1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Eternal Security

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Rollo Tamasi, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    26,255
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    ha, and the hits just keep comin', rofl

    do you not even have a Bible there bro
    or what
    thing is, see, tares are free too Heb, and they even get you high! :D
     
    Phoneman777 likes this.
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    26,255
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    a million plus walked under the blood and out of Egypt, Free; but only two made it to the PL, huh
     
    Pisteuo and amadeus like this.
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    10,761
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Precisely, but when people hear this they then want to divide what God was in the OT from what He is now. This is the God that never changes... except according to some He put us on easy street in the here and now once we have repented that first time. Hmmm? Consider that Joshua and Caleb made it into the Promised Land... but they had to go through all of the same trials as the rest of the million who failed the test. Is our God who no respecter of persons like that? I think not!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    Pisteuo and bbyrd009 like this.
  4. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The deceived mind conceives that a good tree won't produce any fruit...or will bring forth bad fruit...and if it tries to bring forth good fruit in gratitude for all the care bestowed upon it by the Husbandman, it ceases to be good.
     
  5. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    The deceived mind places believers back under the law,. preach another Gospel considered cursed Amen

    Gal 1:3-5 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    Gal 1:6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
     
  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The deceived mind teaches that those who do and teach God's law are exemplifying another Gospel, while those who break and teach others to break God's law are presenting the true gospel, which indeed is that "another Gospel" by which the Bible warns us not to be seduced.
     
    gadar perets likes this.
  7. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331


    The deceived mind accuses believers in Christ of breaking God's laws without obtaining sanctification, discipline, anointing and godly sorrow through the Holy Spirit. God does heal though

    Matt 8:16-17 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: “He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases.”
     
  8. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The deceived mind thinks he does God's will while breaking God's law.
    "I delight to do Thy will, O my God. Yea, Thy law is within my heart." Psalms 40:8
     
  9. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    The deceived mind thinks doing God's will is based on works, and we all know what the subtitle to Ezek 13 is.

    Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    You see, in order to do the will of God, you would have to be born of God first......

    1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
    1Jo 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
    1Jo 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
    1Jo 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

    Ezek 13

    “ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

    Matt 7

    15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
     
  10. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The deceived mind reads the plain text of Scripture which reveals God's will for every single one of us: "I delight to do THY WILL, O my God. Yea, THY LAW is within my heart." Psalms 40:8 ...and yet denies it as such. God wills that we by faith repent from love of self and sin and by the grace of the indwelling power of Christ turn to Him in love and obedience, but the deceived mind whose supposed love for God is actually love for sin and self is more wretched a soul than is the man dying of cancer who believes he is in perfect health.
     
  11. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    A deceived mind wouldn't know to read Galatians, :rolleyes:

    When I saw that they were not walking in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? 15We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile ‘sinners’ 16know that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law no one will be justified.

    17But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, does that make Christ a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18If I rebuild what I have already torn down, I prove myself to be a lawbreaker. 19For through the Law I died to the Law so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness comes through the Law, Christ died for nothing."
     
  12. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    A decieved mind wouldn't know that Paul is talking about doing away with the law as a means of obtaining salvation, and not doing away with our "reasonable service" obligation to the law, especially when he so clearly states that Christians are obligated to stop stealing, committing adultery, etc. Only a mind decieved by the devil would suggest that a Christian is free to break the Ten Commandments when the very reason for Jesus having to die in the first place is because of others breaking them.
     
  13. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    and after years and centuries of debating, ,the answer has never changed an was right there in front of us the whole time. its too scary to rest in what He done so we trust ourselves instead

    2Co 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

    Blessings
     
  14. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And after as many centuries, there are still those who worship God in vain, professing by mouth their love for Jesus but demonstrating by their rejection of His commandments that their hearts are far from Him, preferring the false doctrines of men who strengthen the hands of these deceived ones - with doctrines like OSAS - to continue in their wickedness by promising them life.

    Matthew
    15:7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.
    15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

    Ezekiel
    13:16 [To wit], the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and [there is] no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
    13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
     
  15. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    Ezek 13 is in reference to works salvation Phone, lol who is the rock in Matt 7:25

    Ezek 13

    “ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

    Matt 7

    15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
     
  16. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ezekiel's words in chapter 13 are crystal clear. He is denouncing false teachers who have made a breach in the "wall": God's law - and have tried to repair it with weak mortar: the commandments of men. He is denouncing false teachers who encourage the people to continue disregarding God's law by failing to warn them of the consequences of their course, but incredibly by promising them that doing so leads to life, both temporal and eternal -- much like OSAS does to deceived Christians.
     
  17. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    and how do you "save yourself" and become one of the righteous Phone...

    Ezek 13:22 Because you disheartened the righteous with your lies, when I had brought them no grief, and because you encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their lives,

    Acts 2:38-41 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and to your children and to all who are far off, to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.
     
  18. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You don't save yourself - Christ does that. Do you know what is the evidence that Christ has saved you?

    Obedience. Proof?

    "And we are His witnesses, and so also is the Holy Ghost, WHICH GOD GIVETH TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Acts 5:32 KJV​

    Likewise, disobedience is the evidence that a person is not saved, no matter that person insists OSAS is a legit doctrine.
     
  19. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    331
    and can u figure out , why, false prophets make believers feel broken and timid when their eternally secure..

    Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

    Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

    1 Jhn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

    ah yes, is it this bit..

    James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

    tim·id
    /ˈtimid/
    adjective
    adjective: timid; comparative adjective: timider; superlative adjective: timidest
    showing a lack of courage or confidence; easily frightened.
    "I was too timid to ask for what I wanted"
    synonyms: apprehensive, fearful, easily frightened, afraid, faint-hearted, timorous, nervous, scared, frightened, cowardly, pusillanimous, spineless; More

    Ez 13:22
    ka'ah: broken
    Original Word: כָּאָה
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: ka'ah
    Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-aw')
    Definition: to be disheartened or timid

    Ez 13:22
    chayah: live
    Original Word: חָיָה
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: chayah
    Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-yaw')
    Definition: to live

    Acts 2:40
    sózó: to save
    Original Word: σῴζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: sózó
    Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
    Definition: to save
    Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

    Holy Spirit baptism takes the fear of a foe,, and turns it in to a friend. God bless
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It isn't those of us who preach the hard truth "he that covereth his sin (the OSAS crowd) shall not prosper, but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sins shall have mercy" who make OSAS people "feel broken and timid" - it is their own stubborn refusal to turn from the sinful ecstasy they love so much to indulge, their stubborn refusal to obtain power from Christ to resist the devil until he flees from their presence, which makes them feel that way.

    That's why they invented the false security of OSAS - so they can have their sin and Jesus too and obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
     
Loading...