Eternal Security- What does the Bible say?

[accdan]

Here Is a scripture that I have not heard a great explination from by those who believe in the eternal security of a believer in Christ. The Word of God here is very plain here, but somehow people manage to twist it until it's true meaning is totally lost.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Here are some more from Hebrews.

Heb 12:15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16  Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17  For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hmm. Eternal security eh?

How about something from Jesus- for all you who don't think that we should trust the whole Bible-

Mathew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Here is Peter's take-

2Pe 2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Still think the doctrine of eternal security is heavily supported by scripture?

If you would like to respond to this forum topic I suggest not throwing out other scripture before adressing most if not all of the scripture that I have given.

Did I take this scripture out of context maybe? Should I smash my head against a concrete wall to better understand what he Bible is teaching here?

 

[Caffus]

I think noone understands the Bible completly..which is why there is so many differant doctrines saying they are Biblical. I geuss we all have to wait and see when we get to the other side what the real truth is. I do not belive once you belived you always will belive becuase I have true life experiance that says other wise. To me the Bible seems to support both doctrines. That you have eternal security and that you may not as well. Who knows but God.

 

[mark s]

Still think the doctrine of eternal security is heavily supported by scripture?

Yes, I do!

If you would like to respond to this forum topic I suggest not throwing out other scripture before adressing most if not all of the scripture that I have given.

Would it matter? Have you reconciled these passages with the others, such as, oh, wait, we're supposed to only look at these, right?

Did I take this scripture out of context maybe?

Do you think that's a possibility?

Should I smash my head against a concrete wall to better understand what the Bible is teaching here?

Doesn't that seem silly?

Love in Christ,
Mark

Which verse is it that says that those who have been born again die again? Any of these? Which verse is it that says that those who have been crucified with Christ may yet be lost?

You can look at verses that do not make these sorts of specific statements, and not look at verses that do make those specific statements towards the born again never being lost. And then what do you have?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[veteran]

....

Still think the doctrine of eternal security is heavily supported by scripture?

If you would like to respond to this forum topic I suggest not throwing out other scripture before adressing most if not all of the scripture that I have given.

Did I take this scripture out of context maybe? Should I smash my head against a concrete wall to better understand what he Bible is teaching here?

No, you didn't take those Scriptures out of their Biblical context. Those Scriptures are not just about a believer that falls away because of deception yet still believes. It's more about those who once... believed, but then chose darkness instead, no longer believing or seeking our Lord Christ Jesus. It would be like a former Christian who turns atheist. And it happens with some.

 

[williemac]

Here Is a scripture that I have not heard a great explination from by those who believe in the eternal security of a believer in Christ. The Word of God here is very plain here, but somehow people manage to twist it until it's true meaning is totally lost.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Here are some more from Hebrews.

Heb 12:15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hmm. Eternal security eh?

How about something from Jesus- for all you who don't think that we should trust the whole Bible-

Mathew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Here is Peter's take-

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Still think the doctrine of eternal security is heavily supported by scripture?

If you would like to respond to this forum topic I suggest not throwing out other scripture before adressing most if not all of the scripture that I have given.

Did I take this scripture out of context maybe? Should I smash my head against a concrete wall to better understand what he Bible is teaching here?

I have time to reply to Heb.6, as you requested.
Can't help but notice the quote begins in vs 4. However, in doing that, we miss the context. The auther just got through telling them that there is no need to revisit the foundations. Therefore, the rest of his commentary is the explanation why. Here it is.If a person should actually fall away, it is impossible to renew him again to repentance. If it were not impossible, then a person could get saved again and would need to lay the foundation once again. So, the point he is making is that the foundation need laying only one time because salvation only happens one time. There is no such thing as saved, lost, saved, lost, etc.

This brings about the subject of the question as to what exactly causes one to lose the gift of life. Is it sin? If that were the case, then one would need to prove that we gain life by not sinning. Good luck with that, everyone.

