliest Word of Faith cults in North America, the Glory Barn Faith Assembly of northern Indiana. God providentially delivered me by what most would call a twist of fate.

    I ran into this group through another Pentecostal group. Later, after a job transfer into their region, I began fellowship with them. Nothing stood out as unusual. They had the typical adrenalin driven praise and worship most Pentecostal churches have. But I left the region after a year when my job ended. After a couple of years my wife and I returned to the region and they had grown from around 100 to perhaps a 1000.

    During this time, we heard about a few people dying of treatable reasons. But they blamed this on lack of faith. Or their faith must not have been genuine. But it wasn’t too long before God led us out in a most unusual way.

    One night they presented the Limited Atonement doctrine so they could teach against it. This was the first I ever heard of Limited Atonement. But the doctrine, even though presented in the most disagreeable way, spoke to me. And after hearing the universal atonement doctrine in contrast, it dawned on me that we had come to an impasse.

    I needed to make a choice. If Limited Atonement is true, then faith and healing didn’t work the way they said it did. And it would explain why some died from commonly treatable ailments. After a group discussion on the way home, it was our last involvement with them.

    Maybe a year passed when we began hearing about their unusually high infant mortality rates. And others dying from easily treated illnesses. Over one hundred preventable deaths happened over a ten year period reaching into the late eighties, the main teacher being one of them.

    When a person believes in universal atonement, the belief that Christ died for every person, they also must believe his death did not save anyone, since most perish. To explain this, they turn the gospel into law. And then offer salvation only to those who choose to meet the conditions. When the gospel instead only announces whosoever believes has eternal life. But with the legalistic gospel, the conditions range from partaking of Sacraments to deciding for Christ. In this case the condition was faith.

    The Glory Barn people also believed the same conditions you met for salvation, would also merit healing. But what led them to their deaths was thinking God does not use doctors since it’s not in the bible. And the teaching that whatever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). So as soon as they claimed healing and set their minds to believe, it bound their consciences. And it would be sinning to alter course and go to a doctor.

    But this was not biblical faith. It was concentrating on an ideal. Mental Focus they mislabeled faith. A mental fixation they believed God would honor any time they found “biblical support” and conjured it up. But biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is something God gives to us, telling us he saved us or healed us. And when not present, it means God is not moving us in that direction. When present, we can know it is the direction God is moving us in. It's all about the witness of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We pray and the Holy Spirit aligns us through faith with the time and place and means of God’s provision.
     
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  2. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    We had experience with a cultish ex-pentecostal group. Our infant son had great discernment and would cry everytime we went into their assembly. His little spirit knew something was, wrong. We stayed for a few weeks but always were wary of them. They were very legalistic and a spirit of domination and control was very evident.

    The Lord was teaching us and wanted us to see what was out there in the way of deceit. I told the pastor I didn't trust him and we left. The night before our first visit with them my wife and I both had dreams about witchcraft. Controlling people is what witchcraft, psychology etc. is all about.

    Fortunately the things God had showed me when He saved me outside of any church walls were my foundation. Those things in agreement with His word. We would rather be lonely than become a POW in a cult.

    Lots of snares out there.
     
  3. TheHolyBookEnds

    TheHolyBookEnds Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance. Ignorance. Ignorance.

    Jer_8:22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
    Mat_9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
    Mar_2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    Luk_4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
    Luk_5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
    Col_4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

    Proper (scriptural) Physicians (godly persons, basing their practices upon scripture/creation, natural), not 'sorceries' (pharmakeia, and the unnatural).

    Ignorance. Ignorance. Ignorance.

    Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    Ignorance to throw out the true "science" (godly knowledge) with the corrupted and cankered (cancered) "science (knowledge) falsely so called" (1 Timothy 6:10), for even the devil knows his art (Revelation 13:3,12).

    Luke even gave Paul advice in matters of Timothy (2 Timothy 4:11; 1 Timothy 5:23 (grape juice with water for nutrients to heal the stomach, phytochemicals, and water to cleanse, etc.)).

    Ignorance. Ignorance. Ignorance.

    They need to stop following men, and follow Jesus Christ (the Great Physician), and read the Bible (KJB).

    Jer 15:18 Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?
    Jer 15:19 Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

    Hos 5:13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.

    They went to the false physcians, instead of the True!