On the other hand, we know that God gives grace to the humble, and resists the proud. We also know from Rom.10:9,10, that salvation is by our faith and our confession of faith. Those things are our part. So as long as we keep our part, we can be secure.

The only thing one can fall away from is grace. And the only way for that to happen is to fall from faith one way or the other. And since one needs humility in order to accept the free gift of life from God (through faith), grace will not be denied the humble who have Christ by faith.

We can indeed be secure that what God has promised, He will deliver. In fact, He has given us His Spirit as a garuntee.

So unless I deliberately bury my talent as it were, I will bear fruit. And unless I deliberately change my mind and walk away from faith in Christ (through works of law, as the Galatians, or otherwise), I can be assured of His promise. God cannot lie.

I am secure in that knowledge. God is faithful.

As for 2Peter, the context describes those who, although they knew the way, did not actually ever recieve the gift of life in the first place. Read 2:9. Believing something is not the same as having faith in Christ, and especially not the same as having Christ. Those who have the Son, have life. Jesus will say.." I never knew you"..He will not say..." I once knew you, but now I don't". Peter is describing those without life, and ultimately, without the Spirit.

blessings, Howie

 

[accdan]

Which verse is it that says that those who have been born again die again? Any of these? Which verse is it that says that those who have been crucified with Christ may yet be lost?

You can look at verses that do not make these sorts of specific statements, and not look at verses that do make those specific statements towards the born again never being lost. And then what do you have?

Hebrews 6 is pretty- or should I say very- specific. Being a partaker of the Holy Ghost means you are a true believer (born-again or whatever other adjective you use). To say that no true believer can fall away from their salvation would be to contradict this scripture.

 

[mark s]

Hebrews 6 is pretty- or should I say very- specific. Being a partaker of the Holy Ghost means you are a true believer (born-again or whatever other adjective you use). To say that no true believer can fall away from their salvation would be to contradict this scripture.

Meanwhile, this passage does not use that terminology - born again - raised with Christ - died with Christ - these sorts of specific, technical terms that leave no question of what is being said.

You are equating having been a "partaker of the Holy Spirit" with being born again, but is that Biblically accurate?

Other passages, which you do not wish to discuss, use the specific terminology of being raised with Christ, having died with Him, leaving no room for the person who was born again to be lost. Can't happen.

If this passage were to actually mean that, then you'd have a serious contradiction of Scripture.

This passage in Hebrews could just the same - personally, I think much more likely - be talking about those people who received from Jesus' personal ministry while He was here on earth. "Partaker" here is not "koinonia", for instance. "The powers of the world to come", to me, points to Jesus' kingdom preaching and the signs and wonders.

But whether you agree with me or not, this comes down to disputing over words - we'll get nowhere. Meanwhile, we could look at those passages that actually make direct specific statements about the nature of our regeneration, and settle the matter easily.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Axehead]

The True Believer is eternally secure. He will not lose his salvation like losing a set of car keys. If he is in Christ and abiding in Christ, God can be completely trusted.

There is no security for the Unbeliever and many Unbelievers masquerade as "Believers" who say they are abiding in Christ but don't really know what that is and are willfully living in sin. Without holiness we will not see the Lord.

Salvation is not a commodity that you own. Salvation is a person that you must stay rightly related to. It is a daily relationship with Jesus Christ. It does not matter if you walked the aisle 25 years ago and got your "ticket punched", if you are not abiding in Christ TODAY. What happened 25 years ago, means nothing today, if you have walked away from the Lord.

Today is always the Day of Salvation!

A doctrine that tells you that you are saved and don't have to abide in Christ promotes a false security.

It is really quite simple. Don't walk away from the Lord, fall into unbelief and bitterness and harden your heart.

It's not about "losing" your salvation but about YOU hardening your heart and abandoning the Lord. He is always there for you, that is not the issue. We are the issue!

All the best,
Axehead

 

[veteran]

In the parable of the ten virgins (Matt.25), our Lord Jesus gave us solid proof that a believer on Him can... fall away, and He will shut the door on them. So men's humanist ideas about Christ and Christianity just ain't gonna' get 'er done. We can lie to ourselves about that all we want, but it's not going to change what He said. Not wanting to face up to what He said is like a little undisciplined child that keeps begging their parent in hopes they'll get their way.

 

[RichardBurger]

Here Is a scripture that I have not heard a great explination from by those who believe in the eternal security of a believer in Christ. The Word of God here is very plain here, but somehow people manage to twist it until it's true meaning is totally lost.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Here are some more from Hebrews.

Heb 12:15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hmm. Eternal security eh?

How about something from Jesus- for all you who don't think that we should trust the whole Bible-

Mathew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Here is Peter's take-

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Still think the doctrine of eternal security is heavily supported by scripture?

If you would like to respond to this forum topic I suggest not throwing out other scripture before adressing most if not all of the scripture that I have given.

Did I take this scripture out of context maybe? Should I smash my head against a concrete wall to better understand what he Bible is teaching here?

In my opinion you do not see that what is being said is that if you start to put your faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile yourself to God and then turn back to thinking you can reconcile yourself to God by what you do you have fallen from grace. In my opinion no child of God will ever turn back.

These scriptures were written because many who placed their faith in Jesus' work on the cross were being told that they have to still keep the law of Moses. Paul was continually at war with the believing Jews trying to get his converts to go back under the law

 

[veteran]

In my opinion you do not see that what is being said is that if you start to put your faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile yourself to God and then turn back to thinking you can reconcile yourself to God by what you do you have fallen from grace. In my opinion no child of God will ever turn back.

These scriptures were written because many who placed their faith in Jesus' work on the cross were being told that they have to still keep the law of Moses. Paul was continually at war with the believing Jews trying to get his converts to go back under the law

So, no matter WHAT one does against Christ, He will still save them? Not what He taught, for He taught blasphemy against The Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come. That can apply to a believer on Him just as much for a non-believer.

Apostle Paul DID NOT preach against following God's laws.

1 Tim 1:8
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
(KJV)


What Paul preached against was with SEEKING TO BE SAVED BY THE LAW. There's a huge... difference. The crept in unawares that converted to Christ were trying to get other believers to think to be justified and saved by following God's laws. God's law cannot save. Only God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ can save.

One of the works The Holy Spirit is to do in those who have believed on Jesus Christ is to write God's laws in our minds and in our hearts, per The New Covenant (Hebrews 8 & 10).

 

[7angels]

let me first say that axhead you are right on. you hit the nail on the head.

I think noone understands the Bible completly..which is why there is so many differant doctrines saying they are Biblical. I geuss we all have to wait and see when we get to the other side what the real truth is. I do not belive once you belived you always will belive becuase I have true life experiance that says other wise. To me the Bible seems to support both doctrines. That you have eternal security and that you may not as well. Who knows but God.

if we are able to hear and recognize the Holy Spirit and know how ask God for things then all we need to do is take the time to ask God to reveal the truth to us. if you know anything about God then you know that whatsoever we ask we shall receive. it is because most christians cannot hear and recognize the Holy Spirit's promptings that we fall into trouble. for the word teaches that everything that is God's is mine and everything that is mine is God's. we are the ones that limit God by what we allow. God has so much for us that we cannot even imagine but until we start too understand this then we will always be limited by our knowledge. the different doctrines came about from trying to interpret God's word according to man's understanding instead of just asking God who knows exactly what his word means.

In my opinion you do not see that what is being said is that if you start to put your faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross to reconcile yourself to God and then turn back to thinking you can reconcile yourself to God by what you do you have fallen from grace. In my opinion no child of God will ever turn back.

These scriptures were written because many who placed their faith in Jesus' work on the cross were being told that they have to still keep the law of Moses. Paul was continually at war with the believing Jews trying to get his converts to go back under the law

this is a sensitive subject and it comes down to how you define a child of God, true believer, and ect. if you are referring to a person who is Going after God then yes you are right and they cannot lose their salvation. but if you mean any and everyone who has ever been saved then you are wrong. the word is full of scripture that shows us this.