    They refuse God's laws on health, diet, and body:

    Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

    They will reap what they themselves have sown to their own flesh (they eat animals, blood, fat, tons of sugar, drugs (caffeine, etc), and will reap more than they sow, for that is the law of sowing and reaping. Sow to the wind (a small issue), and you will reap a whirlwind (a great storm, some 30, some 60 and some 100 fold). God will not be mocked. They will perish, if they do not repent. It is already written, 1 Corinthians 10; Psalms 78; Numbers 11. As it was in the days of Noe, and Lot. They "ate", "drank", not to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31), but to their own lusts, desires and bellies (Romans 16:18; 1 Corinthians 6:13; Philippians 3:19). They think Romans 14, as they abuse it, will justify them, and so many other texts they rob of their proper meaning to justify their desperately wicked hearts. God has mercy upon the truly ignorant, but that doesn't mean that consequences still do not follow from their actions/thoughts. God is longsuffering, but soon, the hand will fall, Isaiah 30:30.
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible clearly reveals that Christ died for the sins of the whole world -- He tasted death for EVERY MAN (Heb 2:9; 1 John 2:2). At the same time salvation is not automatic. Every sinner must obey the Gospel -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Which means that Limited Atonement is FALSE DOCTRINE.

    As to this cult and their refusal to go to doctors, that is a separate issue. Christian Science is another example of such a cult.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    The problem with universal atonement is that it doesn't pay for anyone's sins, or all would be saved. It only makes works salvation possible for those who save themselves through obedience.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing this......
     
  7. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    They're more common than we even know. Our experiences with God seem peculiar compared with mainstream Christianity, if there is such a thing.

    He's kept us separate and made us able to cleave to Him with our might. Yes, we get very lonely very starved for Christian fellowship but the Holy Spirit sees us through. Churches we used to attend have gone the way of the nothing but prosperity and blue skies teaching. Nothing about enuring hardness as good soldiers of Jesus christ.

    Earlier I knew that you had experienced some great tribulation regarding religion. We are all shaped more by adversity than ease.

    Our trust is in the savior altogether. Amen
     
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  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Okay, since God doesn’t heal every one then the explanation is deliverence is limited and not for all? 1 John 2:2 “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

    How many excuses will we make? God never promised physical healing. Faith for physical healing fails and man makes up excuses as to why that is. God promised Spiritual healing...restoration between God and man. What a promise. We act as if it isn’t good enough...we want the physical to or God is not of a truth. God promised to carry the heavy burden man could not carry alone. God promised to remove the yoke. 1 Kings 12:11 [11] And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

    Luke 10:19
    [19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    God promised to give us treasure in heaven. God promised whatever we asks in His name: He will give it. He promised to set the captives free. He promised to raise the (spiritually) dead into life. He promised to heal the (spiritually) sick and deliver them from the hand of the enemy. God promised to make a person WHOLE by joining them to Christ and His body. God promised to be a Father to the fatherless...a husband to the Widows. He promised power, love, and a sound mind.

    When physical healing doesn’t manifest. Why not look at the obvious and go to the doctor...God never promised physical healing. Be thankful and praise Him for offering the spiritual healing. Stop advoiding looking into the truth: we are determined to force what God said to fit what we want instead of what He wants. Which is mercy and for those that need healing (spiritually) restoration to God to enter into His kingdom.

    Mark 16:17-18
    [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. —-as long as we force and insist this is literal and not spiritual then we promote a lie and people die off that lie. We as good as had a part in it. To say it ended is also a lie, that prevents the kingdom.


    John 14:12-13
    [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    There is no greater work than that of the spiritual work.
     
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  9. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Re healing, God called me out in a congregation 40+ years ago and said he was healing me of a heart condition. I had been having terrible pains + the fear that goes with it. I've never been to a doctor for my heart. Other ailments remain unhealed.

    I still believe in his healing touch and like Job will trust him to death. Lord, where could we go you have the words of eternal life.

    We have seen much healing after prayers with a punting with oil and laying on of hands. We pray as best we can but leave results to Him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  10. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Frank, I’m not suggesting God didn’t heal you physically. All I am suggesting is that when God says “I will”... It means He will. If that healing doesn’t manifest in the physical; it doesn’t weaken the truth in that God said “I will”.
     
  11. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Be it unto you according as you have believed.

    Matthew 9:29-30 KJVS
    Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. [30] And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it .

    Fortunately I escaped sitting in a denominational pew and hearing why God wouldn't do anything for me. He didn't want to to heal me, help me, deliver me. All His power was for way back then or in the sweet by and by when I need it in the filthy here and now. Praying "if it be thy will" while getting your black suit out of the mothballs is not the prayer of faith. Thank God I had men of faith praying over me!