So, no matter WHAT one does against Christ, He will still save them? Not what He taught, for He taught blasphemy against The Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come. That can apply to a believer on Him just as much for a non-believer.

a person who is unsaved or saved and does not understand what he is doing cannot blasphemy against The Holy Spirit. grieve the Holy Spirit yes but not blasphemy the Holy Spirit. look at the context and you will see that who is being referred to are people who should know better. they were priests and ect.

 

[RichardBurger]

So, no matter WHAT one does against Christ, He will still save them? Not what He taught, for He taught blasphemy against The Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come. That can apply to a believer on Him just as much for a non-believer.

Apostle Paul DID NOT preach against following God's laws.

1 Tim 1:8
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
(KJV)


What Paul preached against was with SEEKING TO BE SAVED BY THE LAW. There's a huge... difference. The crept in unawares that converted to Christ were trying to get other believers to think to be justified and saved by following God's laws. God's law cannot save. Only God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ can save.

One of the works The Holy Spirit is to do in those who have believed on Jesus Christ is to write God's laws in our minds and in our hearts, per The New Covenant (Hebrews 8 & 10).

Veteran you, and many others, seem to equate sins of the flesh as turning away from Christ. I see them as turning men to Christ. If sins of the flesh turn men away from Christ then no one will ever be saved because everyone sins in the flesh.

The spirit that has been born of God does not sin - why! Because it is covered by the blood of Jesus on the cross. However the flesh is still sinful and will sin. Jesus came to save the sick. The sick can not save themselves by what they do. However, those that are saved are righteous in the spirit because they have the righteousness God has given them. It is called imputed righteousness. --- If I am saved from every sin in the world and not saved from my own sins of my flesh then I can not be saved. But the religious will never see this idea.

The blood Jesus shed on the cross was for me and all that will place their belief, faith, trust and confidence in it reconciling them to God. The shed blood is God's power to accept all that will believe His promise that it covers their sins of the flesh. It is my witness that I place all my belief, faith, trust, and confidence is God's work on the cross.

But the shed blood of Jesus is being taken out of the Christian religion and replaced with the works of men to be righteous before God. Not many, if any, posts today are about the shed blood. Most are about trying to be sinless.

 

[veteran]

a person who is unsaved or saved and does not understand what he is doing cannot blasphemy against The Holy Spirit. grieve the Holy Spirit yes but not blasphemy the Holy Spirit. look at the context and you will see that who is being referred to are people who should know better. they were priests and ect.

Yes, I'm aware of that, and that was part of my point. Yet God and His Christ will not be mocked. His Salvation is to those who 'believe' on Him, and then try to do what He said, walking in The Spirit.

Rom 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(KJV)

 

[RichardBurger]

Yes, I'm aware of that, and that was part of my point. Yet God and His Christ will not be mocked. His Salvation is to those who 'believe' on Him, and then try to do what He said, walking in The Spirit.

Rom 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(KJV)

""the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.""

Who gave the Spirit it's righteousness?

If the body is dead because of sin then can man make it become alive by not sinning? The truth is that all men sin in the flesh.

 

[veteran]

""the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.""

Who gave the Spirit it's righteousness?

If the body is dead because of sin then can man make it become alive by not sinning? The truth is that all men sin in the flesh.

All have been concluded in sin so that Salvation would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ, per Paul in Galatians. He then preached that also involves walking in The Spirit. And it means TRYING to follow what The Lord commanded us, even though we will always fall short of His Glory. That means the whole idea is for our spirit to overcome our flesh and be in control over our flesh, not the other way around. We do that by walking in The Spirit, even though our flesh will still cause us to slip up at times. When our flesh makes us slip up, we are to repent to Christ and ask forgiveness, and He cleanses us of the sin, as per Apostle John.

 

[RichardBurger]

All have been concluded in sin so that Salvation would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ, per Paul in Galatians. He then preached that also involves walking in The Spirit. And it means TRYING to follow what The Lord commanded us, even though we will always fall short of His Glory. That means the whole idea is for our spirit to overcome our flesh and be in control over our flesh, not the other way around. We do that by walking in The Spirit, even though our flesh will still cause us to slip up at times. When our flesh makes us slip up, we are to repent to Christ and ask forgiveness, and He cleanses us of the sin, as per Apostle John.

Defind what you think is walking in the Spirit. Is it walking trying to overcome sins of the flesh by your choices, by trying not to sin?

My opinion is that it is a person walking with belief, faith, trust and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover our sins of the flesh and thereby reconcile that person to God. PERIOD!

 

[veteran]

Defind what you think is walking in the Spirit. Is it walking trying to overcome sins of the flesh by your choices, by trying not to sin?

My opinion is that it is a person walking with belief, faith, trust and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover our sins of the flesh and thereby reconcile that person to God. PERIOD!

Paul defined the Biblical concept of walking in The Spirit per Galatians 5. And he gave comparisons to that walk in contrast to walking by the flesh. So I don't have to define it for you, he did already. And since you claim Paul's gospel is what Christians should accept and follow, then you would be hypocritical by not heeding what he said there.

 

[RichardBurger]

Paul defined the Biblical concept of walking in The Spirit per Galatians 5. And he gave comparisons to that walk in contrast to walking by the flesh. So I don't have to define it for you, he did already. And since you claim Paul's gospel is what Christians should accept and follow, then you would be hypocritical by not heeding what he said there.

I really like Galatians 5. But I do not see what you see in it. You see that we must stop sinning in the flesh by our choices and I do not.

Galatians 5
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
*
Note: In the above we see Paul exhorting his followers to resist going back under the law. Since we have been set free from the law we are not to go back under the bondage of the law.
*
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
*
Note: Paul is saying that if he is still preaching the law why does he suffer from the Judizers. The offense of the cross (verse 11) is that it does away with the Jewish law and substitutes grace. To this fact the Jews take offense.
*
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
*
Note: Paul confirms that we are under liberty. However he exhorts us to love our neighbor as ourselves.
*
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
*
Note: Paul has said that they can not do the things that they wish. So then walking in the Spirit is not trying to keep the law by not sinning.
*
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
*
Note: If we are placing our belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ shed blood we are not under the law. There is only two conditions that apply to man today, either he/she is under the law of sin or they have been set free.
*
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
*
Note: this is a condemnation of the flesh and confirmation that flesh shall not enter heaven.
*
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
NKJV
*
Note: If we are walking with our faith in Jesus’ work on the cross then we have crucified the flesh because we no longer place our faith in what it can do but in what God has already done.

 

[Axehead]

Christians talk about Grace, Faith, Salvation, Righteousness, Holiness as if they are static commodities that they obtained at some point in time and they now own regardless of their future life's orientation and conduct.

But as Joe Carson Smith notes in "Christian Standard" magazine (9,9,79),
"There is an unfortunate tendency to focus upon grace as a 'threshold factor' in the Christian life, limiting the concept of grace to the doctrine of conversion.....(we) tend to look upon grace as a past event in the Christian life. ... Most of the New Testament passages about grace do not deal with grace as a threshold factor in salvation. Rather, God's grace is presented as pervasive in the life of a Christian."

We think of SALVATION as a commodity that once we get IT (what is IT), we will never lose IT.

Remember the bumper sticker, "I FOUND IT", from the Campus Crusade campaign? What is the IT they were claiming to have found? Salvation? Eternal Life? The implication is that "salvation" is an IT; something, rather than Someone. Such is sloppy salvation terminology!

Do we have a preventative salvation, or an ongoing, dynamic, functional salvation which is Christocentric?

Are we just acquiring spiritual benefits? Salvation is not a "benefit" dispensed by a "benefactor." "Jesus is the dispenser of divine salvation and forgiveness." Such is a separated concept that separates salvation from the Savior, and creates a static view of salvation. Jesus does not dispense salvation like a bubble-gum dispenser; He does not dispense salvation like an airline ticket dispenser; Jesus is not like a medical dispensary dispensing the "gos-pill".