    Psalm 30:2 KJVS
    O Lord my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.

    If I ask and he says, no then well but I was not taught to fear asking him. So many I've spoken to, especially denominationalists, seem to feel, nay believe, that it's a sin even to ask.

    Fear of God is one thing but being afraid to approach Him about everything is not drawing closer to him.

    Psalm 62:8 must abide.

    As his child I do not expect a blow from every encounter with the Heavenly Father.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Through my experience I learned what Jesus taught about faith and healing. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So when we pray, if faith is present in our hearts, it tells us God is providing our needs. But this is not head faith that we conjure up thinking God promised to honor it.
     
  13. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    That faith for our children God planted in our hearts first as a seed. Then He sent a prophet to tell my wife she would indeed receive her heart's desire. That prophet was a stranger to us. Doctors through many tests etc including A. I. concluded that my wife's body killed my sperm on contact, that she was in effect allergic to it and they had no remedy. We knew God, doctor Jesus could overrule their judgements. This all took years.

    Then he began to give us dreams and visions about our son. Every foretold child in the bible was a son and we'd been given his name.

    Married in 1966 Nathan was born on June 25,1980 9months after the Holy Spirit told me through a tongue and interpretation that He'd fulfilled His promise.

    There's an inner witness, a knowing in your spirit that you are, speaking for God. The same witness I've had as I stood in congregations prophesying in His name. It bypasses the natural mind altogether as saith the scripture.

    1 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJVS
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I'm non charismatic, but know the inner leading of the Spirit at every fork in the road. (Do what love would do). And I know whenever faith is present, it is God telling me I have the my needs met.
     
  15. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Mark 16:17-18
    [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    “...they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” A sick person is not always healed and recovers physically, every time. Every healing Jesus did or casting out of demons or raising of the dead demonstrated the great things He would do in the Spiritual. Therefore it is a spiritual promise that is always- not-sometimes, overshadowed by the desire to hold onto what is passing away. It is a wonderful blessing...that “...they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” Made whole by being joined to life(Christ) and His body. Healed in restoration to God.
     
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  16. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    I see that he didn't really heal them so they would be healed. Your inference is he wasn't touched by their situation. Have you never had a desperate life or death need? I pray not. It's a fearful thing and you are not praying for some deep teaching, just to be healed. Simply that. I've lived with those needs, in my family all of my life. When you are dying and desperate for help you don't look for deeper, spiritual meanings.

    When Jesus healed it was not for ulterior purposes or deep unfathomable meanings. He actually wanted them healed, not just a demonstration to underline a teaching. When He heals you You will contemplate everything about him. About his word, about his love, about his ways. You desire to know him.

    Devil's are cast out because they are trespassers and fight against all of God's works.

    His Holy Spirit dwelling in those who asked him in, is overseer of all healings, deliverances, miracles and gifts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Every day, Frank. He never said being crucified with Him would be painless. I also believe God is full of mercy. I’ve read your testimonies of constant pain, pain you are right I could probably never imagine. But I have been broken also. Im not saying Jesus healings were a trick or manipulation but demonstrate a truth that does comfort in the midst of suffering...this present condition is not all there is. There is no doubt the Lord is full of pitty and mercy for our sufferings. He bore them alongside us. If physical healing was His main purpose, then He would do that first. Why leave His here to suffer slow painful deaths(sleeping) if not for something inconceivably better. The Son of God, the prophets, the apostles all suffered things we could never imagine. Painful things. Insurmountable odds and rejection. Do you think God had no mercy on them?

    Acts 9:11-16
    [11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, [12] And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. [13] Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: [14] And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. [15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
     
  18. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Let that suffering be of God's design and not of a self imposed one. Strangely people take an affliction an say "I'm just suffering for the Lord" when the thing was brought by the devil.

    Day to day life is affliction enough for most. The cares of this life Jesus understands.

    Whatever I experience is as nothing against what others I know endure. It's wrong to suppose our afflictions are greater than those of others.

    JMO but I believe Paul's greatest affliction was in having Satan continually show him the faces and voices of those he helped put to death. This would be far more torment than any physical pain.

    Never the less I will continue to pray for healing of the sick and deliverance of the captives.

    A true God sent revival is needed more than any program of man. God needs, obedient disciples not another denomination.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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