Salvation is only in the dynamic activity of the Savior. Jesus Christ IS salvation.

Salvation is not an entity, a commodity, a "package", a spiritual "goody"; Salvation is not a heavenly entrance pass, a ticket to heaven, an eternal life package. Salvation is not a "possession in my pocket'.

Evangelical theology has swung from a God-centered theology to a man-centered theology, and has wrenched "salvation" from the grace-activity of God, placing it into the hands of men, to be manipulated by men (or so they think).

So, if Salvation, Grace, Righteousness, Holiness is a PERSON and not commodities that we somehow acquired at some static point in time, then maybe a better question would be:

What happens when we stop abiding or refuse to abide in Christ rather than "can you lose your salvation."
(How can this happen? Root of bitterness, hardening of the heart, etc.)

There are no Biblical references that use the word "security" to refer to the Christian's relationship with Jesus Christ. "Eternal Security" is a theological concept and phrase originating in the Augustinian/Calvinistic theological system.

This theological system emphasizes God's sovereign action to the neglect, diminishing or denial of human responsibility.
Considering the words "eternal" and "security" we find:

Eternality is an attribute of God alone, never inherent in another and never dispensed as a commodity to be possessed by another.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

So, as long as one has the Son, it would seem they have eternal life. Right? Hey, look at this next verse.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

So, is "having the Son" a static or dynamic event and what happens when you stop abiding in the Son?

The eternality of God's character constitutes His life, salvation, inheritance, covenant, kingdom, etc.

When you think about the word “Security” in relationship with God, you realize that God is absolutely secure without reference to any other. But the opposite is not true. We are not absolutely secure without reference to any other. We are only secure as we are joined to Christ in a dynamic (not static) relationship. We then share in His security, but must be joined to or abiding in Him (who is SECURITY). Thus, being joined to Him, the Christian is secure (from fear, anxiety, care, risk, danger, loss, etc).

And being joined to Christ in abiding fellowship and having the dynamic life of Christ active in us, gives us Assurance. There is no assurance apart from abiding in Him. There is no security in man-made creeds or doctrines, only in a PERSON.

And the Christian must persevere (implies responsibility). We have an active role in being receptive to God’s continuing preserving grace.

Rom. 8:25 - "with perseverance we wait eagerly for it"
I Cor. 15:2 - "you are saved, if you hold fast the word preached..."
Col. 1:23 - "present you before Him...if you continue in the faith"
II Tim. 2:12 - "if we endure, we shall also reign with Him"
Heb. 10:39 - "those who have faith to the preserving of the soul"

Apostasy is to stand away from Jesus and renounce Him, having previously identified with Him.

I Tim. 4:1 - "some will fall away from the faith"
Heb. 3:12 - "falling away from the living God"
Heb. 6:4-6 - "tasted of heavenly gift and then fallen away"

According to the Scriptures (and Jesus) you can sever or terminate your identification with Jesus Christ. This first verse is the answer for the question, “what happens if you stop abiding in Christ”?

John 15:6 - "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away."
I Cor. 9:27 - "lest I should be disqualified"
Gal. 5:4 - "you have been severed from Christ…fallen from grace"
II Pet. 2:20,21 - "last state is worst than the first"


Eternity, is the ongoing expression of Christ in you, the character of God. This requires your ongoing participation in cooperation with the Eternal One.

Salvation is not an event, experienced by certain “procedures”. It is an ongoing process of the Life of the Spirit in us to conform us to the image of Christ and cause us to function as God intended us to in relationship with His Son and others. We are not “once saved”. We participate in salvation as we continually allow the saving activity of the Savior to be operative in us. This is only done by staying joined to Christ through abiding in Him.

Most of Christendom today has a static understanding of Christ rather than a living, dynamic understanding of His life within them. Christianity has been reduced to creeds, doctrines, belief systems, procedures and associations rather than CHRIST in US the HOPE of GLORY.

Axehead